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bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 22, 2007 - 12:05pm PT
I just got back from visiting my brother in law in Coronado, Ca which is home to the Navy SEAL training base and also home to Naval bases supporting the Pacific Fleet. It seems like everywhere you turn on the island, there's a Navy seaman. It was quite humbling to be around these guys.

I got to see Sea Knight choppers dropping future SEALs into the beaches for exercises, F-18's buzzing our dinner tables after a day's training. It's quite humbling when you realize what these guys do compared to $hit we sit around worrying about.

Anyway, I just wanted to give a shout out to the most courageous, honorable, and deadly people on the planet. These guys don't go around bragging, in fact, part of their creed is to not seek recognition for their work. You probably never even hear about some of the things SEALs do, but they're there.

Since they choose not to be recognized, I'll do it for 'em...

God Bless the the U.S. Navy SEALs...you guys are the real deal.

UncleDoug

Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
Oct 22, 2007 - 12:18pm PT
The SEAL's and any person in a uniform of the US military needs to be given great respect.

It is the policy makers that need to be tarred and feathered and parraded down main street.

I also love the "non bragging"(wouldn't this be waking softly but carying a big stick) policy of the SEALS.


Too bas Jeff con't follow the fine example of these warriors.
Tomcat

Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
Oct 22, 2007 - 12:20pm PT
Can do !
Gene

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 12:20pm PT
Today the parents of Lt. Michael P. Murphy, a Navy SEAL, received his posthumous Medal of Honor for his actions in Afghanistan. The link is to a profile of Murphy in the NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/us/22medal.html?_r=1&th=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&emc=th&adxnnlx=1193080555-9QBWYw78BIVI7ErfkjDTTw

I request we keep our comments and opinions of the war off this thread.

GM


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2007 - 12:26pm PT
I agree Gene. This is to honor these selfless warriors.

I did hear about the Medal of Honor ceremony. I agree with the sentiments Doug expressed. All of our military forces deserve respect, and I do respect them.

Evertime I hear about a SEAL going doing though, I know he did so doing something unimaginable to most. A rare breed that we are lucky to have protecting us.
UncleDoug

Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
Oct 22, 2007 - 12:27pm PT
"I request we keep our comments and opinions of the war off this thread. "

Gene,

If there was no war, this thread would not exist!
And there would be no need to pay tribute to warriors posthumously.

Sad day, every day that a warrior dies in combat.
Gene

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 12:33pm PT
Doug,

I could not agree more with what you said. I just hope that this thread stays on topic and does't turn into a pissing match about US policy. Let's respect the warriors regardless of how we feel about the war.

GM
fattrad

Mountain climber
GOP Convention
Oct 22, 2007 - 12:39pm PT
UncleDoug,

I'm a graduate of the largest and finest law enforcement training academy in the world. I've seen tours of duty in South Los Angeles (shot at), West Hollywood and Malibu. Trained in self defense, persuasive interrogation techniques, small arms, chemical weapons, etc. I'll give a slight nod to the SEALS though.


Jody's evil twin
Salathiel

Trad climber
South Beach, FL
Oct 22, 2007 - 01:15pm PT
I worked with a few of the SEALs when i was in the Coast Guard. They had a training facility in Little River where they learned to pilot the zodiac landing craft. We were constantly towing them after they would run aground sometimes ten and twelve feet on shore. They were always grateful and helpful as hell and would buy us beers for our trouble.

Once though, I watched one of them jump from waist deep water into our 41', over the gunnels (Sides) and land on the deck. All of us about S&*t our pants.

I learned that the one thing that separates the elite forces from the regular troops is that they are down for anything at any time. You could turn to a SEAL or a Ranger or a PJ or dare I say, even a rescue swimmer and say "Hey, lets ride our bikes from Death valley into Whitney Portal." They would say "sure" and be ready to do it or die trying. It is a constant state of readiness.

I have always admired this.

Blur
Bart Fay

Social climber
Redlands, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 01:37pm PT
My big Bro.
UDT-BUDs Class 98 (Circa 1978)
SEAL Team Six - Plank Owner.
20 Years service.
Allegedly, spent most of a week in a Sierra snow cave with Jay Smith.
Retired out of cold weather training base on Kodiak.
Currently Fish & Wildlife officer in Alaska and making it difficult to poach bear.

Much to be said about those guys. Many stories. Good guys.
Jody

Mountain climber
Templeton, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 02:09pm PT
"I'm a graduate of the largest and finest law enforcement training academy in the world."

I didn't know you went to the CHP academy....cool.

I agree, the military deserves our utmost respect as do the families of those who are gone for long periods of time. I thank them every time I see one. The other day, tears came to the eyes of a guy when i told him how much I appreciate his sacrifice. Those folks don't hear it enough.
Sewellymon

climber
.....in a single wide......
Oct 22, 2007 - 02:32pm PT
Tarbuster-- time to regale us ...you've previously written about the time you guided a couple SEALs up the E Face of the Column?

i remember in Fall of '81, EE was guiding a group of SEALs out at JT for the week (E was doing it for Don Wilson's CA School of Mountaineering). Those SEALs had a certain gleam in their eyes. And they could outdrink the climbers.
UncleDoug

Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
Oct 22, 2007 - 02:34pm PT
Gene,

Agreed!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 22, 2007 - 02:50pm PT
Climbing at base of EL Cap once with my girlfriend at the time, A bunch of Seals went by with their shirts off. The girlfriend was drooling. I teased her about it a tiny bit and she said "Yeah, and if Sports Illustrated were doing the swimsuit shoot here you wouldn't drool" Ok, No argument or double standard from me.

I think it's possible to support the troops without supporting the war.

Just don't use the troops as the argument to support the war cause needless fighting doesn't help them and they can't ask to come home. We have to do it for them.

peace

karl
Bart Fay

Social climber
Redlands, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:22pm PT
>>>Just don't use the troops as the argument to support the war cause needless fighting
>>>doesn't help them and they can't ask to come home. We have to do it for them.

---keep our comments and opinions of the war off this thread.

Karl, How'z about trying a little harder, huh ?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:36pm PT
Sorry, if you want to honor a group, you have to be concerned about them getting killed for no good reason. All I'm saying that if you respect these guys, let's have real concern for their welfare and not just rally around the patriotic image of their heroism which has been used to often to squelch criticism of the war.

No more. When these guys stop dying for a illegal, immoral wars, I'll be able to let the subject of war rest separate from the warriors.

PEace

karl
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:38pm PT
Karl might wisely use the edit button.

Read Marcus Luttrell's acount in "Lone Survivor".
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316067598/bookstorenow99-20
Lt. Murphy (Previously mentoined in this thread) was his friend and commrade in arms. He made the ultimate sacrifice by walking into enemy fire to save his men.

Truely amazing. A big thanks to those ensuring our freedom!
Jody

Mountain climber
Templeton, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:38pm PT
Karl goes by different standards than the rest of us Theron.

Thanks for the link!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:41pm PT
Sorry Moses, the issue is what I stated above.

You say these guys are ensuring our freedom. However, they can only do that if used for causes and missions which do that. Unfortunately, Iraq has done just the opposite and the whole wartime footing has been used to take our freedom away domestically.

I won't shut up about it. We are misusing and abusing these soldiers, poisoning them with depleted Uranium, and failing on giving them proper health care for their injuries when they get back. Calling a politics-free feelgood thread benefits the war but not the soldiers.

Remember Tilman. He was a hero but you can't just pat him on the back without taking on the system that screwed him.

peace

karl

Edit: Note that I've said my peace and the sentence that ya'll called me on was only a hint, much like the opposite hints above it supporting the war. I don't need to go on posting on this thread unless ya'll want to argue about it. Go on celebrating the sacrifice and the Seals if you like.
Jody

Mountain climber
Templeton, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:42pm PT
Like I said.
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:47pm PT
Karl,
Hmmm....fer a smart feller you seemed to have missed the point.

Jody,
If you want to borrow it I might be able to arrange it. Excellent book.
Jody

Mountain climber
Templeton, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 04:51pm PT
Theron, I'll just buy it, it isn't that expensive. thanks.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 22, 2007 - 05:04pm PT
Drifting back towards Bluering's original theme, here's another photo from the wayback machine. 1991 this time and you all know where. Fellow on right is criminology prof Alex Alvarez, center is The Doctor back when I just knew him as Dave; left is Navy SEAL Dave Lockett, a swell guy & partner who certified both of my young kids in scuba.

randomtask

climber
North fork, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 05:20pm PT
I think Karl Baba is making a good point...supporting troops and supporting a war aren't always the same thing.

I think SEALs are bad asses. What they do is incredible and they deserve every ounce of honor we can give them. Karl isn't demeaning them or any other soldiers. WTF is wrong with what he said?? Except SEALs is spelled SEALs, not Seals.

