"Sober as a Judge" is so "last-century" now.

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Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 5, 2018 - 05:44pm PT
It does appear we are going back to the 19th century era of drunk judges, who worked for various politicians, criminals, & criminal-politicians.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
"Get us out of here by 4 pm and happy hour's on me," she said.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:09pm PT
I suspect our hapless Supreme Court nominee is just the tip of the iceberg...consider:
*The rich are 27.4% more likely to drink than the poor.
*Caucasians are 13.9% more likely to drink than blacks.
*College graduates are twice as likely to drink than non grads.
*College students who are athletes or members of a frat drink three times as much as other students.
Fits Kav’s profile, and likely a lot of other judges, to a T.

The new phrase should be...sober as a poor, female black who didn’t go to college.
Oh yes...women are 12% less likely to drink than men.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
I'll drink to that...
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
Kind of off topic jim. The thread seems to be about drinking and judges irrespective of what their political leanings may be.....ha, ha.
Bale

Mountain climber
UT
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:28pm PT
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
It does appear we are going back to the 19th century era of drunk judges, who worked for various politicians, criminals, & criminal-politicians.

And the 20th century was somehow different?

Sure, there have been periods (mostly short) and individuals that may seem wonderful, but, as far as I know, there has been no time or place in history where everything was rainbows and unicorns.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
Hocking ,that is funny,Foster lived in my hometown, neighborhood friends used to cut his lawn.

Some wondered if he was really acting ,lol.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
Who?
Trump

climber
Oct 5, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
Right nothing partisan about drunk judges the day before Kavanaugh gets appointed to the Supreme Court. I can’t remember - is he a Republican appointee or a Democratic appointee?

If we’re playing to win, the way that trump played to win, then that meme of Kavanaugh with the beer helmet is spot on. But we might be somewhat shortsighted in the way we define “win.”

On the plus side of our nonpartisan lovefest, isn’t it great that we have a teetotaler as president?! I’ll take my answer off air, and I won’t be surprised if the answer is us lying to ourselves.
WBraun

climber
Oct 5, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
They assassinated the corrupt Scalia to put this corrupt drunk monkey in his place.

America is doooomed .....
WBraun

climber
Oct 5, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
Your vote does jack sh!t.

These corrupt fukers rig everything.

St00pid brainwashed Americans believe all this voting horsesh#t.

That's why you Americans are stuck with the Orange Ape .....



hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Oct 5, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
i'm with you all the way jim brennan. this from a guy whose only ever bumper sticker read "include me out"
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 5, 2018 - 09:15pm PT
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
Judge Winchell. He was always sober as a 19th century judge.

Krease

Gym climber
the inferno
Oct 5, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
didn't cosmic used to be a cool guy? when did he turn into a trumptard fukwad? how does Kavanaugh's appointment beneficially affect a partially disabled widow-washer? liberal tears will nourish him?
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Oct 5, 2018 - 11:53pm PT
Shouldn't the title read 'Honest as a judge' is so 'last century' now.?
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Oct 5, 2018 - 11:56pm PT
didn't cosmic used to be a cool guy?
no
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 6, 2018 - 05:48am PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2018/10/04/unprecedented-unfathomable-more-than-law-professors-sign-letter-after-kavanaugh-hearing/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c75c8d752533

Get it right, Kavi's the fukwad.
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Oct 6, 2018 - 05:55am PT
when he stoops to greet RGB i wonder if she's tall enough to knee him in the 'nads
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 6, 2018 - 10:12am PT
MH:
Kavanaugh's having an alcohol problem isn't the issue. Lying about it is.

So now Kav has an alcohol problem? Where's the evidence of that?

If somehow you think that perhaps drinking too much on occasion in high school / college means Kav has an alcohol problem now or even then, then I guess the vast majority of Americans have an alcohol "problem."

As far the lying: seems like everyone is assuming that but again, where's the evidence? How do you know someone else has blacked out unless they tell you (or perhaps you have a conversation that elicits that).
As far as I can tell--no one ever said that, they said things to the effect of "I drank a lot when I was with Kav and I was super drunk so I guess he was too . . ."

That's a pretty weak argument: Kav's a big guy, and alcohol affects different people differently.
It's entirely possible that the young ladies (at the time) who said they went out with Kav and implied he was sh#t faced are simply wrong: they may have matched him drink for drink and they were blackout drunk, but he was more-or-less OK.
(Some people have said he was "stumbling" or "sloppy," but again, that's not much evidence of blackout.)

I'd imagine the vast majority of ST posters know people who have or have had real alcohol problems. For those people, you don't have to guess or make up funny inferences based on other people saying they themselves were drunk--it's obvious. They've got DUIs, got arrested, lost jobs, lost spouses, quit climbing because they're too messed up, etc.

Kav's had a stellar legal career and career as judge on the 2nd highest court in the US (sort of), been married once, father of girls who he is very involved with coaching, etc. I suppose if he can all that with an alcohol "problem," maybe we should all start drinking more.

I'd meet you halfway and say maybe some his testimony before the Senate was not the absolute 100% most accurate testimony that anyone has ever given, but it was a ridiculous sham anyway in that the "hook" for the questioning about drinking was to make the silly argument that he attacked Ford but was so drunk he didn't remember. And I suppose Judge also didn't remember? And it's not even really consistent with Ford's testimony, which is much more that Ford and Judge had an evil plan to assault her, with advance planning, maniacal laughing, etc.--that's not what blackout drunk people do.

The questioning about drinking was just designed to embarrass Kav and stir up stupid sh#t from 30 years ago--so it's a bit of "ask a stupid question get a stupid answer."
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 6, 2018 - 11:28am PT

If American Liberals would stop being candy asses about government policy and actually vote in democratic elections and played to win instead of expecting the merits of a debate club argument to carry the day, the outcome would be different.

Yea, whoever thought that a political debate on the merits should carry the day. That is so just un-American.

And we all know that judicial proceedings are just so must show trial for the naive.

If the facts and law are on your side as a tenant, but the judge rules in favor of the landlord, then you are just a poor sap that should have had better lobbyist to get a judge on "your" side instead of "their" side.

Winning isn't everything, it is the only thing.

Social justice and a fair outcome are just the lame whining of losers.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Oct 6, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
"As a born again Luciferian I am offened that our lord's geometry has been dragged into this"

(Lucifer was originally a sarcastic and derogatory term applied to a king of Babylonia. "He thinks himself the bearer of light; the sun rises because of him.")



The attempts at character assassination will have greater influence on future SCOTUS rulings than traditional conservative philosophy might have.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 6, 2018 - 01:09pm PT

If the US Senate appoints the inadequate and prevaricating Kavanaugh to its Supreme Court:

Six of the nine justices will be Roman Catholics (including one who is now Episcopalian), and three Jewish.
Four will have gone to Harvard law school, and four to Yale law school.
Four were born in New York state (three in the city), and one in New Jersey.
The far-right Federalist Society will have had a hand in the appointment of three.

That's very far out... unbelievable... It must be the Russians... or is the (net)work of rich white old American men...

Well, and some women...
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
Is boof back to being a fart?
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
Fox News is already full steaming ahead with The Kav, The Debacle, The Apprentice (Take Two) as a rallying cry to Trumpites in the upcoming election.

Vote your conscience - does anybody do that anymore?

Justice Kavanaugh may be headed for impeachment if Democrats win a House majority


Should the enthusiasm displayed by Democratic voters over the last 18 months, translate into a Democratic majority in the House and possibly the Senate, you can be assured that there will be hell to pay for Justice Kavanaugh – as there should be.

Democrats owe it to our country to be impartial and thorough and go wherever the facts take them – no more, no less. If the evidence leads to Kavanaugh's impeachment, so be it, but finding the truth must be our top priority.

As much as I dislike Brett Kavanaugh and everything he represents, I dislike the permanent damage being done to our institutions even more. The legitimacy of America’s highest court is under assault – we must do everything in our power to restore it.


https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/justice-kavanaugh-may-be-headed-for-impeachment-if-democrats-win-a-house-majority
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 6, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
WBraun

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 05:09pm PT
Maybe Kavanaugh will go out and celebrate tonight and drive home drunk and get a DUI arrest of himself ......

Muwahahaha .....
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 6, 2018 - 05:12pm PT
They got just what they wanted, a partisan tool. His reference to wacko Clinton revenge theories said it all.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 6, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
The government sh!tshow continues...

HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 6, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
Gene

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 07:32pm PT
Oxymoron of the Day:

Justice Kavanaugh
Trump

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 07:46pm PT
Social justice and a fair outcome are just the lame whining of losers.

Right? It’s so unfair that after 4 billion years those jerky humans are the ones who’ve inherited the earth. And don’t get me started on those privileged white ones! And men living in a sexist patriarchy?! Pffft!

But sure, let’s hear more from white male humans on what their thoughts on fair are. I expect they’ll think they have some deep insights into it that are worth our consideration. Let’s make the ones who drink beer go last, just to distinguish our righteousness from our new Supreme Court Justice. That’ll sure show them!
dirtbag

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 08:09pm PT
Shout out to Lisa Murkowski, who voted no.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 6, 2018 - 08:39pm PT
There seem to be a lot of privileged self hating white men posting here about hating other privileged white men because they're white and privileged and.... stuff...

Strange. Unless I'm wrong about the demographic here....

In any case, the circus goes on. What will the 24x7x365 idiots blather about nonstop now on the teevee? Maybe we need to mix up our supposed enemies a bit. Maybe focus on Chinese "aggression" in their own sea.

The circus needs a new focus to hate.



dirtbag

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
^^^Yep.

100%.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 6, 2018 - 09:14pm PT
Wish it weren’t so, but it’s so.
John M

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 09:18pm PT
thats not why trump won.. and congress is the way that it is in part because of gerrymandering. So telling people to just hold their noses and vote doesn't fix the problems.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 09:34pm PT
Why Conservatives prevail is because they have an agenda and don't give a f*#k about the considered opinions of their worthy opponents.

Or, conversely, the opinions of their opponents are nowadays rarely well considered. Democrats now too often are the party of mob hysteria and ends justify means. Still a few sane ones left, but their direction is not promising.

There seem to be a lot of privileged self hating white men posting here about hating other privileged white men because they're white and privileged and.... stuff...

Well said.
Aeriq

Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
Oct 6, 2018 - 09:50pm PT
I have gotten to the point where I pretty much don't trust white males unless they are Trad Daddy Dirtbags from BITD that smoke pot constantly and live in a VW bus, with a flip-phone and Birkenstocks - as well as a bank balance of less than $5K.

Trying to be generous with my assessment, here.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 6, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
The supreme court recently ruled against the republicans' redistricting program that gave republican candidates an unfair advantage over democrat candidates ... If that case had come up with justice cavanaugh on the supreme court bench you can bet the illegal redistricting program would continue unabated.. America's political system is seriously broken when either political party , typically the business friendly republican party , can shove a cattle prod up the supreme courts back side to satisfy the special interests of corporate America...
Aeriq

Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
Oct 6, 2018 - 10:02pm PT
The "Supreme" Court thing has always felt to me like a weak point/easily abused privilege in our checks and balances.
Just look at their title, power and length of appointment.

All it takes is a strong flow of influence to humanize a construct. Examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad_Co.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC



John M

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 10:23pm PT
There seem to be a lot of privileged self hating white men posting here about hating other privileged white men because they're white and privileged and.... stuff...

mercy you have it bad.

I'm very certain that there are very few "self hating white men" on this forum. Most of them are quite happy with their lives. What they are, are people who see the need to use that privilege/power to help those without privilege. That used to be a conservative value. But with the advent of the war cry of "welfare queen", the conservative party has become hard hearted and self centered and appears to be controlled by the major corporations. Thats what the "privileged white men" on this site complain about. That and the fact that it appears to many on the left that the right is now made up of a bunch of people who are so afraid of their own shadow that they need a military that spends more on itself then the next 8 most expensive militaries in the world today. boo! Please don't twist that into meaning that I don't want a strong military. I do.. I just don't believe that we need to spend as much as we do. I believe that we could cut military spending by 25 percent and still be strong. We could then use that money to pay down the debt and fix some of our infrastructure. Edit: and please understand that I realize it would be bad to cut military spending by 25 percent in one fell swoop.

