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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Less cattle is good. Second home owners buying ranches and blocking off historical public access to public land is not so good. What the increased property values do to our taxes( we don’t get grandfathered like in California) seems like crime. You can’t afford to live next to one of those bastards.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Land should be put to its best productive use which in the case of western ranch lands is public recreation. Massive private holdings are feudal in nature and should be taken by eminent domain.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2018 - 03:51pm PT
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I’m with you but let's not hold our breaths.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Fat Dad, hunting is still legal over there, the big differences being that you must have most of yer teeth and you have to take a slew of safety courses and pass a knowledge test of the laws. To wit, Rool One being: Thou may not blast away wherever thou desirest. OK, now I understand donini's answer. True enough.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I’m a country person, have been so all my life. I fully endorse the growth of cities, because while I appreciate my personal space where I live, I equally appreciate being to travel an hour an a half to a beautiful city and appreciate what that place has to offer. Cities are amazing! Love them, cherish their culture and history. Their vibrancy. Do the same in your rural surroundings. I know I do.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Conversation seems to be devolving. Chouinard showed up at my remote fishing camp as we were cleaning up. I had never met him, but he was on the Cay to bonefish. It was unannounced and my father stood on the porch as he waded out and gave directions on where to cast. The lighting was bad for site fishing..........
He caught one or two, then tom browcaw showed up and they said they were filming a show about bonefishing
My point is.... Don't judge a book by its cover... Yvon was stripped down to his underware and smiling like a child on our porch very excited about catching a fish. Haha!
Being able to have land and share it with folks that treat it right and appreciate all you do to maintain it is a great feeling.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Game ranches are like titty bars- captive pursuits negates 50% of what makes life's challenges worthwhile and narrows your desire down to the worst of intentions. Paying to have these things served on a platter may be a sign that you're slightly perverted at the very least.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Likewise Brandon,well said.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Personally, I think the more urbinization the better off the planet is
Hows that again Jim?? As long as they don't interfere with your view from your home in South America or your Ouray home?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2018 - 05:11pm PT
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Well batrock...given that the average distance from my two homes to the nearest traffic light is 85 miles I don't think that urbanization will encroach on me in my lifetime.
Do the math, the real culprit is population growth. Urbanization is just the best way to deal with it. Stack them up in high rises rather than spread them out to occupy precious rural and wild lands. When urbanization spreads like sun burn and occupys the entire skin of the planet we will all be well and truly f*#ked.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Jim, I'm doing my part and living in Los Angeles. Why don't you sell your bits of paradise and come join me and help save the planet. Put your money where your mouth is.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
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Have fun in the City of Angels....I think I’ll ride out my twilight years where I am. Paid my dues in big cities now I take some comfort in helping, in a very small way, in bringing some income and increased environmental awareness to two small communities in glorious settings.
If you compare the Ouray of today to the mining town of the 1880’s you will see that the environment and the wildlife have improved many fold. Nature does better when “elitists” like me are the caretakers rather than extraction industries or many, not all, ranchers..
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I'm not disagreeing with your premise but you might want to think about the optics when making statements like that. There are millions of people who would give their left nut to have what you have and to hear you say that they should live stacked on top of each other while you sip red on the deck just doesn't sit well.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
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Oh well, we each make our own path. Mine has been much more difficult than you will ever know. I am past the optics stage in my life, hence no avatar.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Batrock?
Per your previous & this last statement of yours:
I'm not disagreeing with your premise but you might want to think about the optics when making statements like that. There are millions of people who would give their left nut to have what you have and to hear you say that they should live stacked on top of each other while you sip red on the deck just doesn't sit well.
Are you living in LA due to a moral crusade on your part to lessen your impact on our fragile environment?
If so, I commend you.
And of course you walk or bike to work & don't own a car.
Again I commend you.
And do you intend this life as your lifelong future, or do you have other plans?
One note on the earlier posts about rural gun ownership. In Idaho, its 100% gun ownership. I don't know anyone here who doesn't have multiple firearms.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Fritz, all of the above. In fact i retired so I don't have to drive to work anymore.
I don't think anyone would choose to live in a congested crowded city if they had a choice. I think it's funny when the wealthy ask us to to sacrifice for the greater good. It's always easier to sacrifice when you can afford to. Not that Jim is wealthy, I have no idea what his financial situation is and I am not talking about Jim, just in general terms. If you are going to tell others how to live and what to give up you better be doing the same yourself.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Batrock! I'm impressed! Thank you for your efforts.
One last question? Do you have non-adopted children, or are you what I think of as someone truly concerned for our environment?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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No, I never said I was that committed. I do try and do my part, I have solar on my house and own a electric car that I use to drive to my local crag, but I also have a Jeep that I use for more remote locations or longer trips that an electric car can't reach.
I can afford those things and afford to "make sacrifices", I wouldn't expect others to do the same. Fritz, you live in Idaho but I doubt you would move to inner city LA to save the planet. We all do what we can, I wouldn't ask you or Jim to leave the beautiful places you live to "do your Part" and I wouldn't ask someone who is striving to leave the crowded city for a more peaceful life in the country to ditch that and stay.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Some of the highest real estate prices world wide are in dense urban environments so the idea that it’s some sacrifice to live in them seems a bit misplaced. Not all urban areas are ghettos. The only real city I’ve lived in is San Francisco and the quality of my life there was quite high, I could walk to do my day to day chores, knew my neighborhood shopkeepers and took public transit to work. Manhattan is similar and so are lots of European cities.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
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Batrock...I commend you for being a very principled guy and I understand your critique of me. Keep in mind this thread morphed as they always do from it’s original intent. The movement around the world towards urbanization came up (maybe I brought it up) and I posited that it was a very welcome trend in helping to deal with unrelenting population growth.
The reasons for urbanization are manifold as well as inexorable. I never countenanced telling people that it was better to live in urban areas...I don’t have to, the dye is cast in that regard. I aplaud it as a trend that will help preserve areas for biodiversity but I don’t choose to live in an urban area at this stage in my life...been there, done that. Consequently, I don’t feel duplicitous in applauding a trend that I don’t want to be a part of.
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