In fresno there is a house that has "I support my country right or wrong" spray painted on it. Is there only black and white in this thread as well??
-JR
Gene

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 06:02pm PT
Random,

"I think Karl Baba is making a good point...supporting troops and supporting a war aren't always the same thing."

Why don't you go back and read the majority of the posts in this thread.

Gene
The user formerly known as stzzo

Trad climber
The moon, baby!
Oct 22, 2007 - 06:15pm PT
I support my country right or wrong.

And they probably don't even understand the implications of that statement.
The user formerly known as stzzo

Trad climber
The moon, baby!
Oct 22, 2007 - 06:28pm PT
I'm with Karl. Honoring / respecting them includes standing up for them when you think they're getting screwed. If you believe that they are, and you keep you mouth shut, then you're not giving the most respect that you can.

They are badasses indeed.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 06:56pm PT
Most of you guys have no idea what SEALs do or are capable of.
I have a friend that I worked with for 15 years who graduated from one of the first BUDs classes in the 60's as a sniper, then spent 2 tours in Nam.

You would absolutely not believe some of the things they had to endure.

Did you know that when you have to crawl 200 yards through elephant grass, with VC mere feet away, it can take days to crawl that distance...and guess what, if you've got to take a sh#t, you do it in your pants or risk detection.
That's what it takes some times to get the shot, when the target is a very well protected officer.


That's hardcore.


Much respect to the SEALs.
randomtask

climber
North fork, CA
Oct 22, 2007 - 08:31pm PT
Gene,
I read every post.


I think SEALs are bad ass. I've read a lot of books by SEALs...they are bad asses. BY SEALs and not ABOUT SEALs.
BUD/S alone sounds like hell. I don't think I could make it through that. The lack of sleep, I'd get over, but the freezing cold you endure in Hell Week. Hell no!!

Whatever, I'm not bashing them OR taking anything away from them.

Why can't Karl make those statements??? In this time, with this war, People llike Karl need to speak those things that others feel are inapropriate regardless of what thread it is on. Oh and yeah, blah,blah,blah I missed your point and blah,blah,blah, you missed mine. But this obviously isn't the time or place.
-JR
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 08:37pm PT
Thats one word there Crowley...Sacrebleu!
WBraun

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 08:38pm PT
Is that what makes a bad ass? You sh'it in your pants?

Hahahaha

So then all climbers are bad asses too? They all seem to say they've sh'it in their pants too.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 08:44pm PT
Not bad ass enough Werner?
How about having poisonous snakes crawl over and around you for hours,
while you can't move a muscle or make a sound?
How long could you do that?

Try crawling on your stomach, an inch at a time, and straightening the flattened grass with your toes so as not to leave a trail in the grass.
Oh and "sleep" is out of the question....you can't take a nap in the middle of a mission in enemy territory..
So while laying flat on your stomach, you lift your head up off the ground, close your eyes and squeeze in a 3 second nap.
The idea is that as soon as you fall asleep, your face will smack into the ground and wake you up!






john hansen

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 08:44pm PT
I just finished the book "Lone Survivior" and have the utmost respect for those guys. It does make you wonder thou.. why did the guy that won the Medal of Honour,die, exposing himself to fire while trying to make a 'cell phone call' to try to save his unit.

Why dont these guys have radio's that work? Couldn't they use 'sat' phones?
These guys are the most elite fighting force in the world, but they cant make a phone call?

I read another book called 'Roberts Ridge' and it seems sometimes these elite forces are good at stirring up hornet's nest's. In this one 12 or 15 guys landed on top of a mountain that just happen to have a hundred Taliban fighters dug in on it.

They pulled up to get away from the RPG,s and one guy fell out the back,,, by the time it was over three helicoptor's had gone down and they had suffered many casualty's.

Same in Mogodishu,, the "Delta Force " guys had to run out of the city???? Wheres the calvary?

All due respect for the special forces, they should get the backup they need.

SNAFU... situation normal, all fu#ked up..


WBraun

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 08:53pm PT
Let me tell ya.

I worked some 5 Survival of the Fittest shows.

The Navy Seals came in last.

The climbers kicked their asses bad.

Now I know one Valley Park Ranger who became a seal, he was a climber too! When he wanted to join they said he was too old but he could try out anyways and then they thought they'd eliminate him in a few days.

He was in the top of the class and they gave him special permission to go on and become a true Navy seal.

Park Ranger becomes Navy seal and was top in the class .....
coiler

Trad climber
The Rock Monkey Ranch
Oct 22, 2007 - 09:01pm PT
You don't have to be a Navy Seal to go land, sea, and air. I do it all the time. I ride my 750 motorcycle to Columbia airport (O22) where I jump in my '61 Cessna 150A, I then fly to Watsonville airport (WVI)... head out to Moss Landing and sail the "dutchman", my 27' sloop, out on Monterey Bay.
There you have it; Land, Sea, and Air (in one day). You don't have to get sh#t on by some DI, get sent to f*#ked up Iraq, or be GW's pawn to make it happen. Easy Money Bitches!
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 09:05pm PT
Werner, don't you get it?
It's not about fitness level...it's how much can to take physically and mentally and not give up or quit.
WBraun

climber
Oct 22, 2007 - 09:09pm PT
"Werner, don't you get it?"

Don't be so sure.

Never underestimate ..........
The user formerly known as stzzo

Trad climber
The moon, baby!
Oct 22, 2007 - 09:43pm PT
A lot of climbers are badass, too.

My grandmother shits in her pants. She must be badass.

Werner...

No matter what you say, SEALs are hardcore.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 10:13pm PT
Ok, one more thing....

Most people think that the SEALs are like Delta Force, whose missions are generally hostage rescue/precision strike force etc...

Nope.

For the vast majority of SEAL missions, the point of the mission is to gather intelligence data, but to NOT be seen by or engage the enemy at all.
Being spotted or engaging the enemy in a firefight would be considered a failure.
Missions are generally deep behind enemy lines and support is not an option.
The teams are usually dropped miles from the objective and sneak in, then sneak out, without firing a shot.
They do not go on offensive missions.
If they are firing at the enemy it is usually only to cover their evac, which is also typically quite a ways away from the objective.
So if guns are blazing, something has gone wrong.


Hey Bart,
I believe SEAL Team 6 did not officially exist when your bro was on.
Was he on Team 6 when they went and got Noriega?
I know a guy who was on 6 then.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 10:39pm PT
Believe me, we had guys over there that looked like Iraqi's,
blending in with the population, just waiting for the green light to put a bullet in his head..
We had them there in the first gulf war too. So did the Brits.
But remember, the US doesn't officially do assassination,
and once the war broke out, Saddam took extreme measures to
make sure his location was kept secret.
He was veeery worried about being nabbed by the US.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 10:47pm PT
You think we should have assassinated him before the war?
Hahaha!
OMG, so then you'd be going on and on about "Dubya, the cold blooded murderer!"

Riiiiight.


BTW, I meant before the war. We had spies gathering intel way before the sheite went down.
Do you seriously think we didn't?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 22, 2007 - 10:54pm PT
Come on Shack, I thought this thread wasn't supposed to be about the war. Since you bring it up, I'll say that the war had nothing to do with Saddam if we couldn't also bring our troops there, establish a presence, and orchestrate a 'friendly' government there.

After all, Saddam offered to step down and leave to another Arab country if he could bring a billion dollars with him. We told him to shove off. That would have saved some soldiers and cash right there.

peace

Karl
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Oct 22, 2007 - 11:03pm PT
Karl, I didn't bring up Saddam, Crowley did...
but your right, I shouldn't have acknowledged his lame post.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 22, 2007 - 11:47pm PT
Well at least the semi-off topic remarks in an off-topic thread keep it bumped.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:02am PT
"His final mission was on June 28, 2005, when he led a four-man Seal unit searching for a Taliban leader behind enemy lines. The Americans were spotted about 24 hours after being dropped in a mountainous stretch of eastern Afghanistan’s Kunar Province, according to the Navy. A firefight erupted. The Americans, vastly outnumbered, took cover in the steep slopes as the batted raged for more than two hours.

But then, according to Hospital Corpsman Marcus Luttrell, the unit’s only survivor that day, Lieutenant Murphy made his way toward the exposed ridge between the mountains, making him an easy target. “I was cursing at him from where I was,” he recalled in an interview. “I was saying, ‘What are you doing?’ Then I realized that he was making a call. But then he started getting hit. He finished the call, picked up his rifle and started fighting again. But he was overrun.”

