"Sober as a Judge" is so "last-century" now.

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monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:47am PT
That's a funny interpretation, Sketch. Keep on entertaining us.

What Franken did was considered abuse towards a women by the dems, but I can see where you might think he was just being 'crude'.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:13am PT
Dirtbag sez: I wish I did. Sorry. I have lots of thoughts, mostly unoriginal, but frankly I have no clue as to what would work. I am scared shitless that one party, elected by a minority of the electorate, is doing everything it can to permanently freeze out political opposition.

Dirt.. I feel your pain.. and its echoed here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/10/08/the-corruption-of-the-gop-is-complete-so-whats-plan-b/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.cde96c0ecbd5

I used to be able to vote for the best man/woman to do the job, regardless of party. Now I have to vote just to counter the current partisanship behavior. Because it seems all congress ever does is vote their parties lines. sigh.. That's not my idea of a participatory government when all I can do is vote against the other guy instead of a for someone.

In my limited and albeit unscientific polling of people I talked to... Trump was elected not because people were voting for him; they were voting against Hillary.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:27am PT
monolith

climber
state of being

Oct 11, 2018 - 10:47am PT
That's a funny interpretation, Sketch. Keep on entertaining us.

What Franken did was considered abuse towards a women by the dems, but I can see where you might think he was just being 'crude'.

What's funny... actually it's sad... is the silence over Ellison's domestic violence.

Then again, rapist Bill Clinton is still "beloved" by the Dems.

Hypocrisy noted.
monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:28am PT
The head of your party endorses child rapist Roy Moore, Sketch.



Your hypocrisy noted, Sketch.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:31am PT
I haven't read all of the above, but here's a very good summary of the situation IMHO.

dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:36am PT
Thanks McGuzzy. I had actually read that a few days ago and think it is spot on.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:50am PT
What happened to Franken is why comedians don't perform on college campuses.

As for Kavanaugh, it comes down to he said/she said. The only way to come to some clarity is to scrutinize the credibility of the accuser and the accused.
We know much of Kavanaugh, but little of Ford.

To see the other side of the coin of rockermike's excellent video, here is a take by a Canadian professor. Good people see very different things...sigh.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
I tried watching that, Larry...I really did. The snarky commentary made it clear it was yet another biased rant, which many on the right will hold up as more 'valid' because it's coming from a woman.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
Your hypocrisy noted, Sketch.

I don't endorse him or Trump.

And still your tacit approval of Ellison persists.

I forgot how disingenuous you are.

Noted.
John M

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
that video posted by larry is full of biased holes. she said that people denied that the event happened. This is not true. They said that they did not remember. That is a big difference. Then she said that her friend should have remembered because the event took a lot longer then it takes to go to the bathroom.. this is again simply not true. Not if you really look at the event, which probably lasted less then 2 or 3 minutes. Which can be a lifetime if you are the one being abused, but is just moments if you are downstairs enjoying a party. She then smears Ford because she could not remember every detail of the assault. Yet experts say that it is common for assault victims to not remember many details. That video did not pass the smell test.

0/10 video Larry..

As for the argument that the evidence against Kavanaugh given at the interview should be held to some standard that would hold up in a court of law, then the investigation into the event should also rise to that level. In a trail, witnesses who could testify to the character or who could testify to similar behavior would have been interviewed and their testimony would have been put up to cross examination. This did not happen.
monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:24pm PT
You attack the left while pretending to be independant, Sketch, with arguments that are easily applied to the right. Your sham is quite transparent.

Noted.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 11, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
This is not true. They said that they did not remember. That is a big difference.

Lol... comon John...

So she ran out of the place after being viciously attacked and didn't tell/warn the only other female (her BFF too) of the drunken attackers... or mention it later to her.

Right....
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
are you a female, Fear?

if not then shut up, you don't know what you are talking about

stick to your tired ass conspiracy theories
dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
What Norton said.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
Yes. There are enough moderates for a third party.