....

Jim, you are oversimplifying things. Telling people "just vote" isn't enough. Its been tried over and over. Millions have been spent on campaigns to get the vote out. It helps, but it is not enough.

Edit: Hillary helped get the vote our by calling a group of people "deplorable". thats one prime reasons she lost.
Aeriq

Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
Oct 6, 2018 - 10:38pm PT
Forest for the trees, People.

The "Blame Game" is another construct.

Ugh - I should disappear again, but this sh#t hits me hard...

Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 10:59pm PT
Jim, you are oversimplifying things. Telling people "just vote" isn't enough. Its been tried over and over. Millions have been spent on campaigns to get the vote out. It helps, but it is not enough.

Ummmmmmmmm, yea, wow, ya know this whole democracy thing is just so inconvenient for us lefties. If only there was another way...
John M

climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 11:03pm PT
good grief Lituya.. your whole poor me aggrieved schtick has gotten old. grow up man.

I didn't say one thing about democracy being a burden.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 6, 2018 - 11:08pm PT
John M....I think most of theTrump supporters who were called deplorable didn't know what deplorable meant...Let's face it , Hillary was boring , under-whelming , and seriously lacking in leadership qualities...The picture of Trump rudely following her around the debate stage was a sign of weakness...Maxine Waters would have put Trump in his place...Hillary blew a perfect opportunity to score some big points...Loser...
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 6, 2018 - 11:35pm PT
Aggrieved? Geeez, man, wake up! It's what you & LibCo do here every minute of the day.

Carry on.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 7, 2018 - 04:36am PT
I don’t have a flip phone or Birkenstocks.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 7, 2018 - 09:25am PT
bitterness is a result of feeling aggrieved about something. your tone is bitter.

So what ‘tone’ is that, B flat?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 7, 2018 - 09:29am PT
B flat....? Try A sharp....
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 7, 2018 - 09:32am PT
Aeriq, I haven't a flip-phone, don't like Birkenstock's prices, and will ne'er have a VW bus.

I fit the rest of those criteria, however. Thank you for your trust.

You oughta stick around, dude. Your sobriety is appreciated.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 7, 2018 - 09:48am PT

Is Brett Kavanaugh Damaged Goods?
The Supreme Court's newest justice will take to the bench after a brutal confirmation battle. Can he overcome it?
By POLITICO STAFF October 06, 2018

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/10/06/kavanaugh-confirmation-reaction-221087

A long read, but a useful perspective looking back and forward towards the role of the highest level of the judicial branch of our government.

The bloody process & Kavanaughs qualifications aside, what is most worrying to me is the continued erosion of our political discourse and process, and the perception of illegitimacy that may result from the politicization of the judicial branch of government.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 7, 2018 - 09:55am PT
It ain’t all pretty, but Jim Brennan speaks a lot of truth, eh?
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 7, 2018 - 10:16am PT
The bloody process & Kavanaughs qualifications aside, what is most worrying to me is the continued erosion of our political discourse and process, and the perception of illegitimacy that may result from the politicization of the judicial branch of government.

Is this the result of the 2000 presidential election, or is it the result of eight years of an Obama presidency?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 7, 2018 - 10:34am PT
Definitely what Jaybro said.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 7, 2018 - 10:55am PT



And now:




It's morning again, in America!

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 7, 2018 - 12:36pm PT
It's sad that brainiacs like Edward T don't see Kavanaugh's appointment as one more nail in the coffin of an independent judicary. The Republicans have already ceded the other branch of the government, the Legislative, to Trump, who they dare don't oppose lest they risk their re-elections chances. Mainstream Republicans either don't exist or just shrug their shoulders and convince themselves that the true evil is Nancy Pelosi (because...?).

One step closer to a dictatorship.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 7, 2018 - 01:36pm PT
10b, in terms of the shift in political discourse & process, I think it began during Clinton, and intensified through Bush and Obama, with both sides participating. Even during the Reagan years, there seemed to be more political middle ground and willingness to find it in the greater interest of the country.

Though I don’t think it’s in the long term interest of America, McConnell has my admiration for having identified a set of objectives for the GOP, and then achieving them through a fairly Machiavellian process. The only alternative Dems have at this point is to match and exceed that strategy, and between the two parties operating this way, that is not a bright shiny path for any of us.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Oct 7, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
NAFTA hardly changed. All he did was succeed in torpedoing TPS which would have resulted in much more trade. instead we have a trade war costing literally billions in damages already. An accomplishment, maybe if you consider renaming it from Nafta to USMCA a win.

Hardly a list of accomplishments
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 7, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
He has created a major accomplishment with unemployment as low as the early seventies,too bad wages don’t bring much more than they did in that era.

And,hey,he has given the top 10% the wealth distribution they deserve,you know,Socialism for the wealthy,Rugged individualism for the poor.

Speaking of Bernie ,from his Senate position ,he pressured Amazon into raising its wages and is working on others to do the same.

But,you all got your partisan Judge.

Yes,he is doing us all well.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 7, 2018 - 03:48pm PT
More serfs for the wealthy land barons. That is how ‘Merica will be great again.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2018 - 05:07pm PT
The best judge money can buy. A "rich" American tradition.


wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 7, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
Jim,as a Canadien,you have the same voting power as anyone in California or New York.

But ,you knew that.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 7, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
IPCC climate change report calls for urgent action to phase out fossil fuels - live
UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says coal-fired electricity should end by 2050 if we are to limit global warming rises to 1.5C

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/live/2018/oct/08/ipcc-climate-change-report-urgent-action-fossil-fuels-live


The world has barely 10 years to get climate change under control, U.N. scientists say
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 7, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
Hay say Jim Brennan there.

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisElection/videos/2334622229902587/
Keith Reed

climber
Johnson county TX
Oct 8, 2018 - 06:02am PT
https://www.redbubble.com/people/suitman5/works/34372898-the-new-symbol-of-the-gop?p=sticker
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 8, 2018 - 06:08am PT
From a Daily Show writer:


A Congressional staff member has been arrested for doxing GOP Senators' information.

A Senator's wife received a graphic text message with video of a beheading shortly after he voted to confirm Kavanaugh.

Lefties in the national spotlight are encouraging and applauding harassment.

Yesterday, someone tweeted:


When are leaders on the left going to quit fostering this kind of behavior???
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 06:50am PT
So Edward T, if the Dems are encouraging harassment are the Republicans encouraging attempted rape on 15 yr. old girls?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 8, 2018 - 06:58am PT
Fat Dad
Oct 8, 2018 - 06:50am PT
So Edward T, if the Dems are encouraging harassment are the Republicans encouraging attempted rape on 15 yr. old girls?

I don't think so. But they do seem attached to antiquated notions of due process and innocent until proven guilty.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 07:26am PT
He has created a major accomplishment with unemployment as low as the early seventies,too bad wages don’t bring much more than they did in that era.

The “unemployment rate” as a measure of economic health is extremely misleading these days, because it excludes all the people who gave up looking for a job. This group has ballooned in recent years for several key reasons that we ignore at our peril:

 automation in the workplace
 shifting of job mix to require more intelligence and skills, but our lack of investment in education does not provide enough qualified workers

So our politicians can give a pat on the back “economy is great!” But I see about 10x the homeless tents next to freeways and abandoned lots and people living in their cars parked in city parking lots than I did just 5 years ago. Seriously.

Here is why the wages aren’t going up: there are tons of unemployed people who would contribute to our economy if they had a chance, who are sitting on the sidelines, who are “employed” but paying most of their Uber income to make car payments and refill gas and buy new tires, and oh yeah one kid fell off his bike and broke an arm so there goes
6 month of savings and hope the landlord doesn’t increase rent or we’re in the street.


I don’t know for sure but I’m guessing the lower rates in the 60s occurred before the increase of women in the workplace. If that’s the case, we are presently looking at historical lows in terms of labor participation rate, indicating how many people feel hopeless about their job prospects. If I were a leader, I would be very concerned about this number.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 09:09am PT
The “unemployment rate” as a measure of economic health is extremely misleading these days,

The same metrics have been used for a good 30 years so it is a relatively consistent measure.
The economy itself is so much different that a difference of 4% in the labor participation rate is
not much more than a rounding error. And maybe those people should have reconsidered
dropping out of high school, or getting that art history degree? Face it, we have a nation of
fat, ignorant, ill-educated, and lazy slobs who don’t know how to work but think they’re entitled
to the good life. All empires crumble. Consider yourself fortunate to see this one going.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 09:24am PT
I can’t disagree with you about art history and many other majors...
Liberal arts degrees are for people with rich parents or a strong commitment to the ascetic lifestyle.

But people get pretty worked up over a few percentage points difference in unemployment, and labor participation rates should be considered at the same time.

Also, with the gig economy, we need a way to separate our under-employed:

https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm#concepts

Interesting historical measures I’d like to see:
How much of the labor force is in full time jobs?
How much of the labor force works 40+ hrs/wk in multiple jobs with no employer benefit plans?
How much of the labor force works less than 40 hrs/wk and seeking additional employment?
How many work less than 40 hrs/wk and gave up looking for more?
How many earn less than minimum wage working for Uber/Lyft and similar? (After accounting for expenses)


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 09:25am PT
"...antiquated notions of due process and innocent until proven guilty."

Do you believe that due process occurred in this case? That the FBI investigation was adequate?
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 8, 2018 - 09:31am PT
Nut Again, thanks for this.
The “unemployment rate” as a measure of economic health is extremely misleading these days, because it excludes all the people who gave up looking for a job. This group has ballooned in recent years for several key reasons that we ignore at our peril:

automation in the workplace
shifting of job mix to require more intelligence and skills, but our lack of investment in education does not provide enough qualified workers
I agree, and it is also why I don't look at the stock market as a barometer of the economy. The stock market is pure speculative.

So our politicians can give a pat on the back “economy is great!” But I see about 10x the homeless tents next to freeways and abandoned lots and people living in their cars parked in city parking lots than I did just 5 years ago. Seriously.

Here is why the wages aren’t going up: there are tons of unemployed people who would contribute to our economy if they had a chance, who are sitting on the sidelines, who are “employed” but paying most of their Uber income to make car payments and refill gas and buy new tires, and oh yeah one kid fell off his bike and broke an arm so there goes
6 month of savings and hope the landlord doesn’t increase rent or we’re in the street.

exactly, most new jobs are in the service industry.
I am retired, so I really don't have a dog in the fight.
One day last week I decided to go to the Griffith Park Observatory. I figured that there would be very few people on a thursday morning. As I am driving up the road I start seeing signs about traffic delays. I get to the parking lot, and managed to find a parking spot. There were easily two hundred people there, and not a school bus in sight. I said to myself, don't these people work?
One other thing that you mentioned upthread is automation. I just heard about a robot that is doing room service in one of the Vegas hotels.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 09:52am PT
McConnell: Conservative revamp of the courts isn't done yet
The Senate majority leader calls the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh a 'seminal moment' for the conservative movement.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/06/kavanaugh-confirmation-mcconnell-877474

By BURGESS EVERETT and JOHN BRESNAHAN 10/06/2018 02:36 PM EDT
Mitch McConnell isn’t done with his “project” to revamp the nation’s courts.

Hours before the Senate was set to approve Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, the Senate majority leader said in an interview Saturday that he plans confirmations of more lifetime justices before the November election. The Kentucky Republican plans to meet with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) about a package of nominees — and Schumer’s response could determine when or whether Schumer’s vulnerable members will be able to go home and campaign for their seats.


“There are still tools that I have available, that’s why I canceled the August recess. And that’s something I’ll discuss with Sen. Schumer before we leave for the election,” McConnell said in a telephone interview, as he began an extended victory lap on Kavanaugh’s confirmation. He said “of course” more judges will be confirmed before Nov. 6, though Democrats may now be under enormous pressure to block as many judges as they can after the deflating loss on Kavanaugh.

Kavanaugh’s ascension to the high court marks the 69th judicial confirmation of Donald Trump’s presidency under McConnell’s stewardship of the Senate. There are more than 30 lifetime District and Circuit court nominees ready for floor action in the Senate that McConnell could try to confirm before the election, though under Senate rules Democrats could delay them and would likely be able to narrow that list if the two parties try to strike a confirmation deal.