The call placed by Lieutenant Murphy led American commanders to dispatch a small rescue force that included an MH-47 Chinook helicopter with eight Seals members and eight Army special operations soldiers. But a rocket-propelled grenade struck the slow-moving helicopter as it approached, killing all 16 men aboard. Lieutenant Murphy and two others in his unit were killed in the firefight. Corpsman Luttrell escaped, and took refuge in a village until he was rescued several days later.

Corpsman Luttrell and the other two men who were killed, Gunner’s Mate 2nd Class Danny P. Dietz and Sonar Technician 2nd Class Matthew G. Axelson, all received the Navy Cross.
"

All-in-all this sounds like a high-risk, but poorly resourced and supported DA operation plan given it was in the Pashtun-dominated northeastern Kunar province right on the border with Pakistan. It was deep into the heart of enemy-controlled territory. On a CSAR hot extraction like that I would think AC-130 gunship support would have been all but mandatory to really have had a good chance of success. Who knows whether one was planned to be available or not. In the end, though, I can't help but think this unfortunate event was at least partly a result of spreading our resources too thin over both Afghanistan and Iraq. To my way of thinking, that this was a SEAL mission at all, rather than an Army SPEC OPS one, speaks volumes to that in and of itself. Heros one and all, but it's hard not to believe this was a case where we weren't necessarily "supporting our troops" to the best of our ability.
Bart Fay

Social climber
Redlands, CA
Oct 23, 2007 - 12:08am PT
Shack, IIRC, My Brother was done standing up Six by then and had trained several
of the guys that got misused going for Noriega at that airfield.
He went back to Coronado to instruct for a couple years and then a couple more
at One, next door.

You're not gunna hear me saying that those guys are "Bad Asses".
But, each one I met was exceptional, once you got to know him.
And every one would have filled some place in "our" cherished perception
of the hard core climber lifestyle. Tarbuster to Largo...
Sorry, the Yabo's washed out. I met a few of them, too.

You should have seen the old maroon Dodge Power Wagon (50s SUV) thing that
they drove back to VA Beach when the got the call to Six. Long hair, beards,
bandanas, paisley vests even. You'd have bet they had several kilos in the back.

Wonder what they showed any Highway Patrol that chose to stop them.
Security clearances, stowed weapons, and even a little respect is my guess.

Course, I was a 16 year old kid and even then, cried that night watching them drive off
to begin their next set of adventures. I was not real psyched about him being shot at.

And Werner, we get it. You've self-actualized beyond all the rest of us.
Your depth of understanding transcends.

He's just my Brother.

Edit: And he's probably a lot like you guys.
Salathiel

Trad climber
South Beach, FL
Oct 23, 2007 - 09:32am PT
They are men, doing a job. I have interacted with a lot of them, and can say that they are as human as each and every one of us. there are climbers I know that remind me of the special ops guys I have met in that they have the same ability to shut out the noise when the volume gets turned up.

In the Olympics, no one seems to care that you were the fourth best - he11, even silver and bronze medalists are considered slackers by the lethargic masses that observe what they do.

With climbers and SEALs and Olympic and professional athletes, or anyone, we are always critical of those in the elite because we expect so much from them and hang so much on them that when OUR expectations are not met, we criticize them.

We must remember though, we are all men (and women) and that is all we can be.

Note to Werner: except you of course - you have transcended all of us ;)

Blur
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2009 - 09:30am PT
Here's an interesting study into why some people are better suited for the rigors of Special Forces training and less succeptable to severe combat stress.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/184156/page/1
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2009 - 06:12am PT
Navy Seals save the day...again.

I was wondering what was taking so long for the Seals to resolve this thing. Nice job, Seals.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gB7YMEDuCwwY9ncDOtPAkEI4-H2wD97HDPE80
The Chief

Trad climber
From the Land where Mogols still roam!
Apr 13, 2009 - 07:49am PT
It's always interesting to read and hear the "Civ" Communities perspective of the Frog gig.

Trust me, it's a bunch of dudes that just want to do their best and their job.

Karl's story about the shirtless Frogs at the base of the Captain.... funny. Most Frogs are common looking folks with a big heart and spirit of any Top Warrior. Glory seeking is not in the vocab. There's many a Frog, Delta or PR dude out there that ya'll would never imagine are part of the tight familia of Spec Warriors.

PS: Looks don't make ya a Frog or any Specwar Warrior for that case. It's ones Spirit, Focus, Dedication to one another, the assignment and Intensity.
coz

Trad climber
California
Apr 13, 2009 - 08:20am PT
I have worked with the DOD for twenty years, many of those years with Navy operators. I have also climb and been amongst the most elite climbers in the world. I knew Neil, Mike and many other who have been hurt or killed.

The Seals are tough, as tough as anyone of us, by a long stretch, but more impressive is their job serves a higher purpose than their own glory.

In all the years, I have work proudly with them, I have never heard an argument about any war, they just serve and they don't need to say anymore. I think many people do not realize the world is not a perfect place, that bad people exists, and we need warriors and heros (someone who does something greater than themselves).

Many of them are great climbers, but are too busy defending our freedoms and supporting their families to do more than a few weeks a year. I think everyone on this forum could learn from that kind of selflessness.



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2009 - 09:02am PT
There is a petition to help 3 Navy Seals. Take a look at it and sign it. This is a bull$hit case against them!

http://www.indianadan.com/savetheseals

The terrorist they captured was the rat who burned and hung 4 Americans in Al Anbar province.

Here's the story;
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/58169
pc

climber
East of Seattle
Dec 9, 2009 - 09:40am PT
If they didn't f*#k up, they'll be fine. That story you linked doesn't map to the charges though. Seems a lot was left out.

I've got a buddy who's a former SeAL. Good, scary guy. They put up with and deal with a lot of sh#t I can't even imagine. Hope everything works out okay for them. I can't stand to see soldiers on trial. Generals, Admirals, beauracrats, fine.
WBraun

climber
Dec 9, 2009 - 09:43am PT
Navy Seals

On land, top conditioned climbers always kick the seals asses.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2009 - 09:45am PT
Here's more of the story;

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/navy-seals-fallujah-blackwater.html
Jason Torlano

Social climber
Dec 9, 2009 - 09:51am PT


I have been all around the world in the Army and as a Contractor and the Military has done me right from the start of my service to the end. and the people we "U.S" have helped is amazing. Karl you should see the look in the peoples eyes when they are free and can walk down the street. My friends who have been killed or injured have all been taken care of. Stop watching CNN. Karl if you want to see how good we are doing in Afganistain take a trip to Kabul, Panshir valley etc and see how many people say thank you. War is ugly. Sometimes it is the only option for freedom which many Americans take for granted. You can not truly appreciate your freedom until you have it taken from you.
FeelioBabar

Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
Dec 9, 2009 - 10:03am PT
Who fuggin cares about some ghey survival of the fittest shows.

Climbing doesn't mean sh#t either. It's a self serving wankfest compared to what these amazing warriors do selflessly for us all, every day.

Coz nailed it.

Carry on.

Son of a SEAL.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 9, 2009 - 10:07am PT
Maybe this isn't the thread for it Jason, but you brought it up.

I confined my comments in this thread to Iraq, which was not a justified war. It's not up to us to bomb countries into accepting the freedom we think they should want. Iraq is still not better off than it was, and God only knows when it will be. Over a hundred folks died from bombs just yesterday in Bagdad. You think passing dominance from Shiites to Sunnis is really worth a trillion dollars, 2 million refugees fleeing from their homes and haven't returned, and not to mention untold thousands dying, when these guys never attacked us? If you'd like to get get permanently injured over there to change Iraqi tribal politics, perhaps I respect that but wish to protect others from that fate.

Afghanistan? The US top soldier says we're losing there, after 8 years, losing, and much of the country is a no-go zone after all this time. Soviets lost there too and they had more to lose.

http://tinyurl.com/yztpxcd

"This is the most dangerous time I've seen growing up the last four decades in uniform," Adm Mike Mullen told audiences of soldiers and marines, some of whom are weeks away from flying to conflict.

"We are not winning, which means we are losing and as we are losing, the message traffic out there to [insurgency] recruits keeps getting better and better and more keep coming..."In the long run, it is not going to be about killing Taliban," he told the marines at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina. "In the long run, it's going to be because the Afghan people want them out."

So tell me, if the Afghans (who everybody says are tough as nails,) wanted what we are offering, and we have all the powerful weapons, how come the country has such huge areas under Taliban control? Doesn't add up, a weakly armed minority does not dominate a powerfully armed Majority.

Nobody likes their invader. Sure some will say thank you. Some will mean it cause they were on the outs with the old power and some say it because you're the guys with the new power.

