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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
a dark-green forester out west
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Aug 16, 2007 - 05:33pm PT
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Look, it sounds like an accident.
I know we all get our rocks off opining large about this and everything else, but the fact is, a guy got killed.
My guess is, the rock-thrower feels unbelievably horrible, and the guilt alone is enough punishment - having to live with the knowledge that one careless moment ended the most valuable of things for another person.
Let's (you, I and the authorities) leave him - and this poor, poor deceased equine behind and offer the family of the climber our consolations for a tragic accidental loss.
I don't know the climber, but my guess is that he'd say to do the same and enjoy life while you have it, rather than bicker endlessly over the parsing of a few words.
-Aaron
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John Moosie
climber
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Aug 16, 2007 - 05:42pm PT
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This is what I should have written instead of what I wrote above.
I have done plenty of stupid and ignorant things. Thrown rocks, driven too fast. Gotten into fights. Said mean things. Lots and lots of ignorant things that could have led to someone getting hurt. Thankfully I haven't hurt someone physically and hopefully I have learned to be more aware.
I prefer to operate by the notion that if I had done something stupid and it did hurt someone, what would I hope for. In this case I would hope for leniency. I doubt the guy threw the rock to purposely hurt someone, especially if he didn't know anyone was there. In this case what leniency looks like, I don't know. It depends in part on how remorseful this guy is.
Continuing education is the only way to stop future events like this. Maybe this person could do a public service by speaking in schools. Its difficult to say without meeting the person. This is a great loss. I didn't know Pete but I wish that I had. He sounds like he was a truly steller individual. The kind of person the world needs more of.
I send my prayers to the family of Pete and to the young man who threw the rock.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 16, 2007 - 05:42pm PT
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Social Awareness. teching LEB that one ought to be fun.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Aug 16, 2007 - 06:21pm PT
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But LEB, if you leave SuperTopo will your master sock puppet still post under his other avatars?! Seems unfair to tease us like this, although I for one would welcome your departure. I agree, it does not 'feel' right having your inane posts clutter up the board. Have you noticed that, whenever you post, you are quickly at odds with others?
I suspect 'roid rage is to blame.
Matt, I need that definition of LEBIFICATION from the other thread.
Buh bye!
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 16, 2007 - 06:24pm PT
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If you did't have LEB to gang up and rage against, you would have to invent her.
Locker/Woody edit...
"Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Pave paradise and put in a parking lot"
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Aug 16, 2007 - 06:26pm PT
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Ouch, what are you saying?
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 16, 2007 - 06:37pm PT
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If you drive her away, it will be as in that TV message.
"If you can't live with the noise, imagine living with the silence".
As the old Polish Philosopher, Pastoral Apocalypse said,
"When the ass brays at dawn, divide the cabbage by three"
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 16, 2007 - 07:20pm PT
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i get the ass part, but not the cabbage....
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Burns
Trad climber
Nowhere special
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Aug 16, 2007 - 07:24pm PT
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involuntary manslaughter is probably what folks are looking for here.
manslaughter: n. the unlawful killing of another person without premeditation or so-called "malice aforethought" (an evil intent prior to the killing). It is distinguished from murder (which brings greater penalties) by lack of any prior intention to kill anyone or create a deadly situation. There are two levels of manslaughter: voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary manslaughter includes killing in heat of passion or while committing a felony. Involuntary manslaughter occurs when a death is caused by a violation of a non-felony, such as reckless driving.
negligent homicide would be if someone left their 2-year-old next to the pool and went inside to take a nap.
Certainly a horrible situation for all involved, including the young person who tossed the rock. But I think it would set a bad precedent if the guy got let off (assuming the family chose to press charges to begin with, if that is even their choice). The reason I think this is I believe that people are ultimately responsible for their actions.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 16, 2007 - 07:36pm PT
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deleted per request
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2007 - 08:00pm PT
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a bit more data from the other thread
"Pete was doing a new route near Lander in Leg Lake Cirque. He had completed a lead and was anchored about 800 feet up the wall. His partner had just arrived at the belay. The rock was thrown or pushed off by a hiker from the summit plateau 300 feet above. The thrower looked over the edge, saw it hit Pete, then dialed 911. The rock hit the back of Pete’s helmet covered head. He must have died instantly. I don’t know much about the thrower: I think he is from Casper, a veteran of two tours in Iraq."
FWIW
Karl
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 16, 2007 - 08:01pm PT
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"out of whack.... "
How can you tell if something is "In Whack"? Does it make a different whacking sound?
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Aug 16, 2007 - 08:35pm PT
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The "unlawful" part is the sticking point. So far as I know, there's no law about tossing a rock off a cliff if you don't have any reason to think there's anyone below you. I guess it would be up to a jury to decide if it's the responsibility of the thrower to make sure of that or if it's a fair assumption.
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 16, 2007 - 08:48pm PT
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It will probably play out in civil court.
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 16, 2007 - 11:35pm PT
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 18, 2007 - 10:50am PT
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Prosicuting the trundeler does not bring the victim back to life and may just cause the family more anguish but as climbers we need this guy to do at least some jail time. If he gets off scott free it sets a president that climbers are crazy and if you kill one with a rock its ok as they were risking their life anyways... pretty scary thought. Lots of places here in the east where a thrown rock can kill a climber. We need this guy to be prosicuted. Our Lives depend on it.....
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Spencer Adkisson
Mountain climber
Reno, NV
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Aug 18, 2007 - 05:08pm PT
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I just got back from kayaking on Lake Tahoe with my better half. Eventually, we stopped off near some big boulders in the water to have a little dip. Pretty ideal. The next thing I know, there are splashes, and plumes of water every so often around us. We both look at eachother as if to say, WTF? Then I see it: some little bastard way up on the top of the hill, throwing rocks down into the lake where we are swimming!
I couldn't believe my eyes. I yelled up to him, "Hey, we're down here! Quit throwing rocks! What are you trying to do, kill us!?!
The kids mom quickly got on his case, "what are you doing, don't you see the people down there, why are you throwing rocks, knock it off, you could kill someone that way, don't you even think?"
Well, no blood-no foul, but this terrible accident with Pete Absolon has been on my mind lately, and I was just dumbfounded that something like that should (nearly) happen again. Somewhere along the line there is a disconnect between the thought "throw rock, watch gravity do its thing, big splash", and "no, be smart, maybe people down there, could hurt someone".
I don't have any answers here, but jeez louise! isn't natural rockfall dangerous enough? Now we have to dodge thrown rocks? I might just start dressing like a hockey goalie everywhere I go. I mean...you never know when someone is going to hurl something at you...
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