“I felt strongly that really all the way through the process, that in fairness to Judge Kavanaugh, he deserved a vote. You know, to leave him hanging after what they’d done to him was not fair to him or the country,” McConnell said. “And I’m glad that it ended up being a situation where he was, in my view, exonerated, and is going to be on the Supreme Court.”



'Fairness to Judge Kavanaugh.' Apparently, fairness only matters to McConnell when it's in his party's interests. Otherwise, Merrick Garland deserved no such 'fairness' or a vote.

This kind of politicization of the court is not in the country's best interests, no matter which side of the aisle you are on. It is only going to result in an extreme reaction from the left (if they get their sh#t together), and an imbalanced, biased judicial system. That will be McConnell's legacy to America.
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 09:57am PT
Thanks NutAgain.

So looks like the labor participation rate was highest at the beginning of the century, and then started creeping down, and looks like it’s stabilized in the last few years. In response to you saying what you would be concerned about if you were leader, what were the leaders doing during most of the fall of that statistic, and what would you have done differently during that time period?

With respect to women’s participation in the workforce, in 1950 it was 33.9%, in 1966 it had risen to 40.3%. It looks like that 6.4% increase in women’s participation in the labor force didn’t make any difference in the total workforce participation (i.e. the total labor workforce participation in 1950 and 1968 were about the same, despite the 6.4% increase in women’s participation).

In 1978 women’s labor workforce participation was 50.0% and in 2016 women’s labor workforce participation was 56.7%, but, again, it looks like that 6.7% increase in women’s participation in the workforce didn’t affect the total workforce participation (i.e. total workforce participation for 1978 was about the same as for 2016).

I’m not quite following the inference you made based on your lack of knowledge of women’s participation in the workforce, that we’re currently looking at historical low numbers of participation rate, and your anecdotal reasoning behind your inference about the reason for that “historically low” participation rate. Doesn’t the chart you posted show that workforce participation was lower from 1950 to 1978 (a time when women’s participation in the workforce was 50.0%)?
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 10:37am PT
I don't think so. But they do seem attached to antiquated notions of due process and innocent until proven guilty.
apogee kind of beat me to the punch when rebutting this bogus argument. First, this was not a criminal trial; it was a job interview. Second, if the Republicans were interested in due process, as you claim, why did they limit the scope of the FBI's investigation? The short answer for the intellectually challenged or disingenuous on the right is that they weren't interested in due process, just confirming the appointment. Third, if there is such a strong interest in due process on the right, why the ongoing chants of "lock her up"?

I'd ask this question of folks like Edward T but I know there is no credible response to it: what have you gained by Kavanaugh's appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court (other than gaining something that the Dems opposed)? I have yet to hear a single substantive reply to this question.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Oct 8, 2018 - 10:40am PT
Kavanaugh is a psychopath, even if he didn't rape anyone in high school. The people who want more Kavanaughs on the SCOTUS are fanatics. It's nearly impossible for calm, rational people to even get a word in.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 10:49am PT
It will be up to Roberts to restore the legitimacy and prestige of the court. Another series of 5-4 sweeping decisions on hot button issues may permanently destroy the court’s reputation.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 10:59am PT
Ironic that I find myself seeking confidence in the decisions of John Roberts...at this point, he seems like an absolute moderate.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:08am PT
....Kavanaugh is a psychopath....

Lol.... And Trump eats babies and is a Nazi? Just trying to keep track.
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:20am PT
what have you gained by Kavanaugh's appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court (other than gaining something that the Dems opposed)?

The only thing that we can imagine conservative minded people get by appointing a conservative to the court is relative to us - what they get is that we don’t get what we want?

It might not be all about us - they might actually want more conservative rulings from the court for themselves, or some kind of crazy thing like that. They might not have wanted to delay by dumping this guy and starting all over, and then be up against democrats electing a democrat majority to stonewall their new pick until we can re-elect a Democrat, the way they did with ours. They might actually be operating proactively in order to get what they want, rather than just be trying to tweak us and deny us what we want.

And they did - they elected a Republican President, and a Republican Senate, and a Republican House, and they got this conservative justice on the court, and they tipped the balance of the court for many years to come.

We maybe should do the same, without needing to project our own anti-Republican tribal thinking on them.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:28am PT
^^^
Trump doesn't disappoint. A response that provides no response. Next?
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:32am PT
You’re looking for an answer to what future rulings the court is going to make that are going to be things that conservatives got out of appointing Kavanaugh to the court? And in the face of no answer to that question (yet), you’ve concluded that there isn’t going to be an answer, and that they just did it to tweak us?

Alrighty then. Hard to argue with that. Prolly time for you to declare victory. Congrats.

Unfortunately, even after your victory, we’re still left with a Republican President, a Republican Senate, a Republican House, and a conservative Supreme Court expected to be making conservative judicial decisions for some time to come. I’m hoping we can work towards different kinds of victories, but in order to do so, we might need to be a little less tribal in the ways we think.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:47am PT
At the federal level, we have minority rule in all three branches of government.

Is this sustainable?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/10/08/its-official-americans-are-living-under-the-rule-of-a-minority/?utm_term=.25e703f12545
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 11:52am PT
If I put myself into the shoes of a thinking Republican, my answer to that question would be that we have a justice who has a record of supporting corporate interests, the role of executive power, and my gut feeling is that he'll come down against Roe v. Wade (or similar cases), and affirmative action.

If one delves past all of the 'us vs. them' in this issue, and just looks at what he'll mean to the SCOTUS, that's pretty much what Kavanaugh will likely be to conservatives.

Edit:
I would hope that this kind of summation would be speaking the obvious to a reasonably thinking Republican, but that's not necessarily a valid assumption. The 'our side won' attitude is much more prevalent (on both sides, to be fair), without clear understanding of the true implications of the issue.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 12:19pm PT
answer to the dumb question:

they got the judge they wanted
Dumb answer to a good question. This was SO important to the right. We can see why the Republican legislators would tout this as an accomplishment, particularly since they've done very little. But my question is why Republican voters think this is a victory for them? According to folks like Edward T, it is. However, the details of why are lacking.

Like apogee said, one argument could be the hope that he helps to overturn Roe v. Wade but, apart from that, I don't get how Joe Republican thinks this will be good for him apart from the 'my side won' argument.
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
Slavery was abolished 150 years ago, but median white household wealth is still 13 times median black household wealth, and isn’t changing towards a more equitable situation. Sustainable? Hard to say, but it’s lasted this long.

In the Gallup poll from August 1, the US electorate was 28% Republicans, 27% Democrats, and 43% Independents. The plurality of voters are Independents. From a perspective of Party affiliate versus Independent, the split is 55% partisan party affiliate, 43% Independent.

But the Senate is 51% Republicans, 47% Democrats, and 2% Independents, and the House is 55% Republicans, 45% Democrats and 0% Independent.

What happened to all the Independents in our representation? All we have are partisan politicians representing an electorate who’s plurality is Independent. When choosing minority representation issues to contemplate, that’s maybe not the minority representation issue we’d prefer to focus on. I wonder why?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 8, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
Nutagain, all valid points. I am a staunch believer in 20 hrs = BENEFITS, and not just token ones! Walmart should be held criminally liable on that front.


August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 8, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
It will be up to Roberts to restore the legitimacy and prestige of the court. Another series of 5-4 sweeping decisions on hot button issues may permanently destroy the court’s reputation.

Well Roberts will most likely be the new swing justice. On the biggest issues of the days, restrictions on abortion, EPA regulations on CO2, rolling back labor standards, insert your concern here,...

The court will move as far right as Roberts let and they will mostly be 5-4 decisions.

The Supreme Court has never been this wise, impartial institution bestowing fair outcomes from above.

I think it is a bit like Nixon/Watergate.

Nixon was more corrupt than most, but at least he tore off the veil for the public to see. Americans were never quite as gullible and naive afterwards*.

*Some Trump supporters excepted.
Bale

Mountain climber
UT
Oct 8, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
The best thing to emerge from this entire debacle...........




The Samuel L Jackson video.
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
Like apogee said, one argument could be the hope that he helps to overturn Roe v. Wade but, apart from that, I don't get how Joe Republican thinks this will be good for him apart from the 'my side won' argument.

Apart from that? An NBC poll from July said that 52% of Republicans expressed support for Roe v Wade.

Maybe the Republican strategy of working so hard to get a conservative majority on the court was just an emotionally tribally influenced miscalculation. Let’s not tell them, and just reap the rewards of their mistake. That’s been working so far for us. Oh wait, no, it hasn’t.

The stuff that we “don’t get” - we probably need to work on getting that stuff.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 8, 2018 - 12:52pm PT

why dems are losing

Mostly from gerrymandering. Hillary got more votes than Trump.

https://govtrackinsider.com/with-kavanaugh-vote-the-senate-reaches-a-historic-low-in-democratic-metric-dfb0f5fa7fa



In yesterday’s vote to confirm Justice Kavanaugh, the 50 senators voting yes represent states covering just 44% of the U.S. population or 143 million Americans. That’s less than a majority, less than the 181 million Americans represented by the senators voting no (you might say the “Senate popular vote”). Yet the nomination was confirmed.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 01:02pm PT
The main reason for losing is that Dems have failed to realize that the hard core, trumpified, right wing Republican Party has, since at least the days of Gingrich, mounted an all out war against the Dems to gain power, and that the era of both sides respecting democratic norms and bipartisanship is long gone. The Dems have popular support, but they have been clueless as to what they are up against and have lost. Dems have a ruthless opponent, hell bent on permanently freezing them out of power. Our republic literally depends on Dems waking the fook up and playing hard ball before it is too late.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 8, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
All true and I believe they will.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 01:24pm PT
dirt
+1
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 01:34pm PT
Gerrymandering, ok. Those damn folks who wrote the constitution f*#ked us royally with their two senators per state gerrymandered bullsh#t.

Pay no attention to the fact that congressional districting has essentialy no effect on how Senate and Presidential races are decided, had no effect on the results of the latest Presidential election, and had no effect on the election of any of the Senators who cast votes on Kavanaugh’s confirmation.

I blame the Republicans anyway. I guess on the plus side though, their guy did help us end slavery.

Here’s a list of Republicans who opposed Trump’s presidential bid when he became the Republican nominee:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2016

The last two republican presidents, 5 of the Republican candidates who pledged to endorse the eventual nominee reneged when it turned out to be trump, 22 former Republican cabinet members, 12 active Republican governors, 13 active Republican senators, 32 active Republican congressmen.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 8, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
apogee

Oct 8, 2018 - 09:25am PT
"...antiquated notions of due process and innocent until proven guilty."

Do you believe that due process occurred in this case?

No. The Democrats were much more intent on disregarding any semblance of fairness throughout the whole process. So many sleazy moves.

That the FBI investigation was adequate?

That depends on what they were supposed to investigate. If it was just Kavanaugh/Ford incident, I'd say probably.... simply because there wasn't much more to do than interview the other four "witnesses".

From the start, the Dems tried to thwart this nomination by whatever means necessary. They played hard and dirty... and still lost.

It'll be interesting to see which party realized mid-term benefits from this fiasco. about 10 days ago, 538 had the Dems chance of getting control of the Senate at 31.7%. Now it's 21.1%.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 01:56pm PT
Except that it wasn't just Kavanaugh/Ford...it was also (at least) Ramirez. As has been said about the Clintons over and over, where there's smoke, there's fire.

If a three day FBI investigation was done on the HRC's emails (with the WH limiting their access), I doubt anyone on the right would consider that an adequate investigation. Why was it anywhere close to conceivably adequate for these kinds of allegations....for a job of this kind of magnitude?