Guys who serve in the military sometimes die in their service and often are gravely injured. We need politicians who only put them in harms way for serious and honest reasons

PEace

Karl

Coz wrote

"In all the years, I have work proudly with them, I have never heard an argument about any war, they just serve and they don't need to say anymore. I think many people do not realize the world is not a perfect place, that bad people exists, and we need warriors and heros (someone who does something greater than themselves)."

Yup, the military folks themselves are not inclined or even allowed to call bullshit on the wars that politicians send them to. We have to do it or we let down those who we are asking to die for us. It's cheap to laud the soldiers without defending them from unwise conflicts or being contaminated with DU for that matter.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2009 - 10:20am PT
Admiral Mullen is a f*#king disgrace to people fighting in Afghanistan. I heard that whole speech. What a dick!

First lower morale and then insinuate the mission is futile. This to Marines preparing to deploy.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 9, 2009 - 10:34am PT
All people who serve should be given respect and honor no matter if they are an E-1 or all the way to 4 star generals, no matter if they are lowly dish washer cooks or elite Rangers, Special Forces, SEALS, or what have you.

However, good people can go bad. Erik Prince Blackwater/Xe case in point. Also there are high-level trained assassins in the ranks right now, and these operations are ultra black-op secret. Case in point those who were there to back-up and shoot MLK Jr. if the designated assassin didn't do it. And another who confessed to assassinations and taking out our own service men who stood against these dark powers within the government and Armed Forces. The one Navy SEAL who was an assassin and who was an S-4 sentry at Area 51, Groom Lake, Papoose Lake, in Nevada comes to mind. I'll have to find the links to that and post it.

Yes, we have secret assassins, and they even answered to the devil himself, Dick Cheney, but then you guys all know that right?

Should we honor these individuals who do such evil and wickedness?

I don't think so. They are traitors and their acts are acts of treason.

Good people can go bad in a big way.
Jason Torlano

Social climber
Dec 9, 2009 - 10:34am PT
Karl We will never agrea with each other I respect your opinion. Admiral Mullen is a politician not a warrior. My hat and thanks go out to the families of the brave and talented special operation soldiers of America who give their lives daily for our freedom.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2009 - 10:42am PT
The petition again.

http://www.indianadan.com/savetheseals

and the story;
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/navy-seals-fallujah-blackwater.html
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 9, 2009 - 10:50am PT
Thanks Jason

I respect your opinion as well and particularly since you've been there.

Always happy to agree to disagree and wish to maintain my respect of those in the service while holding the politicians to their word.

Now you called a military man a politician (and at that high level, he may be heavily influenced) but that just goes to show that politics affects the welfare of the troops, which is my beef.

PEace

Karl
ME Climb

Social climber
Behind the orange Curtain
Dec 9, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
Bluering for bringing this topic up:

HOO YAAAA!
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Dec 9, 2009 - 06:31pm PT
What if?

The worst paranoid fears of right-wing Americans have been realized.

President Obama has ordered 30,000 troops to go to Venezuela to help Hugo Chavez create a socialist utopia.

But you wouldn't want to talk about that.

You'd just want to talk about how bad-ass those SEALs are.

They'll be risking it all, and some will die fighting against the Venezuelan conservatives and moderates that pose no danger to us.

But let's not talk about that.

As we spend our human and monetary treasure, let's talk about how much we respect our warriors while we show them by sending them to fight for a socialist demagogue.

Of course sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight for organized crime and drug traffickers is an even better way to show our respect, right?

But let's just talk about respect.
General Ripper

climber
GnarthWest
Dec 10, 2009 - 10:37am PT
"I never joined the army because "at ease" never seemed that easy to me. It seemed rather uptight, still. I do not relax by putting my arms behind my back and parting my legs slightly, that does not equal ease to me. At ease is not being in the military. I'm eased bro, cause I'm not in the military."

-Mitch Hedberg
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 10, 2009 - 11:04am PT
Nice post Wanda

It's always good to sample the shoe on the other foot

If more people looked at both sides of each coin, we'd have to send soldiers to fight less often

Peace

Karl
Jingy

Social climber
Flatland, Ca
Dec 10, 2009 - 12:49pm PT
yeah... I'm with the "Support Our Troops" side of this debate (is it that yet?)

I cannot support the system that sends good human beings off to do whats best for business under the guise of "spreading democracy", or even for the betterment of the business classes", not even to "growth" reasons....




Plus, there is no honor once one of these warriors comes back home....


Don't even take my word for it.... More and more often I'm hearing about suicide being one of the leading causes of casualties on the Armed Forces.... I wonder why that could be? I wonder what kind of situation is a warrior in that would lead so many to off themselves while in the armed forces? hmmmm.. nobody wants to say that there is a problem within the system, and offer up possible solutions to the problem.. they just keep telling me to support my troops.. then tell me to shut up and don't ask questions....


my 2Cents....

no need to offer a refund neither
wildone

climber
GHOST TOWN
Dec 10, 2009 - 12:51pm PT
Juan, you're a f*#king moron. The only reason the united states would send 30,000 troops to Venezuela is to participate in a coup. Obama is no socialist, he's a populist liar. He's MUCH more right-wing than any of us who voted for him would like.
Keep drinking that Fox news Kool-aid. They get advertising dollars by keeping their viewership up, which is accomplished by creating controversy where there isn't one, keeping those with an over-developed reptilian brain foaming at the mouth. As an example, "czars". OMG ROFLMFAO.
First "Czar" appointed by Reagan, "Czar" program greatly expanding by W, but now that Glen Beck shits disinformation into their willing ears, it's suddenly a big deal.
People are such gullible, brain-dead sheep.

As for Afghanistan, I'm finding hard to understand how when George W. was in office, anyone who questioned in any way how we deploy our military resources was labeled as "Hating America", and "anti-freedom"., Butnow that Obama wants to finish choking down the sh#t-sandwich that Bush created, it's suddenly "Patriotic" for all the right-wingers to be calling for the troops to come home.
Care to explain that for me?

Me: Pro-military, anti war, pro-diplomacy, anti pre-emptive strike.
wildone

climber
GHOST TOWN
Dec 10, 2009 - 12:58pm PT
Jingy, you're on the money. My best friend since I was 7, just completed his tour in Fallujah as a Force Recon marine. His account of military life is somewhat shocking.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Dec 10, 2009 - 01:07pm PT
FATRAD,

I spent 20 years in South Central and East LA without a gun, your a wimp.
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Dec 10, 2009 - 01:40pm PT
Wildone,

1. Wanda is not juan/jeff.

2. You need to work on your reading comprehension.

wildone

climber
GHOST TOWN
Dec 10, 2009 - 03:13pm PT
I always thought you were a pseudonym of Jeff's. Sorry for that. As for my reading comprehension, please elucidate.
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Dec 10, 2009 - 03:25pm PT
I agree with all your positions as you stated them . . . except the one about being a moron.

Some tried to control/limit the comments to this thread to oorahs.

My point was that they would not want the comments so limited if they felt SEALs' and other warriors' sacrifices were being disrespected by sending them to fight for what they would consider a needless war, against our best interests.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
Wanda, thanks for shitting all over my thread that was supposed to be about Navy SEALS, not your personal feelings regarding war.

WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Dec 10, 2009 - 05:15pm PT
You're welcome!

If you just want to have a circle jerk--oooh, heroic and bold . . . aaah, so brave and daring . . . uuuuugghhnn, so tough and badass--I don't think that really shows true respect or appreciation.


The SEALs don't operate in a vacuum; they perform all their bad-assedness where OUR government sends them. The best way to SHOW our respect for their sacrifices is by calling our government to account for wasting their heroism unnecessarily.

A warrior who fights and dies in a needless war is still a hero, but if you support such a waste of heroism with your mindless prattle and jacking, you're a villain.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2009 - 05:42pm PT
but if you support such a waste of heroism with your mindless prattle and jacking, you're a villain.


Look, dickhead!!!

This was a thread about SEALS and how disciplined and honorable they are. NOT about wars and whether or not SEALS want to be there. YOU added that dimension to it!

You chose to bring your disdain for the current wars into a thread that honored SEALS. They do much more than fight in Afghan/Iraqi conflicts.

Asshole!

Usually you apologize for hijacking a thread too. But I don't expect that from trash like you.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 10, 2009 - 05:48pm PT
There will always be a need for someone to take out the trash.



We are fortunate that those, so able, step up to the task.
WBraun

climber
Dec 10, 2009 - 05:51pm PT
This was a thread about SEALS and how disciplined and honorable they are. NOT about wars and whether or not SEALS want to be there.

Yeah .... !!!!!! LOL

Now ya all STFU and say nice things about these bad ass boys or say nothin at all.

Climbers still can kick their asses on land though :-)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2009 - 06:07pm PT
Now ya all STFU and say nice things about these bad ass boys or say nothin at all.

