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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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IC is a gym with cams at this point. sad.
What should it be? 99% of the climbs do not top out. It is almost exclusively single pitch. There is going to be be some sort of fixed gear to lower on, might as well be a pair of bolts. Sure there are people, if you do not like crowds then your options are very limited. I have only been going to IC for 3 years, although I have been climbing since the mid eighties. Everywhere decent has become crowded especially weekends, but not to the point that you can not get on something fun. At least it is better than surfing, 20 guys fighting for the same wave when the swell hits. Or are there now turf fights breaking out in the parking lot at Real Hidden Valley?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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I don’t hate climbers...But I seem to feel better when they’re not around......
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A Essex
climber
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What should it be? 99% of the climbs do not top out. It is almost exclusively single pitch.
there's ur problem
trad shouldn't be 'single pitch'
did the Stonemasters aspire to 'single pitch'??
No! they topped out multi-pitch and walked off like Men!!!!
chop the convenience anchors and the hoards of gym rat instagrammer millenials will cease
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Close the bloody road and they’ll disappear faster than you can say “toque”!
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Folks, Indian Creek is a gymnasium because there are many developed routes and legal camping. If you look around a little you will see there is more of the wingate in other parts of Utah. A hundred times more? A thousand? Everyone goes to Indian Creek because that's the scene.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Don Paul, nice point....the scene. It's been there for me since junior high. I loved being part of the scene all my life until two very special friends taught me to value just being alone with the rock, the wilderness and the creation. Still getting used to the concept.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Yeah, the internet has a way of sucking!
I can't mention my favorite zone but it too is/has been getting crowded. I don't do much tech climbing anymore, just scrambles that might reach 5.6/5.7. I am seeing more expanded parking lots and toilets at most trailheads. Most vehicles have REI/Backcountry stickers and aren't the kind of vehicles the locals drove 2 decades ago. Even our local NPR radio station has weekly wilderness hike recommendations sponsored by the Wilderness Association...can you frikking say Irony with a capital turd?!?!?!
I have noticed more evidence at the bases too. I thought climbers like a natural look?
Even the choss piles are talked about at coffee shops now!!!
Thank the earth for ID is all I can say. You need a strong local redneck population to keep the hordes down IMHO. Of course that has it's own 'factors' too but I'll bet dollars to soft drinks a rednecks carbon footprint is a fraction of our new travel/camp anywhere lifestylers of the modern era.
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DanaB
climber
CO
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Baby-boomers have done a lot to hurt the planet at the expense of future generations.
So sorry. That must be very difficult for you to deal with.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Return to an old fashion gym and take up mens' gymnastics. You can hear a pin drop.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Great generalization DanaB.
John Gill, right on.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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I don’t hate climbers...But I seem to feel better when they’re not around...... NOW we're gettin' down to it ... keep a sheath on it boys!
~~~~
... and long overdue that rottingjohnny should be buried in a pile of nods
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Levy
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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I was in the Kern Canyon this past weekend and saw only 2 other parties all weekend long.
Nobody else at Valhalla, 2 parties up at Kern Slabs (aka: Kernville Rock).
No waits in line, no full parking lots, just glorious rock and sunny breezes.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2019 - 03:52pm PT
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Okay, I am going to make a generalization that many will disagree with. People have noted on this thread that the further you have to hike to a climb the fewer climbers there are. This has always been true but I think it is more evident today than ever before.
I do a lot of hiking in the San Juan Mountains near Ouray and I have noticed that the majority of hikers are middle age or older even on weekends when the retiree demographic doesn’t have an advantage. Any outdoor store will tell you that their sales of large packs suitable for multi day backpacking have decreased markedly over the last couple of decades.
Today’s youth are experiencing intense marketing from companies like Red Bull to get involved in extreme athlectic activities that are short in duration but long in intensity.
And then there is the way today’s youth are introduced to climbing vs. previous generations. Many of my generation started by hiking in the mountains for both the physical activity and also to experience the beauty and the wildlife there. For some, that led to a desire to get to the tops of the mountains and the need to develop the skills and expertise to do so safely.
Additionally, a great many people of my generation were introduced by outing clubs at the colleges they attended. These clubs had a holistic approach that included multiple day backpacking trips.
I believe that a majority of today’s climbers were first introduced to climbing in gyms were the main emphasis is on the athletic part of climbing. They then, usually, move outdoors to sport climbing where the emphasis, again, is on the athletic aspect of climbing. You won’t find many sport crags very far from where you park your car.
This along with today’s theme of get a big bang for your buck but do it in time to socilaize at the brew pub are concentrating the vast majority of climbers at venues high in difficulty and short in approach.
As with any generalization there are many exceptions. There are many phenomenal young alpinists who seek out gems in remote and very difficult to get to places.
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Trump
climber
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I just saw a great bump sticker that said “Oh, lighten up!”
I like it! They were taking it so seriously that they felt like they needed to scold me for taking it too seriously.
I thought of telling them “Oh, lighten up!” back, but, you know, I didn’t want to be part of the problem.
People are funny! It’s good to be able to laugh at them.
Places get overcrowded when other people are there. If we don’t go, they won’t seem overcrowded to us, and they will actually be less crowded. If we do go, then they will be crowded, and we’ll be part of the crowding problem.
Oh, lighten up, us! It’s kind of a funny conundrum we’re in.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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I like (and try) to laugh at myself. Who am I anyway? And, just to keep on topic, when the hordes descend and they see me alone, laughing, often they leave that piece of rock....just for me. :)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Lynne, when they see me THEY start laughing and then they can’t climb. 🤡
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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I don't climb much any more, so this is not a big issue for me. But...what has replaced climbing is landscape photography, and the same thing is an issue there. Basically between the fact that there's just more people than in the 70s and 80s, and the internet, particularly social media, popular sites get overrun.
Places that used to get hardly any traffic, like Mesa Arch or Horseshoe Bend are super crowded now.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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stevep, I'm with you brother. I've developed a new landscape photo philosophy:
Don't take someone else's photo.
In other words, I won't shoot Horseshoe Bend or Mesa Arch (or wherever) unless I'm good enough to make a photo that's demonstrably different than all the Instagram and gallery and calendar photos that are already out there.
Mal
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Okay, I am going to make a generalization that many will disagree with.
Sorry Jim, but I didn't see anything in your post to disagree with. I don't know if that means that one of us needs to try harder to be more cantankerous, but the bottom line to your thoughts, as far as I can tell, is that things change. Hard to disagree with that.
Do you remember how these same debates occurred when we were young? Okay, there was no internet, but there was plenty of action in the "Letters to the Editor" columns of the climbing journals. The young guys, when we were young, were doing things that the old guys found distasteful.
Fast forward 50 years and...
...young people are doing things that old people find distasteful.
But, for me, the really important thing in your post is that last paragraph:
As with any generalization there are many exceptions. There are many phenomenal young alpinists who seek out gems in remote and very difficult to get to places.
Damn right. Even here in my tiny community in a remote spot on the BC coast, there are a few young guys pushing out into even remoter valleys and testing themselves on the big walls they find there.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Any outdoor store will tell you that their sales of large packs suitable for multi day backpacking have decreased markedly over the last couple of decades. IMO, most of the trails those packs were being sold for are now 1 day trail runs.
A hike is not a significant barrier. There are plenty of strong and fit people out there. Just because they started in a gym doesn’t mean anything. The remote stuff is more crowded too, in proportion. Cirque of the Towers in the Wind River is an easy example.
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