And I'm curious as well...what is it about Kavanaugh's qualifications and demonstrated judicial history that makes you believe he was the best fit for the job? Given his history as a judge, what decisions do you think he's going to make on the court that will likely benefit your life? (Reasonably specific examples would be appreciated.)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 8, 2018 - 02:11pm PT
Dont forget Trump tasking his customized supreme court with getting rid of obamacare and net neutrality....Another big loss for consumers...The winning hasn't ended...MAGA
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 02:11pm PT
What was the fire with HRC’s emails? Did that disqualify her in our eyes from believing that she was the best fit for being POTUS? Do we honestly believe that where there’s smoke there’s fire, or are we just using that as a way to justify delaying the Republican Supreme Court pick to ourselves?

Are we voting for judges now? I thought we did that in the last election. Sorry we lost. I personally find the guy to be something of a poopy head, but I’d prefer not to come right out and say it.

Susan Collins is a woman who has earned the right to vote on Supreme Court judges, and who voted to confirm Kavanaugh, and who said that she believes him.

She also voted to acquit Clinton in his impeachment trial, saying that she believed the charges but didn’t think they were grounds for removing him from office. She’s been considered the most liberal Republican, and the most bipartisan Senator. She formed a bipartisan agreement to allow but limit the use of the filibuster over judicial nominees. She sided with Obama 76% of the time.

She also opposed Trump’s election, after he became the Republican nominee, and said that he was unsuitable for office.

What do we think of her? Is she one of the hard line republicans? Is her support for Kavanaugh politically motivated and partisanly misguided? Me I think she was one of the few people to actually try to resist her gender and partisan party identities, and to honestly try to make an unbiased decision.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 8, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
From the start, the Repubs tried to thwart Garland's nomination by whatever means necessary. They played hard and dirty... and still won.

Fixed it for you

about 10 days ago, 538 had the Dems chance of getting control of the Senate at 31.7%. Now it's 21.1%.

TBH, I don't think really have a chance of retaking the Senate. There are too many of them up for reelection in states trump won.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 8, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
trump is calling the sexual abuse charges against Kavanaugh a "hoax" by the Democrats. I would expect a major investigation into something like that. Not gonna hold my breath, though.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 8, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
Except that it wasn't just Kavanaugh/Ford...it was also (at least) Ramirez. As has been said about the Clintons over and over, where there's smoke, there's fire.

According to CBS, the FBI interviewed Ramirez. If their report indicated there was anything worth pursuing, Feinstein & Co would have gone public with that info.

And I'm curious as well...what is it about Kavanaugh's qualifications and demonstrated judicial history that makes you believe he was the best fit for the job? Given his history as a judge, what decisions do you think he's going to make on the court that will likely benefit your life? (Reasonably specific examples would be appreciated.)

I leave that info to the experts. He had endorsements from a number of liberal lawyers who practiced in his court. I don't recall any Democrat Senators claiming any of his actions/rulings disqualified him. Before the Ford kerfuffle, the ABA gave Kavanaugh a rating of “well qualified,” the highest of three possible ratings.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 8, 2018 - 02:51pm PT
10b4me

From the start, the Repubs tried to thwart Garland's nomination by whatever means necessary. They played hard and dirty... and still won.

Fixed it for you

Funny how no one cared about the Garland block the entire time it was happening.

This whole process has concluded. The important thing is:


Trump has entered the Querencia Phase of his presidency!!!
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 8, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
Except that it wasn't just Kavanaugh/Ford...it was also (at least) Ramirez

The Ramirez thing was basically a joke, right? Remember she first said she was so drunk she didn't know if it was Kavanaugh or not, although somehow her memory seemed to get a little more clear more recently?!
I had lunch with two very successful female attorneys (one retired, both are/were partners at nationally prominent law firms), both quite liberal, and I asked their opinion of the Ramirez allegations--they both seemed to think it was quite ludicrous that a drunk guy publicly flashing at a college party would be regarded as that big a deal (one seemed to think it was a bigger deal than the other; I guess reasonable people can see that one differently).

And the evidence strongly suggests that Ramirez was just drunk off her ass and imagining things. Like Ford, she identified people who she thought/hoped would corroborate her story, but they basically said it didn't happen / they have no idea what she's talking about. About as much "corroboration" as you're going to get is the weird nerd roommate who hates Kav saying it's the type of thing he or his friends would do.

Changing the subject slightly: remember you were wishing you could know what the current members of SCOTUS think about Kav? Here's about as close as you can get: ask yourself what recently retired Justice Kennedy, now replaced by Kav, thinks about Kav. He loves the guy, it's possible he had an informal deal with Trump to make his retirement contingent on nominating Kav (or at least seriously considering him). If Kav is the first pick of the Kennedy, the great swing vote or our time, the author of the opinion legalizing gay marriage throughout the US, ask yourself is it really likely that Kav is this dark figure who's going to orchestrate the end of the US? Kav who voted the same way as Garland 93% of the time?






wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 8, 2018 - 03:11pm PT
Anything you all say,.....lol.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 03:25pm PT
Both of you (ET & blah) are speculating that Kavanaugh was not involved in either incident. No-one knows (and we may never know) for sure, but the point is that it's a high-stakes position, and allegations deserved a reasonable investigation. Three days...involving only 9 sources out of list of closer to 50...with the scope limited by the WH....this was not sufficient.

Flip it around, guys. If these were the conditions under which Hillary's emails were investigated...with Obama limiting access to certain sources...with a critical mid-term election barreling forward...Republicans would have a sh#t-fit about it.

I'm not in the camp of concluding Kavanaugh was guilty of any of this, but it deserved better investigation than it received. And to believe that it was short-shrifted for any other reason than the impending election is just plain naive &/or politically blind.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 8, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
++++


Are you kidding , I am glad that Obama shaved a few years off these gitbags lives,caused only by themselves.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=git%2bbag&=true
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 03:52pm PT
I’m in the camp of believing it was short-shrifted because of the impending election too. That’s cool - I think we can forgive ourselves for having a sh#t-fit about that, the same way the Republicans would have a sh#t-fit if it happened to them.

But how long are we going to spend in our sh#t-fit? And when we’re done with our sh#t-fit, what do we do then?

Are we gonna start winning elections, and appointing judges that we approve of, rather than needing to have sh#t-fits about the alternative? Are we going to strive to operate in a holistic bipartisan manner, or are we going to sink deeper into our own divisive partisanship, as a counter to their divisive partisanship?

Is mom gonna have to tell us to “quit yer squabbling!”, or are we going to be able to tell ourselves?

Three of the Republican Senators insisted that they have an FBI investigation before voting, and they had an FBI investigation. That’s a good thing, right? Maybe it wasn’t exactly what we wanted, but can we say that was a good thing? And if we can’t, why do we expect it from the other side?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 8, 2018 - 04:13pm PT
Until representation is addressed legitimately,we are sharpening our pitchforks.
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 04:16pm PT
51% women 13% black and 44% Independents! I’m looking forward to that day, but I’m not sharpening any pitchforks over it.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
The sham 'investigation' carries the strong likelihood that any decision that Kavanaugh makes will be seen through the eyes of an illegitimate confirmation process. That's going to be especially damaging in any kind of case that relates to women- such criticisms Kavanaugh may be able to shrug off personally, but it severely erodes the way the SCOTUS is seen as an objective final word as the judicial branch of government.

This is the legacy that will carry forward due to the politicization of the judiciary, which McConnelly has obsessively pursued.
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 04:40pm PT
Agreed. People in the future will see it the way they see it, which will probably be through partisan lenses, same as us.

And in the midst of all the partisan bullshittery, and the collapse of the empire, there’s a little glimpse of these three republican senators demanding an FBI investigation, which we might be well served to not notice or approve of.

The guys on the other side do the same thing, for pretty much the same reasons.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 8, 2018 - 04:40pm PT
Both of you (ET & blah) are speculating that Kavanaugh was not involved in either incident. No-one knows (and we may never know) for sure, but the point is that it's a high-stakes position, and allegations deserved a reasonable investigation. Three days...involving only 9 sources out of list of closer to 50...with the scope limited by the WH....this was not sufficient.

They interviewed all the "witnesses".

It was early 80s. No cell phones. No traffic/security cameras. I doubt any teenagers were using credit cards to buy beer, even if they had them.

What else was there to investigate?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
If you take it at face value that this investigation was adequate, then why have you obsessed over HRC’s emails for years? Seems like pretty selective discrimination.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 8, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
Also to mention ,the whole birther thing,really.

Oh I forgot,old white men.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 8, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
If you take it at face value that this investigation was adequate, then why have you obsessed over HRC’s emails for years? Seems like pretty selective discrimination.


Also to mention ,the whole birther thing,really.

Oh I forgot,old white men.

These must be you're generic fallback positions.

See if anyone cares. Kinda like the Feinstein/Booker/Harris/Blumenthal turdfest.

She's making a white supremacy signal!!!!

I am Spartacus.

FBI, FBI, FBI

Credibility, credibility, credibility.... Let me tell you about my Vietnam service.

So many clowns in such a small car.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
Wilber! Per your mention:

Oh I forgot,old white men.


Or, as Heidi & I refer to them: BOWs!

Bitter Old Whites.

The base of the Trumpian party.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 8, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
As shown above Fritz.


Lol
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 8, 2018 - 05:58pm PT
Generic Fallback Position.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 06:25pm PT
No, Edward....I just don't get it. Investigations & the FBI are bad if they aren't in the interests of Republicans (i.e. Kavanaugh, Trump), but they are good if they are in their interests (i.e. Hillary's emails, the Clintons in general).

Yet another example: McConnell has vowed to investigate Feinstein's involvement with Ford's allegation. No doubt, this is to create lots of noise to distract from the Republican Senate's ongoing efforts to appoint lifetime judges and such. I'm assuming you'll be in support of such an investigation, yes?

And if post-election House Democrats decide to continue investigations into Kavanaugh, and Trump's 2016 election dealings, that will be bad, right?
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
I just don’t get it

I’m with you there. There’s a lot of that going around.

Investigations & the FBI are bad if they aren’t in the interests of Republicans

The Republicans tasked the FBI with doing an investigation into the allegations of sexual assault against Kavanaugh.

The FBI, itself, the real deal, the FBI, they did it - they conducted an investigation into the sexual assault allegations against Kavanaugh. Really, they did.

The reason they did so was because three Republicans insisted they do it before they would vote on Kavanaugh’s confirmation. They didn’t do it in response to Democrats insisting that they do it - they did it because Republicans insisted that they do it.

And sure, the FBI investigation that the FBI conducted was a sham. There’s a lot of that going around lately too.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 8, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
Trump has non-stop slandered the FBI regarding the Mueller investigation but has all sorts of confidence in the bureau and quickly orders the FBI to investigate Kavanaugh and his accusers and after a few days finds kavanaugh clean as a whistle...something doesn't add up here...be interesting to see what happened with the investigation findings...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 8, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
Both of you (ET & blah) are speculating that Kavanaugh was not involved in either incident. No-one knows (and we may never know) for sure, but the point is that it's a high-stakes position, and allegations deserved a reasonable investigation. Three days...involving only 9 sources out of list of closer to 50...with the scope limited by the WH....this was not sufficient.

Flip it around, guys. If these were the conditions under which Hillary's emails were investigated...with Obama limiting access to certain sources...with a critical mid-term election barreling forward...Republicans would have a sh#t-fit about it.

I'm not in the camp of concluding Kavanaugh was guilty of any of this, but it deserved better investigation than it received. And to believe that it was short-shrifted for any other reason than the impending election is just plain naive &/or politically blind

Apogee, for what little it's worth, I mostly agree with you. I would have preferred a more robust investigation.
On the other hand, it seems unlikely that further investigation would have revealed anything (I agree with Edward on that point). The only plausible evidence would have been other people's testimony. And if anyone involved would have wanted to say anything derogatory to Kav, they could have / would have. So the lack of a more thorough investigation was likely immaterial.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
"On the other hand, it seems unlikely that further investigation would have revealed anything (I agree with Edward on that point). "

Not immaterial at all. This is about the integrity of the judicial branch of our government, and how it is perceived by citizens. A reasonably thorough investigation (more than three days, and involving a reasonable spectrum of sources, w/o the influence of a WH that has a vested interest in a judge like this) that brought no more corroborating evidence would have instilled more confidence in people. As it was played, it just looks shoddy and politically driven. It easily leaves the door open to further investigations, and de-legitimizes Kavanaugh's confirmation, if not the SCOTUS as a whole.