Werner, I don't see how anyone could say a bad thing about SEALS. Am I missing something?

You keep comparing them to how they can't climb like a badass like yourself, can you drop out of a plane at 90,000 feet and open your chute at low altitude?

Can you drop a terrorist holding a US captive firing from one bobbing ship to another accurately, and complete the mission? 3 shots 3 kills at a couple hundred yards from ships bobbing in the sea?
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Dec 10, 2009 - 06:10pm PT
Nobody has said anything bad about the seals. Some just have a different idea of what it takes to show respect.
WBraun

climber
Dec 10, 2009 - 08:10pm PT
Bluering -- "You keep comparing them to how they can't climb like a badass like yourself"

Just for you;

Did I mention anything about climbing? Nope.

Are you putting words into peoples mouths ? Yes

I said "On land"

And just What does this really mean? Is your head still spinning trying grasp what that means?

In "Survival of the fittest" all the bad ass military guys were left in the dust by the climbers.

There were some tough events in there and climbing wasn't one of em.

When comparing shooting, toughness under fire, hand to hand combat and all that stuff, they will destroy you.

But you get the idea ... ?

Or you just don't.



Jingy

Social climber
Flatland, Ca
Dec 10, 2009 - 08:23pm PT
Wildone - Tell it like it is, bro!!!! Holy cow.. that was a serious rant about what I see as the entire republican platform/way of life~!!!

Cheers to ya...


Blue - You have no control over what you have started.. get used to it... IT is life.. and the more you try to control it, the more it will get away from you....




I again, have to say that I admire and honor those who would fight a good fight... Unfortunately... there are no good fights... anywhere!!!!


So that means that the money spent to train these elite fighters... the cost of care if injured, the cost of transport... the cost of pay to those putting their lives on the line... As an American who does not believe in Socialism.. I'm not sure that this republican agenda isn't socialism in reverse.. or better put.. In order for an unjust war to continue, the armed forces have to create fake events in order to insure that our American leaders continue to pay, with the taxpayer dollar, which is basically my taxes that I pay every year!!!!!



I know that most of you might not be able to think outside/beyond the very narrow confines of the FLOX news/Savage/or that other blowhard you all quote so often... but America needs to check its self... we are losing our "Leaders of the free world" standing... we have taken the globe for granted with all our consumption, endless use of the earths materials (materials that, I understand, are not limitless, as the people at (Insert your favorite automaker here!) seem to think.



We are pathetic.













So.......

I'll keep climbing..... Hope to get a few pick, then I'll die and leave the rest to y'all to fight over...


Oh yeah, let those that stand up and cheer "our" troops without considering the traumas that their very existence breeds (either done to the troops, or by the troops)... let you be the first to wear your stars and stripes... you keep living in the bubble of your own creation where none of the realities of WAR actually exist.. You know.. the stuff that happened to the HONORED VIET NAM VETS (just keep pretending they don't exist all over american streets.... hey, republican???? Where do you think those that you say America honors now are going to end up?????????








Keep your heads in the sand, everything is going to plan, everything is happy, and war is good... (repeat after your favorite right-wing talk show jackass... it makes you look like a genius!!!)



As far as you know!
Jingy

Social climber
Flatland, Ca
Dec 10, 2009 - 08:24pm PT
Hey, that was all made up too!!!
WBraun

climber
Dec 10, 2009 - 08:28pm PT
Jingy

What's that got to do with the seals?

Your post belongs in the political thread.
Jingy

Social climber
Flatland, Ca
Dec 10, 2009 - 08:32pm PT
Hey, just honoring the seals with a little reality check werner...




you can read, get to it!!

LOL

Cheers dreamer!
WBraun

climber
Dec 10, 2009 - 08:43pm PT
So

The sum substance point of what you're trying to bring across is;

If the "Head" the Administration is in poor fund of knowledge then no matter how strong and powerful the "ARMS" ( military) the end result will create ruinous damage to the entire whole.
Jingy

Social climber
Flatland, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 08:01am PT
keep reading.....

bad interpretation, Braun


Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 08:58am PT
Cragman wrote

"It takes a patriot to understand the honor due a SEAL. Anarchists and seditionists need to find another country."

Just be sure you'd take your own advice and shut up if the seals were used to put down an attempted coup in Venezuela so Chavez could keep power.

People who give the military lip service honor without defending him from abuse from political misuse, and poisons like DU and Agent Orange are playing in to propaganda that seeks to honor the military with words so people will be inspired to sign up and die.

Seal have no say, no power, and no right to opinion regarding where they are sent and what they are exposed to. Whose job is it then?

Peace

Karl
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 11, 2009 - 09:00am PT
Yea, this kind of behavior is really honorable. Remember, some of these are former NAVY SEALS:

Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4179869


Blackwater Guards Tied to Secret Raids by the C.I.A.
By JAMES RISEN and MARK MAZZETTI
Published: December 10, 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/11/us/politics/11blackwater.html?_r=2&hp


Give honor when honor is due, but don't turn it into hero worship please.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 09:27am PT
I fail to see why the CIA hiring 'specialists' to help them is a big deal. They were operating in a war zone. Wouldn't you want highly trained people to assist you in covert operations that involved identifying/apprehending/ and supervising terrorists?

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 11, 2009 - 10:26am PT
Because they could do what they do (assassinations and any other illegal black-op etc.) outside the law, without punity. This is Lawlessness. The Geneva Conventions do not allow this. Our US laws and Constitution do not allow this.

So the CIA has some dirty work to do. They don't want it on the books. Well, Blackwater/Xe are our guys to do the job. No blow-back from the law.

Wow, CIA/Blackwater/Xe together in bed. Isn't that some kind of special relationship? They get to bake their cake and eat it too.

Do you not see how wrong this is?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 10:55am PT
Yeah, I know, Cragman....ooops!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:01am PT
Who is a CT? This is fact and well know now concerning this situation.

Conspiracies do indeed occur, no theory about it. Why not call it Conspiracy Fact?

CF= Conspiracy Fact.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:14am PT
The SEALs are indeed among the best warriors on the planet.

Their motto however is:

The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday!

Edit: I'm sure they have used many sayings and mottos over the years.
My personal favorite is:
Pain Is Just Weakness Leaving The Body.

They might even take offense to you laying the USMC motto off on them....
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:23am PT
Cool!
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:50am PT
Cragman said:

And when the real sh#t hits the fan in your world, and some group that disagrees with you is busy raping, terrorizing and killing your wives and children, who you gonna call? Werner? Throw a cucumber at 'em!


What if OBAMA sent the SEALs on a suicide mission to kill some group that you AGREE WITH that IS NOT raping, terrorizing and killing YOUR wives and children???


What if I had then started this thread instead of blue--would you keep YOUR comments limited to OORAHs and disconnected anecdotes of their legendary daring and bravery???


Is it okay for me to beat my wife as long as I tell everyone how beautiful she is and how much I love her???
WBraun

climber
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:58am PT
Cragman always tries to make the spin on everything.

No where did I ever mention that the seals are no good at fighting.

I actually said this is where they excel.

The only thing I ever mentioned is that pair them up against top condition climbers the climber usually excels on land.

Never mentioned anything about climbing either.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 11, 2009 - 12:09pm PT
Might I suggest your band start not only their own thread, but own country. You could sit around and discuss who will defend you from the People for the Ethical Treatment of Vegetables, and other terrorists that do not think like you.


Cragman,

That is pretty hateful stuff you just said there. I suppose you would also say, "America, love it or leave it." Or how about this, "America, my Country right or wrong." I could imagine you probably feel the same way, right?

Did you serve in the US armed forces? I did, and I served honorably. I didn't serve in War time, but none the less, I served and helped bury many an honorable veteran and carried their caskets in Arlington Cemetary while stationed in the 3rd US Infantry, "The Old Guard," at Fort Meyer, VA, in the US Army Honor Guard, Co. E. I was only in for 2 years, but I served my time honorably and did the best job I could. I have my Good Conduct Medal, Army Achievement Metal, and the Old Guard Coin. I have found memories of my time served and met some really good friends.

Would you say the same thing to these veterans?

Iraq Veterans Against the War
http://www.ivaw.org/

They are just as critical as I am.

We can say "Our Country love and serve it when it is right, and when it is wrong make it right."

All veterans should receive honor and praise for their service, not just the bad-a$$ elite.

You need to watch the film about John Kerry: "Going Upriver - The Long War of John Kerry"
http://www.amazon.com/Going-Upriver-Long-John-Kerry/dp/B000646MMA



Dessent is patroitic. It is what makes our country great and brings about positive change. Or would you rather bury all the crimes we do, and that are done in our name, and live in a make-believe fairytale land?
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 11, 2009 - 12:32pm PT
Klimmer,
The Old Guard, how cool!
I loved watching those guys at Arlington. I spent a LOT of time out there.
One of my favorite places in the world. Almost too powerful for words.