Gallup regularly polls for party affiliation. Independents are larger than either party. Last month it was 44%. With Congress' consistently low favorably ratings, a middle of the road option would be welcome.

One big problem is the fringes are dominating the national conversation. Both sides constantly crow about the opposition. It's a vicious cycle.

Another problem is the two party have all the power and all the money. They'll fight tooth and nail to prevent a third party in the game. The devil you know.

There aren't really that many swing voters any more. Yes, there are fewer voters registered with a party and more voters who will answer a poll that they are independent. But most of these voters, if they actually vote, vote the same party they did in the previous election. This is more true than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Winning "swing" voters doesn't matter near as much as getting "your voters" to come out and vote.

I can understand voters disgust at claiming a party. But more and more votes are taking place strictly along party lines. So the party that a given politician represents is much more important than that particular politician as an individual. Sucks, but that is the system we have.

Want anti-abortion Supreme Court justices, vote republican. Want to fight climate change, vote democrat. Doesn't matter which political race it is or the individual politicians.

And with the winner-take-all elections, you aren't ever going to have 3 significant parties. Sure, every now and then an independent will win some given election. And on very rare occasions a new party will rise up and replace an existing party, but once again you get left with two parties.

The only way to have a system where more than two parties matter is to go to proportional voting and that requires changing the constitution and that ain't happening.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
I find it interesting that Kavanaugh believes legal immigrants can be held accountable today for misdemeanors that occurred decades ago.
John M

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:37pm PT
So she ran out of the place after being viciously attacked and didn't tell/warn the only other female (her BFF too) of the drunken attackers... or mention it later to her.

yes.. that kind of thing happens. She was 15. She was traumatized. People in that condition are often not rational. Things go on autopilot. She may have looked for her friend and couldn't immediately find her, so she left. In that state, she could have rationalized that her friend already left. We don't know.

What we do have is her testimony which in my opinion is more believable then Kavanaugh's equivocations.

There is some belief that she is mistaken in her identification of her attacker. People misidentify their attacker often. But thats because there attacker is unknown to them. She knew her attackers, so I doubt that she misidentified them. She didn't have a fuzzy memory of who did it. She didn't get taken by surprise and had a blindfold put on her so that she couldn't see who did it and was then guessing. She saw who did it. I believe her.

Combine that with the obvious lies told by Kavanaugh during his testimony.. and thus I believe that he did it. He says he was a choirboy who occasionally drank beer. I don't believe that. I believe that he drank often and to excess and that he was abusive when he drank. There are multiple believable people out there who confirm that. But that wasn't investigated.

You are of course free to believe what you want.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
Yeah, the video I posted had a snarky tone to it...but it's a he said/she said scenario and the only way to come down on one side or the other is to either make big assumptions, or to investigate the credibility of the accused AND accuser.

Little is known of Ford, as her social media history was cleared out. I thought the interesting part of the biased video was the career and social setting she lives in.

John M... you are correct that a standard should be set on scrutiny, but is the new political standard for any uncorroborated allegation now "guilty until proven innocent"?

DC is mighty toxic right now, but we now know why thanks to science:
https://www.sciencealert.com/psychopath-capital-of-the-us-according-science-states-ranked-washington-dc
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 11, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
if not then shut up, you don't know what you are talking about

Lol... nice Norton.. stay classy.
John M

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 04:10pm PT
John M... you are correct that a standard should be set on scrutiny, but is the new political standard for any uncorroborated allegation now "guilty until proven innocent"?

Of course not, but a proper investigation should be done. And remember, this was not a trial. This was a job interview. If it had been a trial, then there should have been an impartial judge, a proper investigation and the lawyer from both sides should have been allowed to call whomever they wanted within the scope of the trial and cross examine each witness. Since he claimed he couldn't have done it because he was a "choirboy", then that should have been examined.

As a job interview, then its allowable that people decide who they believe. I believe Ford. Again, you are free to decide who you believe, just as you are free to decide who you will vote for.

Just based on his prevarications under oath, I would not consider Kavanaugh to be worthy of being on the supreme court.
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