Of course, time was McConnell's enemy in all of this- it had to be wrapped up asap to become the political asset he needed for the Republican Senate.
Trump

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 08:06pm PT
What would a White House that didn’t have a vested interest in a judge look like?

Obama didn’t have a vested interest in getting a judge like Garland approved, rather than a judge like Gorsuch approved?

All presidents and all administrations have a vested interest in furthering their objectives. That’s what they do. That’s why people vote for them to do the things they do.

So we didn’t get as robust an investigation as we’d like to have gotten.

Still though, we got an investigation. That’s good right?

It’s good that the Republicans ordered an FBI investigation into Kavanaugh, but it would have been better if it had been a more robust investigation?

I’m not seeing that. I’m just seeing the “it would have been better if it had been a more robust investigation” part, I expect because that’s the only part that fits our partisan narrative.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2018 - 08:17pm PT
Trump, do you really think the Republicans would have agreed to a thorough investigation of the allegations that would require weeks (if not months) to complete, and could unearth elements that would not be flattering to Kavanaugh...an investigation that could easily become a liability to retaining the Senate?

Of course not. It was far more logical to 'agree' to an investigation that would be limited in scope and time, so that the Senators on the fence (esp. Flake, Collins, Manchin and maybe Murkowski) would have something to point to saying that 'due diligence' was done. It's really difficult to be more transparent in the motivations involved here.
John M

climber
Oct 8, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
brilliant! ^^^
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 9, 2018 - 02:45am PT
And sadly true.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 05:12am PT
A reasonably thorough investigation (more than three days, and involving a reasonable spectrum of sources, w/o the influence of a WH that has a vested interest in a judge like this) that brought no more corroborating evidence would have instilled more confidence in people.

What else was there to investigate?

One person's recollection from 36 years ago. Full of holes. None of the supposed witnesses backed her story.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:48am PT
They are counting on that ,there.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:50am PT
On the other hand, it seems unlikely that further investigation would have revealed anything (I agree with Edward on that point). The only plausible evidence would have been other people's testimony. And if anyone involved would have wanted to say anything derogatory to Kav, they could have / would have. So the lack of a more thorough investigation was likely immaterial.
What a load of BS from someone trying really hard to sound knowledgeable about the subject. Testimony IS evidence. In fact, it's often the bulk of the evidence in any case. You seem to believe that since someone could say anything they want, they would. That is not always true. Often it's not. That is why you interview multiple witnesses, to see if their stories corroborate one another's. Also, if you claim that the accuser could "say anything", then you have to admit that Kavanaugh could as well. While it is certainly possible that a further investigation may not have disclosed anything substantive, one never knows until one looks. The fact that they didn't bother suggests they were afraid of what they might find.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:59am PT
Look,they do not care what kind of person their president is ,why would they care what kind of person their judge is going to be.

As long as their conservative agenda is pushed forward ,despite the majorities wishes.

Have to vote them out.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:08am PT
It's all about timing...Mitch McCornhole and Trump need Kavanugh on the court in case Trump gets indicted...Then Kavanugh and his partisan colleagues will rule that a standing president can't be held accountable for his crimes ...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:32am PT
frostback

Oct 9, 2018 - 07:22am PT

Looks like Eddie and the ST right wingers made this vid

Hell Yeah!

That's why I posted it, last week.
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:40am PT
OT but the best political ad I've seen this year.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Beto > Beta
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:49am PT
Nikki Haley has tapped out:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/09/nikki-haley-resigns-884156

Though she's using soft words now about Trump, she's one of the very few Republicans that have pushed back against his blather. Got to give her kudos for that, at least.

Edit:

On the up side, though, Kanye is going to have lunch with Trump & Jared at the White House:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/09/kanye-west-white-house-883232

Sigh.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:58am PT
She knows the whole Kav confirmation was a sham. Her conscience finally got to her.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Oct 9, 2018 - 10:05am PT
About three hours earlier an anti corruption watchdog released a report about the private flights and kickbacks she's been taking, doesn't even mention the $10,000 curtains she bought for her office with public funds. Good riddance
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 9, 2018 - 10:35am PT
Look,they do not care what kind of person their president is ,why would they care what kind of person their judge is going to be.
wilbeer, this is brilliant. You've crystalized it all into one short sentence. Well done.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 9, 2018 - 11:09am PT

Obama didn’t have a vested interest in getting a judge like Garland approved, rather than a judge like Gorsuch approved?

All presidents and all administrations have a vested interest in furthering their objectives. That’s what they do. That’s why people vote for them to do the things they do.

So we didn’t get as robust an investigation as we’d like to have gotten.

Still though, we got an investigation. That’s good right?

The point isn't to do a robust investigation before you follow through on a pre-determined decision to confirm them.

It is to a robust investigation and if enough red flags come out, you withdraw the nomination and nominate the next candidate on the list that passes your litmus test.

I believe Obama would have withdrawn a nominee like Kavanaugh. Besides the allegations, his temperament during the hearings should have disqualified him.

But Trump and Republicans can't ever admit a mistake or make a course correction. Instead of moving on to a non-controversial candidate like another Gorsuch, they double down. We will confirm a candidate, no matter how vile, no matter that we could have gone to candidate B that would have pushed the same conservative agenda, just to prove that we have the power to be dicks, and to prove that not only do we want a completely partisan court, we want to gleefully announce to the public that we want a partisan court.

Its a sad day for American democracy.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 9, 2018 - 11:15am PT
His wife is thinking, "Gee, maybe he won't come home drunk tonight."

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 12:06pm PT
Did a search into Mueller's progress. Found this:

https://www.justsecurity.org/60981/force-muellers-hand-midterms-exceptions-doj-60-day-rule/

Apparently, the DOJ avoids "overt law enforcement and prosecutorial activities close to an election".

“No Department policy contains a specific prohibition on overt investigative steps within a particular period before an election,” the report notes. But the department has “a longstanding unwritten practice to avoid overt law enforcement and prosecutorial activities close to an election, typically within 60 or 90 days of Election Day.” The IG reported that some officials put the time period at 60 days, while others cited a 90-day timeframe.

In each of the past three presidential election years, the sitting attorney general has issued a reminder memorandum, though not for midterms.

So, I'm wondering what the hell Comey was thinking, when he dropped the hammer on Hillary, two weeks before the election???


EDIT: Yes, I know what Comey said. What I didn't know about the 60 day rule.

Puts Comey's actions in different What-the-f*#k-where-you-thinking??? light.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 9, 2018 - 12:12pm PT
Edward, Comey has stated why he issued his Hillary email "finding" a long time ago

google it, 1/2 second search time
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
Hey Norton.

Where you been?

What do you think about the latest addition to the SCOTUS?

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 9, 2018 - 01:44pm PT
http://www.tommybrunett.com/i-like-beer.html
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/06/kagan.oath.faq/index.html

Q: Does the president have to attend any of the official or ceremonial swear-ins?

CNN:

No, but it has become a recent tradition. For the first 150 years, there was almost no presidential involvement. The first swear-in ceremony at the White House was in 1940, when President Franklin Roosevelt invited Justice Frank Murphy. Every president since has attended an oath ceremony for at least one of his appointees. And every current member of the court except Sotomayor has had an oath ceremony at the White House. Several of these were symbolic, since the justices may have already been sworn in officially earlier, so they could begin their work right away.

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 9, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
Edward Asks:

What else was there to investigate?

One person's recollection from 36 years ago. Full of holes. None of the supposed witnesses backed her story.

-------------------------

Here’s a list of the people who we know have NOT been interviewed:

A suitemate of Kavanaugh’s has now told the New Yorker he remembers hearing at the time about the incident Deborah Ramirez has recounted. Ramirez, who has been interviewed, had claimed that Kavanaugh exposed himself to her during a dorm party at Yale. The suitemate, Kenneth G. Appold, now says he is “one-hundred-per-cent certain” that he was told the culprit was Kavanaugh. He does say he never discussed this with Ramirez, but he claims an eyewitness described the episode to him at the time. Appold has tried to share this story with the FBI, but there’s no indication the FBI is willing to hear from him.

A classmate of Kavanaugh’s at Georgetown Prep now strongly challenges one of Kavanaugh’s assertions under oath. The person told the New Yorker that he heard Kavanaugh talk repeatedly about Renate Dolphin as someone “that everyone passed around for sex” (the witness’ words), and even heard Kavanaugh singing a rhyme that included the words “you wanna get laid, you can make it with REE-NATE.” Kavanaugh (and many others) described themselves in their yearbook as a “Renate Alumnius,” but Kavanaugh has denied under oath that this was a sexual reference, claiming, ludicrously, that it was intended to show “affection.”
This classmate is not named by the New Yorker. But he put his name on a statement to the FBI and Judiciary Committee that makes this claim, and he is prepared to talk to the FBI. There is no indication this happened.

James Roche, one of Kavanaugh’s roommates at Yale, has written a piece for Slate that claims Kavanaugh lied under oath about his use of slang and his drinking. Roche claims that Kavanaugh “regularly” blacked out. Roche has offered to talk to the FBI, but there’s no indication this happened.
Roche also pointedly added of Kavanaugh: “He said that ‘boofing’ was farting and the ‘Devil’s Triangle’ was a drinking game. ‘Boofing’ and ‘Devil’s Triangle’ are sexual references. I know this because I heard Brett and his friends using these terms on multiple occasions.” Roche concluded that Kavanaugh “has demonstrated a willingness to be untruthful under oath about easily verified information.”

NBC News reports that the FBI has not contacted dozens of people who could potentially corroborate the allegations against Kavanaugh or testify to his behavior at the time. This includes many people who knew either Ford or Ramirez at the time, and people who actually approached the FBI offering information.

The Post reports that Ramirez’s lawyers provided the FBI with a list of more than 20 people who might have relevant information, but “as of Wednesday, Ramirez’s team had no indication that the bureau had interviewed any of them.”

Blasey Ford’s legal team today put out a list of additional people who have not been contacted by the FBI, some of whom were prepared to corroborate that she had in the past discussed being the victim of a sexual assault by a federal judge.
Neither Ford nor Kavanaugh have been interviewed by the FBI.

As the Brookings Institution’s Susan Hennessey points out: “It is inconceivable they could close a real investigation without re-interviewing Kavanaugh.”


Does this list change your opinion of the completeness of the Supreme Court nomination "vetting" process, Edward? Or do you support "Kav" irregardless, presumably because of your obvious admiration for Donald Trump and his deep intellect in picking an extreme right wing judge to put on the Court who judicial decisions you have reviewed and agreed with?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 9, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
you guys getting it all figured out in here? I assume that the ST brain trust has totally got it.


more and more, the damn smokin' duck has got it right. Brennan spews some truth too, for the real.


I sure missed the snark and not-so-campfire-ey boy's-club drama scene while I was out fête'ing my life partnership, and I actually climbed some things, chopped wood and carried water, and had this fella make art for my whole new family:

[Click to View YouTube Video]


[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 9, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
Fat Dad ,thanks ,I am going to Cornell ,part time ,co operative extension.


Lol.

Yes,when I am 62 , I will be a Environmental Engineer.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
Here’s a list of the people who we know have NOT been interviewed:

A suitemate of Kavanaugh’s has now told the New Yorker he remembers hearing at the time about the incident Deborah Ramirez has recounted. Ramirez, who has been interviewed, had claimed that Kavanaugh exposed himself to her during a dorm party at Yale. The suitemate, Kenneth G. Appold, now says he is “one-hundred-per-cent certain” that he was told the culprit was Kavanaugh. He does say he never discussed this with Ramirez, but he claims an eyewitness described the episode to him at the time. Appold has tried to share this story with the FBI, but there’s no indication the FBI is willing to hear from him.

A classmate of Kavanaugh’s at Georgetown Prep now strongly challenges one of Kavanaugh’s assertions under oath. The person told the New Yorker that he heard Kavanaugh talk repeatedly about Renate Dolphin as someone “that everyone passed around for sex” (the witness’ words), and even heard Kavanaugh singing a rhyme that included the words “you wanna get laid, you can make it with REE-NATE.” Kavanaugh (and many others) described themselves in their yearbook as a “Renate Alumnius,” but Kavanaugh has denied under oath that this was a sexual reference, claiming, ludicrously, that it was intended to show “affection.”
This classmate is not named by the New Yorker. But he put his name on a statement to the FBI and Judiciary Committee that makes this claim, and he is prepared to talk to the FBI. There is no indication this happened.