I served my time honorably as well. I love my unit.

I was involved in "schooling" the SEALs during an Arctic Survival exercise, because I was a Survival Instructor and they were a tropical team. But they were awesome and super tough dudes. I certainly wouldn't volunteer to fight them.....

Thomas Jefferson said dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
I think he also said Love your country always. Love your government only when they deserve it.

The SEALs are an incredible tool of national policy. They have been used and misused as well. They are also capable of right and wrong, just like all of us.

I am a big fan of the SEALs, but not necessarily the people that send them into hero making environments. But the SEALs don't ask about that part. (publicly) They just go and do their job.
Jingy

Social climber
Flatland, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
To be sure... I did a moment of searching....

Found this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html

From your favorite (and possibly only news channel) FAUX...

It says what a wondereful job the SEALS did to capture some wanted dudes... but that these guys couldn't keep the detainees safe...

(I'm with you when it comes to getting the bad guys that are planning to get us (me), but when the SEALS are harolded as the elite of the elite, I have to wonder if they really are just humans with exceptional training for attack and little if no training with Tack)

These guys probably should not be charged, after all, they were doing the job assigned to them... But how they did it bares a question or 2.


More.....




http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12690379

(From a news organization most (repubs) might want to get rid of...

There is a critical member of the orgaisation (SEALS), now retired... He asks ""War's not black and white," Luttrell tells Steve Inskeep. "You can sit there and put it on paper, like, 'This is what has to be done in this certain situation.' But when you get up there on that mountain, or when you're in a battlefield, it doesn't work that way. And sometimes stuff has to be done so you can preserve the life of your men.""


So, when some of us Americans stand up and cheer for the SEALS, without knowing the bloddy details of the life of a SEAL commando, we fail them....

Like I say, I admire and respect that there are folks out there with exceptional training, and I honor them in their getting the job done... But there is way more to it then that....


Dismiss all of this.. as (I imagine) you will... just keep cheering until you find out the facts of everything... Make no mistake, none of this is connected with anything at all!


I find that the origins of the SEALS to be some good reading.. This from wikipedia:
The origins of the Navy SEALs go back to World War II when the United States Navy saw that in order for its troops to successfully land on beaches it needed brave men to reconnoitre the landing beaches, take note of obstacles and defenses, and ultimately guide the landing forces in. As a result the Amphibious Scout and Raider School was established in 1942 by joint- Army and Navy at Fort Pierce, Florida. It was intended to train explosive ordnance disposal personnel and experienced combat swimmers from the Army and Marine Corps, becoming the Naval Combat Demolition Unit, or NCDU.



So, these guys started out as guys who got in, looked around, and possibly made it safer for troops to land on the beaches... But now they are a special ops teams that go around taking lives of the enemy (again, an honorable thing in my eyes) but when they come home what kind of pride does america have for them?

Do we buy their books to show how greatful we are?
Do we watch their movies?


Or do was just say that we are proud of the job that they have done? Pat them on the shoulder and give them a high five and go on about our lives....?

And what if these heroic SEALS were being used in way different ways than the manual says:
To Provoke War, Cheney Wanted Navy Seals As Iranians
thinkprogress.org — Speaking at the Campus Progress journalism conference earlier this month, Seymour Hersh — a Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist for The New Yorker — revealed that Bush administration officials held a meeting recently in the Vice President’s office to discuss ways to provoke a war with Iran.

Speaking at the Campus Progress journalism conference earlier this month, Seymour Hersh — a Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist for The New Yorker — revealed that Bush administration officials held a meeting recently in the Vice President’s office to discuss ways to provoke a war with Iran.
http://digg.com/politics/To_Provoke_War_Cheney_Wanted_Navy_Seals_As_Iranians

In Hersh’s most recent article, he reports that this meeting occurred in the wake of the overblown incident in the Strait of Hormuz, when a U.S. carrier almost shot at a few small Iranian speedboats. The “meeting took place in the Vice-President’s office. ‘The subject was how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,’” according to one of Hersh’s sources.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/93463/


Yeah.. talk about honorable...
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Dec 11, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
Cragman, are you thick?

Or are you just stupid, brainless, dazed, deficient, dense, dim, doltish, dopey, dull, dumb, foolish, gullible, half-baked, half-witted, idiotic, imbecilic, insensate, mindless, moronic, naive, obtuse, out to lunch, simple, simpleminded, slow, thick-headed, trivial, unintelligent, unthinking, and witless?




this thread was about honoring our SEALS


Main Entry: honor

Part of Speech: verb

Definition: recognize, treat with respect

Synonyms: acclaim, admire, adore, aggrandize, appreciate, be faithful, be true, celebrate, commemorate, commend, compliment, decorate, dignify, distinguish, ennoble, erect, esteem, exalt, give glad hand, give key to city, glorify, hallow, keep, laud, lionize, live up to, look up to, magnify, observe, praise, prize, revere, roll out red carpet, sanctify, sublime, uprear, value, venerate, worship



orsemaj

Trad climber
Washington, DC
Dec 11, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
I live on Coronado Island, California. I have plenty of interactions swimming with the SEAL team members at the local highschool pool and they are all great guys. I also have a few friends that have gone through the SEALs officer BUD/s training.

Most of all I have also been lucky enough to have lived next door to three SEAL cadets while they were in their BUD/S training. These young men were just the nicest group I have recently had the pleasure to meet. Very humble and kind souls. They are now off on their first tour and I wish them all the best, and my thoughts are with them and their families.



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
My brother-in-law lives on Coronado too. It's that big 2-story brick house that backs up to the base. Cool guy, name's Doug. Mc P's is a cool pub too!
Double D

climber
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
bluering... did you get a chance to check out their obstacle course on the beach? It's pretty wild looking.

Werner: I remember when the Survival of the Fittest was taking place and this bad-ass-looking Marine (one of the competitors) walked into the Four Seasons...Dale and I though it was all over for Ron. This guy had veins on veins. Even his forehead had muscles bulging out of it. During the competition he flopped like a rag doll though and Ron, had he not pissed a certain producer during the river swim, would have won hands down.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
Double D, I think I did but I didn't get a close look at it. You can see them sometimes off the beach though, jumping out of helos for some kind of training.

My brother-in-law gets to watch during 'hell week' of their training. Pretty brutal. A team has to carry a Zodiac filled with sand a couple of miles from a spot on the base, through town, down to the beach.

Coronado's a pretty cool place.

Haven't seen that ad, Cragman.

Oh wait! this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmta7GwXCpo

Hahhaa!
WBraun

climber
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
What happened was the bad ass military guy went all ooohrah ooohrah and jumped into the river and almost died.

Kauk told him it's too dangerous and the guy went anyways and got sucked under "Death Rock" and never came back up for a long time.

Everyone thought he was toast. The guy thought he was toast also.

The minute he gave up and thought he was going to die and drown he stopped fighting the hole and relaxed and his feet miraculously made contact with something and he was able to push off and shoot out of the hole.

He came within seconds of drowning to death.

Bachar was on top of death rock to "maybe save" the guy just in case.

Nobody was going to jump in the river at that spot because everyone could see they'd die too that day.

The funniest part was Lynn Hill and all the women just breezed through that same event like they were floating down the Merced river in August.
coz

Trad climber
California
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:25pm PT
I would say climbers would never jump in the river.

But SEALS do.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
Here's a newer, edited version, Cragman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7HPYZdIKL0

I knew it must have been SEALs who nabbed that bad-guy in Somalia...Check out the guy on the wing of the Apache!
WBraun

climber
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
Well coz the seal guy came in last and broke both legs to boot during the survival run.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 03:35pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf_Z5p9SbPQ&feature=related


This one's pretty cool, about halfway through they launch a boat from the back of a plane and chute in after it. Cool stuff!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhzRYMz3cwU&feature=related

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFE-vF8SpuU&NR=1&feature=fvwp
coz

Trad climber
California
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:48pm PT
My point is there is a higher purpose than ourselves.

My Father was a Navy diver, he dived into a river in Yosemite and saved my sister life. He didn't cowardly sit on a rock concerned only with his own survival. They should have both died but they didn't.


My point about the river is their are men who believe, who serve, who gladly go into harms way without asking questions. Is it such a problem for Karl, Klimmer, Jiggy to spares their rehashed the world isn't fair and America Sucks rant?

Could their (SEALS) lives and the lives lost defending our freedoms be honored, by us.

