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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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The editor of a gunks guidebook update raised many of these issues on MP. The thread is https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116677196/1st-pitch-tr-on-multi-pitch-routes-gunks .
Of the things Jim mentioned, I think the most controversial was the idea that leading should take precedence over top-roping.
Since climber density will continue to increase, the basic question is whether this large and diverse community can find a way to behave with common decency. It is hard to be optimistic, especially since it only takes a few a$$holes to ruin everyone's day, but perhaps we can pull it off against the odds.
Ultimately, those responsible for the management of popular climbing areas will find it necessary to restrict access.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Since climber density will continue to increase, the basic question is whether this large and diverse community can find a way to behave with common decency. It’s all noobs learning from noobs and it’s getting worse, IMO - this is the main problem.
When I started, as most here I think, a strong culture existed and was much greater than the sum of what new climbers brought in each new season. You got assimilated, not the other way around, and maybe it took a year or two to learn to wipe your butt right out in the woods.
Now it’s like absolutely everything is discarded, destroyed, ignored or just not at all understood as an impossibly large flood of new people come in.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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but today's 'community' is SO FRICKIN' HUGE and self-oriented that I see virtually zero hope for self-management
Seems a bit over the top. The number of serious climbers is probably still pretty small.
Supercrack Buttress has been crowded for years . . . there are many other crags out there.
This choss pile could use some traffic, any takers?
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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At least the hordes have
descended. Cliff side rescue
is a mutha.
Our beloved activity has
been loved to death.
Who can be to blame?
Once one gets hooked
no stopping"the hordes".
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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For me climbing is not a social activity, but a communing with wilderness.
Same rules as in the 50s and 60s: if there are any other people anywhere around, go somewhere else.
There used to normally on any given day be no one on El Cap or most other Valley formations.
While we were making my autobiographical movie, 'Solo', we didn't see any other climbers around.
It's fine that has changed, but that's not my place any longer
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DanaB
climber
CO
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If I am at a climbing area, I'm one of the crowd that people are complaining about.
I was at Clear Creek on Friday, The parking lots for the popular crags were packed by 9 am, but we went somewhere a bit out of the way - no one there the whole day. But if you had specific routes you'd like to try, that approach doesn't help.
Things can be hit or miss. I've seen at least 20 climbers on Crimson Chrysalis - no exaggeration - and I've seen it empty the whole day.
At areas like El Dorado and the 'Gunks, I'm afraid that the self-selection process of get there early if you want to get in will eventually fail and as Rich noted, there will rationing, perhaps like it's practiced in some back country destinations.
I am so, so grateful I was able to experience areas like the 'Gunks, New River, RMNP, Red Rocks and so on at a time when they weren't so crowded. I was very lucky.
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iron duchess maiden or whatever
Social climber
under a pile of rock
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Jim, Jim... Jim!
Follow the Tuo Riv down past Glen Aulin. I told you at Facelift 2010.
You must go there. My heart still pounds thinking about that place.
You can also come uphill from HH. Look at the satellite images on googlemaps if you don't believe it.
Cheers!
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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^^ come on, zip yer lips-er fingers!
We don't need that ship to sink as well.
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Oh yeah, the good old days, when no one climbed in Yosemite or the Gunks. You know, all the gps and whatnot can also get people away from the trails and campgrounds. Although that kind of climbing might not help with your ticklist.
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Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
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Two of my other passions are riding my motorbike on windy roads and paddling my boat gently down the stream. While doing these things I am always finding cracks with no one around. There is a huge amount of steep real estate just waiting to be discovered and finding it can be as entertaining as climbing it, true word.
With regards to leaving Boulder, my lovely bride Pam and I have just made the same decision (although we are just down the road apiece in Arvada). We have found our dream spot in northern New Mexico.
Be well everyone.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Boomers are weird. Still looking for roots, community and home at retirement age. Rootless
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A Essex
climber
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bolted trad anchors are aid
take away the easy way down, and gym-trained hoardes will go elsewhere
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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^^^^ That ain’t happening so what’s next?
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A Essex
climber
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chop chop
that'll learn em
thatswut u get fur making trad convenient
IC is a gym with cams at this point. sad.
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bbbeans
Trad climber
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Humans are selfish.
Climbers, new and old, hurt crags sometimes.
Baby-boomers have done a lot to hurt the planet at the expense of future generations.
Everyone should be humble and try to be part of a solution. Easier said than done.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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I regret my postings about the Black.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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I think that Access Fund article posted by rgold is well worth reading. I agree that the high impact areas are going to need some infrastructure to protect the resource. Part of that is the old guard letting go of the initial reaction that climbing areas are wild and should be let alone- many of them no longer are and doing nothing just leads to erosion, corn-back rattlers under every rock and trampled vegetation.
As for the crowds themselves, I dunno. In my opinion, groups often cause the biggest problems, followed by teams getting on classics that they are not ready for and clogging up the route. But what can you do? Maybe some etiquette education effort by the Access Fund and AAC?
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Mal - Reno, Nevada area? For the good medical care, it's helpful to have a bit larger population base. You can get lots of places for skiing, fishing, hiking etc. pretty quickly from Reno...I've had a couple of friends move there from the SF Bay area and they are pretty happy with their decision. I retired to southern California because I cannot tolerate any cold, but I don't think Reno is much different than Boulder for cold.
As to your initial question, Jim, I know the hordes must be out there but I haven't had much issue with them. Climbing weekdays still makes a huge difference - most climbers have M-F work and school schedules.
People are complaining about hordes at Joshua Tree. I was there during Spring Break week with Skip. I know there were crowds because we had to wait in the car line at the entrance. But We had two days of climbing in areas with NO other climbers in sight. We deliberately chose areas that required a bit of walking. And the weather wasn't picture perfect - maybe that combo of distance plus weather scared people away?
And I just did Frogland in Red Rocks for the nth time because my partner had never done it. It was a Saturday but it was hot. Only one other party ahead of us and none behind that we could hear. And after one hot pitch in the sun to start, the rest was perfect.
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