James Roche, one of Kavanaugh’s roommates at Yale, has written a piece for Slate that claims Kavanaugh lied under oath about his use of slang and his drinking. Roche claims that Kavanaugh “regularly” blacked out. Roche has offered to talk to the FBI, but there’s no indication this happened.
Roche also pointedly added of Kavanaugh: “He said that ‘boofing’ was farting and the ‘Devil’s Triangle’ was a drinking game. ‘Boofing’ and ‘Devil’s Triangle’ are sexual references. I know this because I heard Brett and his friends using these terms on multiple occasions.” Roche concluded that Kavanaugh “has demonstrated a willingness to be untruthful under oath about easily verified information.”

NBC News reports that the FBI has not contacted dozens of people who could potentially corroborate the allegations against Kavanaugh or testify to his behavior at the time. This includes many people who knew either Ford or Ramirez at the time, and people who actually approached the FBI offering information.

The Post reports that Ramirez’s lawyers provided the FBI with a list of more than 20 people who might have relevant information, but “as of Wednesday, Ramirez’s team had no indication that the bureau had interviewed any of them.”

Blasey Ford’s legal team today put out a list of additional people who have not been contacted by the FBI, some of whom were prepared to corroborate that she had in the past discussed being the victim of a sexual assault by a federal judge.
Neither Ford nor Kavanaugh have been interviewed by the FBI.

As the Brookings Institution’s Susan Hennessey points out: “It is inconceivable they could close a real investigation without re-interviewing Kavanaugh.”

Do any of those "witnesses" have firsthand knowledge Ford/Kavanaugh party or the Ramirez claim? If not, isn't their testimony worthless? The ol' my buddy heard from a guy whose roommate was there don't hunt.

The Democrats cried for the FBI to investigate the Ford claim. They did.

Now we have a new Supreme Court Justice.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 9, 2018 - 05:24pm PT
So ,STFU,really.


People will be hurt ,you could give a sh#t.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 9, 2018 - 05:33pm PT
Yes ...It was a very thorough investigation taking only 3 days...LMAO...Imagine how much investigating Mueller could get done in 3 days...More laughter at Edwards expense...
WBraun

climber
Oct 9, 2018 - 05:39pm PT
It was a very thorough investigation!

They discovered he drank beer!

They ruled him fit for service since America is beer drinking country.

They named him the beerinator Judge.

America is now happy .... rolls eyes ...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:10pm PT
“Do any of those "witnesses" have firsthand knowledge Ford/Kavanaugh party or the Ramirez claim? If not, isn't their testimony worthless?”

Hard to say for sure if you don’t interview them.....
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
Kavanaugh is toast if an impeachment is launched as his lying to congress is beyond question now

[Click to View YouTube Video]
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:14pm PT
You guys are cracking me up.

Can't tell if you're unwilling to recognize that there is no there there.

Or if you're just that f*#king stupid.

Ford Accusation - One person says it happened. Four say it didn't. No tangible evidence. Oh yeah... it was 36 years ago.

Ramirez - One person said it happened... but she was drunk. No other witnesses. 34 years ago.

No there... there.

LOL




Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
They are The Mob, Edward. Facts are irrelevant. God help us all if they ever get total control.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
Just like you f*#ksticks and the next economic meltdown.

You call yourselves fiscal conservatives.

BS.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
Something tells me we haven’t heard the last of Nikki Haley. She has managed (thus far) to leave Trump’s administration with good graces, but she’s an unusually strong, independent voice in the GOP who hasn’t been afraid to call out Trump when she needed to. (As opposed to sackless psychos like Ted Cruz who let him rip on his wife.) She’ll be back, I betcha.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
The mob is running our country now...The russian mob that is...in cooperation with the corrupt republican party who just stooped to an all time low in confirming the beerinator...
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
Something tells me we haven’t heard the last of Nikki Haley. She has managed (thus far) to leave Trump’s administration with good graces, but she’s an unusually strong, independent voice in the GOP who hasn’t been afraid to call out Trump when she needed to. . . . She’ll be back, I betcha.

And Democrats will savage her like they've done to every other woman that's ever threatened their power or their candidate. And if they can't find anything legitimate--they'll just make something up.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
Trump is gonna announce he's not seeking another term. He'll endorse Nikki Haley for 2020. She'll crush the the Dem's candidate.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
some of us here are advocating for a cry-in-public little bitch, and it's not the folks that trust the woman claiming attempted rape.


i love it that the party of dicks are advocating for the pussybwai to sit for all time on the high court.

as for me, well:
[Click to View YouTube Video]




no no no eddy, we gwine find out sooner what a golden shower in moscow cost our gilten gutless little-bitty-fungus-tip-for-a-phallus big-ego/fake-macho pseudo fresidente. it's weird, almost like folks like the irs starting to smell snake-oil, perjury and stuff.


[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 9, 2018 - 06:48pm PT
THE "MOB"IS SO SCARED.

We will see @the midterms.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
Not much of a tea drinker...

But I like coffee...

And I like it like I like my women 😁
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
With a hand over their mouth...?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
If a Republican had to be in the WH, I'd take Nikki Haley in a New York second over the d#@&%ebag 'Republican' that sits there right now.

Edit:

Why, you might ask?

Because even though she may wind up being another GOP droid with lots of policies I don't agree with, I'm damn sure she would strive for some level of presidential decorum that this POS POTUS has no fooking clue as to how to display.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
I'm damn sure she would strive for some level of presidential decorum that this POS POTUS has no fooking clue as to how to display.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
Trump displaying his stable genius pose...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 9, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
Hocking...Zbrown and i use the same alcoholic writers...But we're thinking about firing them...
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:30pm PT
Problem is Nikki would likely have us bombing freedom into Iran by now.... I like not bombing the sh!t out of everything. Judge Judy is still alive, what about her?
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:34pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Oct 9, 2018 - 08:39pm PT
How’s that swamp draining coming along?
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 9, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
How’s that swamp draining coming along?

Kavanaugh was just put on the Supreme Court.....

How's that resistance thingy going with you?
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 9, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
So The Kav was elevated from the sewer to the next highest bench.

Verrrrry progressive

I bet his little gals are praying right now


That they never encounter someone like papa at the bar they hang out in


What surprises me is that the guy isn't peddling himself for a commercial to fund the psycho treatments the whole family is gonna need
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 9, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 9, 2018 - 09:33pm PT


Sears reportedly preparing for bankruptcy filing as soon as this week
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 9, 2018 - 09:55pm PT
Once again American Liberals decide to use acting smug as an offensive position again an opponent who doesn't give a sh#t.

Bingo, Jim! Still, it would matter more if they had, collectively, the credentials to behave as smugly as they do.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 10, 2018 - 05:00am PT
ground chuck, wish I could send you a get well card from the hospital!!

a truly idsgutsing first family top to bottom
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:00am PT
I agree with the Donald that Ivanka would make a great UN ambassador, but she doesn't want to and there is too much nepotism with Jarod Kushner already.

No doubt another hyper aggressive Bolton type will get the job. Haley was horrible and only made enemies at the UN - but I think her only ideology is power. Her replacement, even a relatively calm person like Ivanka, would still be in the role of causing misery for people around the world.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:17am PT
Horrible? Really?

An April 2018 poll from Quinnipiac, for example, found that Haley had a 75-9 approval rating among Republicans — and a 55-23 rating among Democrats. In these polarized times, the idea that one of Trump’s top allies could maintain such high favorables among both parties beggars belief, yet Haley managed to pull it off.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:36am PT
Ground Chuck, save a little sauce for when Ryan Zinke resigns and we end up with Eddy Munster (Don Jr.) as Secretary of the Interior.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:42am PT
At that point in time all the Trumps will be secretary of the interior...Interior of leavenworth that is..
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:42am PT
But I like coffee...

And I like it like I like my women

Cold and bitter?
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:44am PT
Breaking!

Video of Ivanka rehearsing her first address to the General Assembly at the UN.


https://youtu.be/lj3iNxZ8Dww
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:45am PT
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.

Oct 10, 2018 - 06:42am PT
But I like coffee...

And I like it like I like my women

Cold and bitter?

You're projecting, again.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:54am PT
strong & dark, not to sweet* OR - VERY NICKII blaME Y'ALL FOR THE POP-UP ADS
WITH THE SEXY GIRLS ASTRIDE BIKES,
INVITING ME TO BE A TOURIST
IN THE HOLY LANDZ
OF Jerusalem & TEL AVIVWHERE YOU READ LEFT TO RIGHT
dirtbag

climber
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:59am PT
Haley is too far to the right for my tastes, but she was a sober presence (back to sobriety...!) unlike crackpot Bolton, so she will be missed. She’ll probably run for President at some point.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 10, 2018 - 07:05am PT
Kavanaugh was just put on the Supreme Court.....

How's that resistance thingy going with you?

I guess you’re quite happy with the rampant self enrichment of trump, his family, officials, and anyone with a seven digit income; trump’s violation of campaign laws; his campaign’s collusion with Russia; and of course his blatant racism. Yes, the swamp is indeed getting drained. But go ahead, keep posting little cartoons about Hillary and Bill, because what’s really inportant here is continued rage against two people who have absolutely no power.


As for the resistance: well, we’ll find out in about four weeks what to think of that.
WBraun

climber
Oct 10, 2018 - 07:06am PT
Haley is a st00pid brainwashed Israeli puppet within the US govt.

Absolutely dumb st00pid bimbo .....
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 10, 2018 - 07:42am PT

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 10, 2018 - 07:52am PT
Once again American Liberals decide to use acting smug as an offensive position again an opponent who doesn't give a sh#t.

Set a course of policy everyone else can understand and get behind !
Not sure if Jim was being urbane, but Lituya certainly seems to have bought it.

I find claims like disingenuous, since they simply come from folks like Lituya or Edward T, who know full well what Dems stand for. They're just uncomfortable or unable to rebut those policies head on. For the wilfully ignorant on the right, here's a short list what's important to the left:
1. Clean air and water.
2. Access to health care.
3. A living wage.
4. Tax reform that benefits the middle class.
4. A woman's right to choose.
None of this is new. The right likes to put their fingers in their ears and pretend they've never heard it before. That's their only defense since there is little reasonable opposition (with the exception of no 5 if it frustrates your religious leanings) to any of these policies.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 10, 2018 - 08:08am PT
Sears reportedly preparing for bankruptcy filing as soon as this week

I heard Eddie, the CEO, complain that pension plans caused Sears demise.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 10, 2018 - 08:33am PT
You're projecting, again.

10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 10, 2018 - 08:43am PT
2 decades of poor business decisions, lack of tech investment and a mountain of leveraged debt are the issues at Sears.

I agree. It's never management's fault. . . . .
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 10, 2018 - 09:41am PT
Poll: Kavanaugh confirmation energizes Democrats more than GOP
A total of 46 percent say the Senate ‘made the wrong decision.’

By STEVEN SHEPARD 10/10/2018 05:25 AM EDT
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/10/poll-kavanaugh-midterms-885940

Republicans are touting the confirmation of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh as rocket fuel for the GOP grass roots in next month’s midterm elections, but it’s Democrats who appear more energized by the nomination fight, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll.

Kavanaugh’s confirmation is not popular: In the poll, which was conducted entirely after last week’s Senate vote, 46 percent of voters said the Senate "made the wrong decision" in approving the controversial judge, while 40 percent said it was right to elevate him to the high court.


And following the GOP-led effort to push through his nomination, enthusiasm among Democratic voters has surged. More than 3 in 4 Democrats (77 percent) say they are “very motivated” to turn out and vote in the midterms — more than the 68 percent of Republicans who say they’re “very motivated.”

perswig

climber
Oct 10, 2018 - 11:35am PT
Fat Dad ,thanks ,I am going to Cornell ,part time ,co operative extension.

Lol.

Yes,when I am 62 , I will be a Environmental Engineer.