Freedom is a feeling all people want, it is worth fighting for, it is worth believing in. I find the most pathetic of people are those who believe nothing is worth fighting for.




John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Dec 11, 2009 - 04:02pm PT
Honoring someone includes valuing their life. If you believe the war is wrong, then it isn't honoring them to sit idly by and let them die without fighting for them. If you really thought that a war was a waste, would you just shut up and let your son or daughter go to die while others go "hoo rah"? I don't think so. You would tell your son or daughter that you loved them and you would do everything you could to get them out of harms way. That is honoring them.


Thanks go to my brother Mike and my dad for their military service in war time. My brother served during Vietnam, and I supported him by fighting against that war. My father served in the pacific during WW2.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 04:31pm PT
What makes the SEALs (and other special forces for that matter) really a unique asset to the US is their efficiency. Instead of sending tons of Marines or Rangers (God bless 'em), a SEAL team can accomplish amazing missions and never be detected, whether it's demolition, snatch-n-grabs, or 'scrubbing' someone.

In a sense, they get the job done with a small footprint.

The Somalia dude...
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/09/senior_al_qaeda_lead_7.php

SEAL sharpshooters and pirates and the rescue
http://www.freedomslighthouse.com/2009/04/us-navy-seal-sharpshooters-took-out.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123953580718311447.html



The recent event in Falluja was ballsy. 3 guys go in to snatch a known terrorist from his turf. And the only reason the rat is alive is because the SEALs were probably told to do it that way.


The petition again.

http://www.indianadan.com/savetheseals

and the story;
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/navy-seals-fallujah-blackwater.html

WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Dec 11, 2009 - 05:09pm PT
Bump for SEALS who don't ask, they just DO!


. . . what they are told.


What if they're told to jump in the river to retrieve someone's shoes?

So they don't ask, they just DO and they just DIE, and they were BADASS, but was it worth it?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 05:34pm PT
I don't remember saying anything negative about the Seals.

But the defenders of status quo abuse of the military here rarely show they care for the welfare of the troops. Why no discussion of how DU, gulf war syndrome and other issues need more support to keep these guys from being walking poison dumps when they return home.

Actually you are regarding them almost like the quarterbacks of your favorite football teams, taking vicarious pride in being a fan of a superstrong winning team. Make you feel good about your place in the world.

Meanwhile, the seals aren't able to make much dent in the FUBAR messes we're in. 8 years in Afghanistan and our own top soldier says we're losing. One of the Taliban's main sources of income comes from protection money our own military (and their contractors) are paying to insure safe passage of convoys on roads in enemy territory.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091130/roston

It was bad enough when we armed Al Queda and Bin Laden in the first place in Afghanistan, but then we invaded and we're still paying the enemy.

What does this have to do with the Seals? Nothing if you regard them as folk heros and not guys getting the shaft in a very, real, violent way. This culture of "support the troops" by cheerleading the mission, no matter how flawed, simply needs rebuking.


Peace

Karl

Edit: from that link

"...In this grotesque carnival, the US military's contractors are forced to pay suspected insurgents to protect American supply routes. It is an accepted fact of the military logistics operation in Afghanistan that the US government funds the very forces American troops are fighting. And it is a deadly irony, because these funds add up to a huge amount of money for the Taliban. "It's a big part of their income," one of the top Afghan government security officials told The Nation in an interview. In fact, US military officials in Kabul estimate that a minimum of 10 percent of the Pentagon's logistics contracts--hundreds of millions of dollars--consists of payments to insurgents...."

"...The real secret to trucking in Afghanistan is ensuring security on the perilous roads, controlled by warlords, tribal militias, insurgents and Taliban commanders. The American executive I talked to was fairly specific about it: "The Army is basically paying the Taliban not to shoot at them. It is Department of Defense money." That is something everyone seems to agree on...."

"...The bizarre fact is that the practice of buying the Taliban's protection is not a secret. I asked Col. David Haight, who commands the Third Brigade of the Tenth Mountain Division, about it. After all, part of Highway 1 runs through his area of operations. What did he think about security companies paying off insurgents? "The American soldier in me is repulsed by it," he said in an interview in his office at FOB Shank in Logar Province. "But I know that it is what it is: essentially paying the enemy, saying, 'Hey, don't hassle me.' I don't like it, but it is what it is."

Wars are so much about Money. Killing for it, dying for oil, and keeping the war machine churning.
Morgan

Trad climber
East Coast
Dec 11, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
SEALs and Drones kick ass.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/11/pakistan.qaeda.operative/index.html
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 05:39pm PT
I don't get it Morgan. That link was only about a guy killed by a drone.

Which is how the military is replacing a lot of special forces missions, by robots.

Not saying whether that's good or bad, just sayin that's the war of the future, not guys throwing boats out of helicopters, but robots.

Peace

Karl
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 06:15pm PT
The SEALs prolly had identified the target, Karl, from afar. Called it in to the CIA in Pak and BOOM, one more bad-guy gone.
Morgan

Trad climber
East Coast
Dec 11, 2009 - 06:16pm PT
Not much to get other than I like both SEALs and Drones. You are right about un-manned platforms being the future, since the capabilities of fighter aircraft now far exceed a human beings ability to withstand G-Forces. The question is will technology be used with responsibility or will the world look more like TERMINATOR 2.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 08:12pm PT
Yes Morgan

This automation of war will make things safer for us as long as we fight third world powers without this kind of technology.

The world keeps moving though and soon tech will be the provence of terrorists who can concoct biological weapons and sneak them anywhere. We better grow up in diplomacy both here and in other countries so we don't inflict these great powers on each other for much longer.

As the technology of death becomes more powerful and stealthy, it changes the equation in unexpected ways. When guns became ubiquitous, martial arts stopped becoming very effective for defense. Someday Seals will be up against trickier threats than IEDs.

Humanity must change sooner than later or we're hosed. Seems like it could go either way at this point.

peace

Karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 08:13pm PT
Bluering, interesting stuff about the drones find their targets from

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-06/predator-drone


"..New information is coming to light about how the US military has been directing their bombing attacks by unmanned drone aircrafts via small microchip beacons. These microchips, planted by hand by spies around the homes or meeting places of Al-Qaeda agents, send signals identifying targets for destruction, much like laser designators for smart bombs.

One of the most difficult aspects in the war being conducted in Pakistan is obtaining accurate, real-time intelligence, accessing the region, and ultimately attacking the threat. However, in the remote and mountainous regions of Waziristan and the Swat Valley in Pakistan, populated by factious tribes that may or may not be housing Al-Qaeda operatives, this has proven difficult. Over the past several years the US military has launched many missile attacks by the drone aircrafts, which have solved the problem of the access and the attack. The microchips, called “parthai” by locals, meaning “metal device” in Pashto, have solved the issue of intelligence. The chips are placed by local tribesmen, who are paid by the CIA and who have a more intimate knowledge of the community and targets."

The weird thing is that military is hardly involved in acquiring the targets or even using the drones. It's the CIA and Private industry! from

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=8692

" From a secret division at its North Carolina headquarters, the company formerly known as Blackwater has assumed a role in Washington’s most important counterterrorism program: the use of remotely piloted drones to kill Al Qaeda’s leaders, according to government officials and current and former employees.

The division’s operations are carried out at hidden bases in Pakistan and Afghanistan, where the company’s contractors assemble and load Hellfire missiles and 500-pound laser-guided bombs on remotely piloted Predator aircraft, work previously performed by employees of the Central Intelligence Agency. They also provide security at the covert bases, the officials said.

The role of the company in the Predator program highlights the degree to which the CIA now depends on outside contractors to perform some of the agency’s most important assignments. And it illustrates the resilience of Blackwater, now known as Xe (pronounced Zee) Services, though most people in and outside the company still refer to it as Blackwater. It has grown through government work, even as it attracted criticism and allegations of brutality in Iraq..."

Peace

Karl

Edit, Interesting debate on drones in a conservative rag

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/sep/01/00016/
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2009 - 11:46am PT
Yeah, Karl, I've heard that too. About the small chips getting placed by 'spies'.

The CIA has full permission from the Paks to operate a drone base in their borders. The whole Pak gov't response that we're invading their borders illegally is just for internal consumption. They Paks actually want us to give them drones but we said, "nah', we'll operate them, just give us a base in country.

The story's out there, you just gotta look for it. The CIA dudes can't even leave their base or be seen for obvious reasons. Whitey in Pakiland raises suspicion.

Bottom line - we're getting it done with Pakistan. 3 successful strikes in 2 weeks. We just need to get more of our guys on the AFPak border to prevent the rats from abandoning the Pak ship.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Dec 12, 2009 - 12:44pm PT
Big problems associated with those chips. They can be moved.