Wilbeer, too cool. As if you're not accomplished enough, what with bikes and frame-to-finish.
Finest kind!

Dale
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 10, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
A worthwhile read...and noteworthy that the Trump criticism comes from a regular contributor to the National Review.


If You Think Our Politics Can’t Get Uglier Than the Kavanaugh Fight, Think Again
By JONAH GOLDBERG
October 10, 2018 6:30 AM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/if-you-think-our-politics-cant-get-uglier-than-the-kavanaugh-fight-think-again/

They can, and they will.


Confirming Brett Kavanaugh was the best outcome at the end of a hellish decision tree that left the country with no ideal option.

Reasonable people may differ on that. But what seems more obvious: It’s all going to get worse. Because everyone is taking the wrong lessons from the Kavanaugh debacle.

Let’s start with the president. In an interview Saturday night on Fox News Channel’s Justice with Judge Jeanine, President Trump said that he was the one who “evened the playing field” for Kavanaugh when he mocked Christine Blasey Ford at a Mississippi rally the previous week.

“Well, there were a lot of things happening that weren’t correct, they weren’t true, and there were a lot of things that were left unsaid,” Trump told host Jeanine Pirro. “It was very unfair to the judge. . . . So I evened the playing field. Once I did that, it started to sail through.”

This is mostly nonsense. Once Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona had forced the FBI’s reinvestigation of Ford’s sexual-assault allegation, Kavanaugh’s confirmation hinged on the FBI findings and the votes of three Republican senators: Flake, Susan Collins of Maine, and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.

The president’s comments mocking Ford, meanwhile, were singularly unhelpful. Collins called them “Just plain wrong.” Flake: “It was appalling.” Murkowski: “Wholly inappropriate.” Even Senator Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) said he thought the president should “knock it off.”

Nor did Kavanaugh’s nomination “sail through” after that. Instead, the headwinds got stronger, the water choppier, and the sharks hungrier.

As Trump chummed the water, his nominee was rescued by a team of RINOs. It was Flake’s FBI gambit, Collins’s sense of decency and decorum, and the steely determination of Majority Leader Mitch McConnell that got Kavanaugh confirmed. (Remember when Steve Bannon was declaring McConnell Public Enemy No. 1 of MAGA Nation?)

Trump cheerleaders could use a reminder of why Kavanaugh was the nominee in the first place. Trump’s Supreme Court list — brimming with GOP legal-establishment types, of whom Kavanaugh is the crown prince — was imposed upon him by skeptics who feared he might nominate someone like . . . Judge Jeanine Pirro.

But so much is forgotten, left behind in the locker room as Trump and team celebrate on the field. The president, who deserves conservative praise for picking Kavanaugh off the Federalist Society’s menu and for sticking by him, is claiming and getting undue credit for the win. The fact is, the president — himself repeatedly and credibly accused of sexual misconduct — was largely a hindrance in the fight. And he’s now doing further disservice to the new justice and to the Supreme Court by holding up Kavanaugh like a partisan trophy, as he did Monday at a White House swearing-in ceremony that verged on becoming a pep rally.

Such gloating and total war is the new statesmanship. Ryan Williams, the president of the Claremont Institute, argues that the Kavanaugh battle retroactively vindicates Michael Anton’s famous “Flight 93” argument of 2016: that the presidential election was a “charge the cockpit or you die” moment for American conservatives. Now, Williams says, the middle has collapsed, the parties are pulling farther apart, and it’s Flight 93 for as far as the eye can see.

The Left largely sees the situation this way, too. In the wake of their failure to destroy Kavanaugh, Democrats and liberal activists insist they must “fight dirty,” as political scientist David Farris argues in his book, It’s Time to Fight Dirty. Liberals have convinced themselves that Democrats lose because they are too nice. This, not ironically, was exactly the view conservatives such as Anton held about the GOP in 2016; many voters rallied to Trump on the grounds that “at least he fights.”

Stormy Daniels’s grandstanding lawyer, Michael Avenatti, is auditioning to be the Left’s counter-puncher. In response to the GOP’s Kavanaugh win, he tweeted, “When they go low, we hit harder. There is far too much at stake for any other approach.” Never mind that it was Avenatti’s harder-hitting allegations that steeled the GOP’s resolve to keep Democrats from railroading Kavanaugh.

There are other echoes of 2016 on the Democratic side. Many now flock to the banner of “socialism” the way the Bannonites rallied for nationalism. And both sides are doubling down on identity politics — Trumpists rushing to the defense of men, and leftists calling out white women who don’t toe the line as “gender traitors.”

This is how we got here. It will get worse because there are no incentives to be better. It won’t end well either, but at least it will feel familiar.
Nibs

Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
Oct 10, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
thanks for posting...
are there enough of us just left/right of center to form a third party?

we are overdue for blowing up the two party system. And 3 isn't enough. a few more could force coalition and compromise.

compromise, currently an outdated concept.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 10, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
compromise, currently an outdated concept.

Compromise today merely means leaving the guillotine unsharpened.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 10, 2018 - 02:29pm PT
So back to the ongoing attempt to dismantle our democracy through strongman tactics...

The past 48 hours in Mueller investigation news, explained

http://flip.it/ssVVTq

Currently the cadre consists of a Vlad Putin, a narcissistic bafoon, his west wing allies, some Libertarian Corporate backers and a few congressional sycophants. When you have enough of these assho!es doing anything and everything to stay out of jail and maintain power, plus add a few DOJ and law enforcement officials starting to turn- the possibility of recruiting enough like minded thugs to form a Gestapo or Praetorian Guard style protection force will multiply rapidly.

Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Oct 10, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
compromise - the Dems have been doing it for decades, all while losing ground in the Federal Government.
 the Repubs have not.
Nibs

Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
Oct 10, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
perhaps you did not read the article Apogee posted...I thought it was cogent. I don't post often and moved to do so because that article is how I am reading the trend.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 10, 2018 - 04:47pm PT

Take the very high road or The Kav road, but don't forget to was up after.

Do you think the grabber would do Nikki?


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 10, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
There's a difference between conservatism and the GOP's politics. My sense from the conservatives that I know & deeply trust, and rational sources like National Review is that there's a LOT about the current 'leadership' in both the WH and Congress that they do not like at all. Yes, there are some policies and directions that align with their conservative views, but by and large they do NOT like the demeanor and tone that exists amongst the GOP, especially in the WH.

Those on the extreme end of the political spectrum tend to view the other side as homogenous....as though they are all the same. An honest effort to look more closely and listen tends to be quite enlightening.
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Oct 10, 2018 - 10:40pm PT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_znusoH51GU
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:28am PT
^^ making lemonade out of lemons...

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:47am PT
Nibs

thanks for posting...
are there enough of us just left/right of center to form a third party?

Yes. There are enough moderates for a third party.

Gallup regularly polls for party affiliation. Independents are larger than either party. Last month it was 44%. With Congress' consistently low favorably ratings, a middle of the road option would be welcome.

One big problem is the fringes are dominating the national conversation. Both sides constantly crow about the opposition. It's a vicious cycle.

Another problem is the two party have all the power and all the money. They'll fight tooth and nail to prevent a third party in the game. The devil you know.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:50am PT
One big problem is the fringes are dominating the national conversation.

Why do you say "fringes"? There is a right wing fringe called the GOP. The right/center party called Democrats is not a fringe. It's the middle. There's no left in this country. Sanders would be called a moderate in Europe.

It's kind of interesting that Kavanaugh believes people should be held accountable for infractions committed decades ago.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:53am PT
Both Brett and Ashley Kavanaugh served in the Bush administration
I remember reading that when Kavanaugh's name first popped up. I knew he was a loser then.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:05am PT
The right/center party called Democrats is not a fringe. It's the middle


dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:33am PT
^^^...and you voted for this racist piece of garbage:


HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:39am PT
^^^And you voted for this piece of garbage.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:53am PT
Yeah...ok...Kavanaugh has ties to the Bush administration. So what?

He's a conservative, and developed his career amongst people that aligned with his ideology. Nothing unusual about that- we all gravitate to careers and circles of people that share our beliefs.

It seems to me to be a pretty weak argument to try to de-legitimize Kavanaugh because of his association with a POTUS that was supremely unpopular with the left (myself included). The central issues here are whether Kavanaugh has the background to be in the role of SC justice (he does), whether he has some disqualifying life experience contrary to being in such an important role (that remains an open question), and whether he can truly act as a relatively objective justice (his display at the hearings strongly questions this) in critical matters of the judiciary.
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:56am PT
the two party have all the power and all the money. They'll fight tooth and nail to prevent a third party in the game.

unless it's someone like Bernie where you can guarantee all the votes will come from one or the other major party. Then bring it on. Divide and conquer.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:59am PT
Lol, clinton. Republican Party like it’s 1999. It’s all you’ve got.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 09:08am PT
Lol, clinton. Republican Party like it’s 1999. It’s all you’ve got

dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 09:13am PT

Anyone know what Hermie is trying to say?

Yes. Black Muslim democrat. Boo!
Trump

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 09:27am PT
Lol, clinton. Republican Party like it’s 1999. It’s all you’ve got.

It’s 2018 and all the Republican Party has got is the House, the Senate, and the Presidency, and now a conservative majority on the Supreme Court for many years to come.

You mad bro? It’s probably healthy for us to be able to lol about it.

Apogee no I don’t think they would do that if they could find a political way to avoid it.

Do you think that if the Republicans had delayed the confirmation and the Democrats had won the Senate, that the Democrats would have ever voted to confirm a conservative justice, or would we have punted it down the road and hoped for a Democratic President in 2020? What would we intelligent moral Democrats have insisted that our Democratic Senators do?

Is it as easy for us to point to our own disingenuous self-interested motivations as it is for us to point to theirs? Seems to me like we can’t even see them in ourselves.

But we seem awfully good at discounting the positive steps the other side takes as being transparently self-interested on their part, and condemning them for it, while approving of ourselves by ignoring the same kinds of things in ourselves.

I’m less concerned about what they do than I am about what I do, and the us that I most closely identify with does. And that looks to me more and more like the same thing they do. Maybe we’re all part of the same us that way.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 09:53am PT
You’re taking my statement out of context, but ok!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 11, 2018 - 09:56am PT
monolith

Oct 11, 2018 - 09:12am PT
Anyone know what Hermie is trying to say?

He's pointing out the hypocrisy of "liberals", when one of their own (allegedly) beats a woman.
Trump

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:01am PT
Sorry dirtbag. If you’ve got a more convincing argument to make than the ones that have created a Republican House, a Republican Senate, a Republican President, and a conservative majority on the Supreme Court, I’m all ears. The arguments that the Republicans have been making - the ones we laugh at as all they’ve got - have been beating us.
monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:11am PT
Sorta like how dems pushed Al Franken to resign, eh Sketch?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:15am PT
The GOP has done a great job gaming the system. It's called REDMAP

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/19/gerrymandering-republicans-redmap

That plan worked spectacularly. It's why today Republicans have a majority in nearly two-thirds of the country's state legislative chambers. And it's why in 2012 Democratic statehouse candidates won 51 percent of the vote in Pennsylvania, which voted for Barack Obama in the presidential election, yet those candidates ended up with only 28 percent of the seats in the legislature.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/06/01/616216560/episode-845-redmap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REDMAP
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:21am PT
Actually, in the scenario you suggested, I doubt that the Democrats would have been savvy enough to forestall naming another Justice for two years. It was a stretch for McConnell to do it for almost a year...I don't think the Democrats would be disciplined enough to do that for twice as long.

Trump would have named another candidate, and the Dems would fight it until they got one that was less extreme. Or the Red State Dems (Heitkamp, Manchin, etc.) would have caved and given Trump what he wanted.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:22am PT
Is it even possible to black out drinking beer? My fond memories of university life, and the random sampling of drunks in my dorm, seem to indicate other more potent libations are required.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:27am PT
Sorry dirtbag. If you’ve got a more convincing argument to make than the ones that have created a Republican House, a Republican Senate, a Republican President, and a conservative majority on the Supreme Court, I’m all ears. The arguments that the Republicans have been making - the ones we laugh at as all they’ve got - have been beating us.