The US first used a common IR laser light to spotlight buildings that they wanted a smart bomb to hit. Then we blasted a Chinese Embassy. "Accidentally"


I fully believe that they strike was the result of a counter by the Iraqis. They either had access to a captured US laser, or they made one from radio shack components to spotlight the embassy. The bombs locked on the brightest coherent beam in the area of the right color. It wasn't hard using ground lasers to arrange for an overwhelming beam to be created.

We changed our tactics for a while just after that. Then we made the lasers modulate a tone, and the receivers on the bombs seek that tone. The old system was too simple and open to spoofing.


The hand placed beacons share this flaw. If you can spot it and move it to a place more of your choosing, you can use the opponents bombs to hit what you want. And anybody with decent technology will jam that in a real war, anyway. Jammers are way lot easier to make than the bombs beacons, to anybody with some skills. None of that stuff will be quite as effective against real targets in the field against a high tech opponent. They will be reserved for use against civilian targets.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 12, 2009 - 02:34pm PT
Hey, I have a former Navy SEAL I would like to celebrate!


Here is a new tv series with Jesse Ventura former Navy SEAL, pro-wrestler, and former Governor of Minnesota. This is very well done:

Conspiracy Theory: 911 Episode 2 part1/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8834&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part1_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

2/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8835&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part2_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

3/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8836&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part3_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

4/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8837&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part4_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

5/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8838&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part5_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

6/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8839&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part_6_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879


This series with Jesse V. is really good. Well done, and new information is revealed that I hadn't heard before.

Now here is a real hero. Talking truth to power.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 12, 2009 - 02:38pm PT
You aren't even in the right country Rox.





The Chinese embassy bombing was in the Balkans.

The laser designator was in the plane.

The mistake was mixing up two very similar buildings a block apart on some satellite photos.

This all happened during Clinton's "Janitor assassination campaign"

(We only bombed buildings in the middle of the night)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2009 - 03:07pm PT
Klimmer, maybe you could start a new conspiracy thread or something....
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 12, 2009 - 03:31pm PT
Bluering wrote

"Bottom line - we're getting it done with Pakistan. 3 successful strikes in 2 weeks. We just need to get more of our guys on the AFPak border to prevent the rats from abandoning the Pak ship."

I hear it is true that many Al Queda are being killed in Pakistan. Let's hope the outcome is positive. Why the question?

Gained: Poor and Isolated guys in the Pak Hinterland are being killed. How effective are they really able to be in Al Queda? It doesn't seem to be slowing the Taliban any. They got little money or way to come west right? How big a threat are these guys to anybody?

Lost: the large Pakistani population, armed with Nukes, is offended that the US is bombing within their borders. This could potentially weaken the government and put serous military and nuclear assests in militant Islamic hands. Even larger areas of Pakistan like Swat were in militant hands earlier in the year. Wassup? Shakey situation

Peace

Karl
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2009 - 04:34pm PT
Read some of the polling of DAWN news, a PAK website....
Nohea

Trad climber
Sunny Aiea,Hi
Dec 12, 2009 - 06:40pm PT
I teach at a school where 65% of the students come from military families mostly from the Air Force, Navy and Army. I thank them at each parent teacher meeting and let them know how proud I am to be teacher of their child.
Once I worked out with a SEAL for about a year, biking, swimming, running. A tough guy to keep up with, He never whined and was always a hard charger.

Thank you to all those serving the Country!

Aloha,
will
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 09:28am PT
Well it's nice to see some Congressmen have taken this issue up.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34819
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Dec 14, 2009 - 10:20am PT
I was stationed in the Army in Pusan Korea 74-76. I went on a weekend outing to, I think, either Masan or Chinhae. When traveling as an serviceman, there is always a free space to stay at any military base, if they have room. I happened to put up with a platoon of SEAL's that were there on a training mission for the Korean Navy's version of the SEAL's. Needless to say, I have never felt so intimidated being around a such a group of world class athletic guys.

They did everything together and after dinner they invited me to go out drinking with them at a local bar that evening. I was sitting with the officer in charge of their platoon (whatever the Navy's equivalent of a lieutenant is) drinking and listening to the group's general noise level increase with each round. Finally, one of the group jumped up on the bar, whipped out his Johnson, and proceeded to relieve himself, with the sound of breaking glasses included in the background of the overall din.

I looked at the officer and asked "aren't you going to put a stop to this?" He turned to me and in a very drol voice said "I will, when we get a little more group participation".

I'd have these fellows in between me and the bad guys anyday.
Jason Torlano

Social climber
Dec 14, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
From a SEAL friend in the Nav.


Subject: Video...


This is an unbelievable story. The video is incredible.

This story is about PVT Channing Moss, who was impaled by a live RPG during a Taliban ambush while on patrol. Army protocol says that medevac choppers are never to carry anyone with a live round in him. Even though they feared it could explode, the flight crew said damn the protocol and flew him to the nearest aid station.

Again, protocol said that in such a case the patient is to be put in sandbagged area away from the surgical unit, given a shot of morphine and left to wait (and die) until others are treated. Again, the medical team ignored the protocol. Here's a seven-minute video put together by the Military Times, which includes actual footage of the surgery where Dr. John Oh, a Korean immigrant who became a naturalized citizen and went to West Point, removed the live round with the help of volunteers and a member of the EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) team.

Click link: http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/rpg_surgery/
midarockjock

climber
USA
Dec 14, 2009 - 06:44pm PT
I hope you enjoyed your time with your brother also away from seriousness.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 06:49pm PT
I've seen that video before. Absolutely amazing.

The chopper pilots, the doc, and the team that saved him went literally beyond their duties and protocols to save 1 man. That's what makes our armed forces so f*#king awesome!!!

It's a touching video too as I recall. Thanks for posting it.

We did the same thing not so long ago to extract 1 Brit soldier from Helmand Province who had critical injuries. He's alive and well thanks to numerous C-130 crews and logistics crews that organized his extraction to Germany and eventually home to England.

Michael Yon wrote about it. I think it's on the Meanwhile In Afghanistan thread.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 06:55pm PT
Here's the story of the Brit's extraction...

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/do-americans-care-about-british-soldiers.htm
Jason Torlano

Social climber
Dec 14, 2009 - 07:01pm PT
A rant but not far off the mark

>Subject: FW: check this out



about the SEAL trial.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhqKWxBTB_4
midarockjock

climber
USA
Dec 15, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
We have been allies now for quite awhile.

Punching in face?
It's ok to kill and it's not ok to kill. It's ok to use force
and not ok to use force. Too many details lacking from
that video to judge.

I'm going back to civil court shortly with Taliban Towing
along with The Union Of The CA. City Socialist Republic.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2009 - 08:39am PT
From a retired Navy SEAL...

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34844
TopNob

climber
Dec 16, 2009 - 09:10am PT
"My big Bro.
UDT-BUDs Class 98 (Circa 1978)
SEAL Team Six - Plank Owner.
20 Years service."

The single most impressive accomplishmnet I've ever read about on this website. Been lurking forever, never had anything to say until now, signed up for an acoount to do so. Tell your Big Bro "Thank you!" Not many Team Six plank owners walking the earth.
Brother John

climber
Hafia
Dec 16, 2009 - 09:52am PT
Only one Navy man I have more respect than any 10 SEAL Operators.

Navy Corpman. I've seen first hand the work of these bullet proof, high speed low drag squids. While in the sand I had a Corpman look me in the eyes and say, "Time to go to work Cpl".

We where taking coverfire from 3 different directions (killbox). Most of the bad guys where Palestinians trained in the Gaza, and West Bank and who knew how to street fight. While covering the doc he sprinted out to retrieve one of the Marines who went down. Doc comes back to the building and says, "I figure that should get me my hazard duty pay for today".

Incidentally our team was sent into this shitestorm because a SEAL team was compromised the night before.

I've worked operations with Team 4, 6 and 7 in Africa. You can HALO, Kick in doors, snoop and poop all day long. But nothing, and I mean nothing in this world is more bass ass (as someone put it) then a Navy Corpman doing his job.

Sorry to have shifted this appreciation thread from SEAL to Corpman, but I feel its important to note. I wouldn't be hear if it wasn't for guys like Doc Bayless.


http://www.nragive.com/ringoffreedom/nr_j0199_landing.html
Semper Fi Docs!!!
FeelioBabar

Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
Dec 16, 2009 - 09:58am PT
God loves a corpsman.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2009 - 09:58am PT
Good point, Brother John, about Corpsmen...they DO save a lot of lives under fire.


welcome aboard, TopNob!
Brother John

climber
Hafia
Dec 16, 2009 - 10:03am PT
SEALS are made from dead Corpmen parts.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
Bump for SEALs..
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