I wish I did. Sorry. I have lots of thoughts, mostly unoriginal, but frankly I have no clue as to what would work. I am scared shitless that one party, elected by a minority of the electorate, is doing everything it can to permanently freeze out political opposition.

I will offer this. Democrats, and the wider American electorate, need to realize that the Republican Party has been waging a war on our democratic institutions, and we’d better quit sleepwalking and start fighting back hard and ruthlessly, or else our institutions might be forever lost.

Republican leadership does not give two shits about democracy. Obama failed to realize that fact, and that his political opponents were not operating in good faith, even when they openly stated that their goal was to crush him. We’ve been far too conciliatory.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:36am PT
What dirt said, plus...

For at least 20 years now, the GOP has not compromised on much of anything, while the Democrats have capitulated repeatedly. Even the more 'progressive' efforts like healthcare reform was essentially a Republican idea that is far from being truly progressive.

The net result is that politics in this country have been moved distinctly towards the right, a change so gradual that most of the loudest ranting Republicans aren't even aware of how far right they really are, historically speaking. Being equally aggressive (and potentially uncivil) is not my preferred strategy for regaining balance, but the Neville Chamberlain approach sure as hell hasn't worked worth a damn.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:39am PT
What apogee said.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:43am PT
monolith

climber
state of being

Oct 11, 2018 - 10:11am PT
Sorta like how dems pushed Al Franken to resign, eh Sketch?

They threw Franken under the bus for being crude. I guess that makes it okay to look the other way on domestic violence.

monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2018 - 10:47am PT
That's a funny interpretation, Sketch. Keep on entertaining us.

What Franken did was considered abuse towards a women by the dems, but I can see where you might think he was just being 'crude'.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:27am PT
monolith

climber
state of being

Oct 11, 2018 - 10:47am PT
That's a funny interpretation, Sketch. Keep on entertaining us.

What Franken did was considered abuse towards a women by the dems, but I can see where you might think he was just being 'crude'.

What's funny... actually it's sad... is the silence over Ellison's domestic violence.

Then again, rapist Bill Clinton is still "beloved" by the Dems.

Hypocrisy noted.
monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:28am PT
The head of your party endorses child rapist Roy Moore, Sketch.


Your hypocrisy noted, Sketch.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:31am PT
I haven't read all of the above, but here's a very good summary of the situation IMHO.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:36am PT
Thanks McGuzzy. I had actually read that a few days ago and think it is spot on.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 11:50am PT
What happened to Franken is why comedians don't perform on college campuses.

As for Kavanaugh, it comes down to he said/she said. The only way to come to some clarity is to scrutinize the credibility of the accuser and the accused.
We know much of Kavanaugh, but little of Ford.

To see the other side of the coin of rockermike's excellent video, here is a take by a Canadian professor. Good people see very different things...sigh.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
I tried watching that, Larry...I really did. The snarky commentary made it clear it was yet another biased rant, which many on the right will hold up as more 'valid' because it's coming from a woman.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
Your hypocrisy noted, Sketch.

I don't endorse him or Trump.

And still your tacit approval of Ellison persists.

I forgot how disingenuous you are.

Noted.
John M

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:20pm PT
that video posted by larry is full of biased holes. she said that people denied that the event happened. This is not true. They said that they did not remember. That is a big difference. Then she said that her friend should have remembered because the event took a lot longer then it takes to go to the bathroom.. this is again simply not true. Not if you really look at the event, which probably lasted less then 2 or 3 minutes. Which can be a lifetime if you are the one being abused, but is just moments if you are downstairs enjoying a party. She then smears Ford because she could not remember every detail of the assault. Yet experts say that it is common for assault victims to not remember many details. That video did not pass the smell test.

0/10 video Larry..

As for the argument that the evidence against Kavanaugh given at the interview should be held to some standard that would hold up in a court of law, then the investigation into the event should also rise to that level. In a trail, witnesses who could testify to the character or who could testify to similar behavior would have been interviewed and their testimony would have been put up to cross examination. This did not happen.
monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2018 - 12:24pm PT
You attack the left while pretending to be independant, Sketch, with arguments that are easily applied to the right. Your sham is quite transparent.

Noted.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 11, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
This is not true. They said that they did not remember. That is a big difference.

Lol... comon John...

So she ran out of the place after being viciously attacked and didn't tell/warn the only other female (her BFF too) of the drunken attackers... or mention it later to her.

Right....
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
are you a female, Fear?

if not then shut up, you don't know what you are talking about

stick to your tired ass conspiracy theories
dirtbag

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
What Norton said.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
Yes. There are enough moderates for a third party.

Gallup regularly polls for party affiliation. Independents are larger than either party. Last month it was 44%. With Congress' consistently low favorably ratings, a middle of the road option would be welcome.

One big problem is the fringes are dominating the national conversation. Both sides constantly crow about the opposition. It's a vicious cycle.

Another problem is the two party have all the power and all the money. They'll fight tooth and nail to prevent a third party in the game. The devil you know.

There aren't really that many swing voters any more. Yes, there are fewer voters registered with a party and more voters who will answer a poll that they are independent. But most of these voters, if they actually vote, vote the same party they did in the previous election. This is more true than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Winning "swing" voters doesn't matter near as much as getting "your voters" to come out and vote.

I can understand voters disgust at claiming a party. But more and more votes are taking place strictly along party lines. So the party that a given politician represents is much more important than that particular politician as an individual. Sucks, but that is the system we have.

Want anti-abortion Supreme Court justices, vote republican. Want to fight climate change, vote democrat. Doesn't matter which political race it is or the individual politicians.

And with the winner-take-all elections, you aren't ever going to have 3 significant parties. Sure, every now and then an independent will win some given election. And on very rare occasions a new party will rise up and replace an existing party, but once again you get left with two parties.

The only way to have a system where more than two parties matter is to go to proportional voting and that requires changing the constitution and that ain't happening.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
I find it interesting that Kavanaugh believes legal immigrants can be held accountable today for misdemeanors that occurred decades ago.
John M

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:37pm PT
So she ran out of the place after being viciously attacked and didn't tell/warn the only other female (her BFF too) of the drunken attackers... or mention it later to her.

yes.. that kind of thing happens. She was 15. She was traumatized. People in that condition are often not rational. Things go on autopilot. She may have looked for her friend and couldn't immediately find her, so she left. In that state, she could have rationalized that her friend already left. We don't know.

What we do have is her testimony which in my opinion is more believable then Kavanaugh's equivocations.

There is some belief that she is mistaken in her identification of her attacker. People misidentify their attacker often. But thats because there attacker is unknown to them. She knew her attackers, so I doubt that she misidentified them. She didn't have a fuzzy memory of who did it. She didn't get taken by surprise and had a blindfold put on her so that she couldn't see who did it and was then guessing. She saw who did it. I believe her.

Combine that with the obvious lies told by Kavanaugh during his testimony.. and thus I believe that he did it. He says he was a choirboy who occasionally drank beer. I don't believe that. I believe that he drank often and to excess and that he was abusive when he drank. There are multiple believable people out there who confirm that. But that wasn't investigated.

You are of course free to believe what you want.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
Yeah, the video I posted had a snarky tone to it...but it's a he said/she said scenario and the only way to come down on one side or the other is to either make big assumptions, or to investigate the credibility of the accused AND accuser.

Little is known of Ford, as her social media history was cleared out. I thought the interesting part of the biased video was the career and social setting she lives in.

John M... you are correct that a standard should be set on scrutiny, but is the new political standard for any uncorroborated allegation now "guilty until proven innocent"?

DC is mighty toxic right now, but we now know why thanks to science:
https://www.sciencealert.com/psychopath-capital-of-the-us-according-science-states-ranked-washington-dc
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 11, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
if not then shut up, you don't know what you are talking about

Lol... nice Norton.. stay classy.
John M

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 04:10pm PT
John M... you are correct that a standard should be set on scrutiny, but is the new political standard for any uncorroborated allegation now "guilty until proven innocent"?

Of course not, but a proper investigation should be done. And remember, this was not a trial. This was a job interview. If it had been a trial, then there should have been an impartial judge, a proper investigation and the lawyer from both sides should have been allowed to call whomever they wanted within the scope of the trial and cross examine each witness. Since he claimed he couldn't have done it because he was a "choirboy", then that should have been examined.

As a job interview, then its allowable that people decide who they believe. I believe Ford. Again, you are free to decide who you believe, just as you are free to decide who you will vote for.

Just based on his prevarications under oath, I would not consider Kavanaugh to be worthy of being on the supreme court.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
Oct 11, 2018 - 05:16pm PT
I suppose it would be OK if he was grabbing her pussy instead? (that photo is so shopped anyway)
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Oct 11, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
their
monolith

climber
state of being
Oct 11, 2018 - 05:51pm PT
Hermie is quite gullible.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:11pm PT
All Trump voter are...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
Fear...Do tell how women feel and think...
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
The more I think about it , I side with the woman ,for it was not anything she said, it was more because of what he said and how he said it

There you go.

Thanks Perswig, I still have to work to pay for it all. Second time. 40 years as a carpenter, I will never be fully out of it.




Newsflash,Sketch is an independent. Lol.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
As a historian, since this photo has shown up twice on this thread, I bristle at the whole lie it conveys. I wish to explain why the Democrats, who had their base in the redneck & racist Confederate States, & among the working class, became a whole different political party.


And why the Republicans, the enlightened party of Abraham Lincoln, who pushed a liberal agenda, became what they currently are, the ultra-conservative, nationalistic party of Trump.

It's all the fault of the Democratic Presidents Kennedy & LBJ. They courted black voters by attempting to right the century-old wrongs of segregation. First Kennedy & then more profoundly, Lyndon Johnson, a pragmatic & polical southerner, fixed many of the wrongs of segregation & thereby offended all those loveable, hard-working, religious, conservative, racist, white southerners, who then became conservative, racist Republicans in a few short years.

So Republicans don’t get to claim Lincoln as their founder any longer, since if slavery was still legal, the Republicans would agree it is a “sacred-institution,” & would fight to retain it.
WBraun

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
You politard people are as st00pid as the orange ape.

Can't wait till all you ape/monkey ancestor morons become extinct .....
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
I wish to explain why the Democrats, who had their base in the redneck & racist Confederate States, & among the working class, became a whole different political party.

Then why did they desegregate the Military?

Then why did they impose Jim Crow?

Then why did they put Japanese Americans in camps?

Then why are Democrats still telling women and blacks what to think? You obviously can't handle a different opinion.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:23pm PT
at best a 7th grade intellect
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:25pm PT
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:34pm PT
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
Ha, that's pretty funny HermitMaster!

You made a picture of Ronald Reagan on a horse and a one of President Obama on a bike!

So is your point that only one of them is smart enough to wear a helmet?

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 11, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:05pm PT


Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2018 - 08:06pm PT
Hermitmaster? Per your response to my post on why the racist & redneck south switched from Democrat to Republican & the Republicans are no-longer the liberal party of Abraham Lincoln:

Then why did they desegregate the Military?

Then why did they impose Jim Crow?

Then why did they put Japanese Americans in camps?

Then why are Democrats still telling women and blacks what to think? You obviously can't handle a different opinion.


I'm sorry you either choose to not understand, or simply can't understand, what has happened since the 1960's to the traditional Republican & Democratic parties.

Let me help you out:

Trumpian Republicans are mostly ultra-conservative & nationalistic, ultra-religious, opposed to immigration, full of fear of foreigners & those not white, feel that whites are discriminated against by current laws, dislike-change, & want lower taxes & less government interference. They mostly oppose birth control, abortion, gays, & especially same-sex marriage.

Obama Democrats are concerned for the environment, pro-immigration, don’t hate taxes, & welcome government programs & regulations, if their lives are improved by them. Other than that, they mostly hate would-be authority figures, who try to tell them how to think & what to do.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:08pm PT



HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:15pm PT
I'm sorry you either choose to not understand, or simply can't understand,

Then why can't you understand that people can have a different opinion than you. And, that it's OK. You don't have a monopoly on the truth. I, personally, don't see a lot of difference in what the Democrats have become. They've gone back to their roots.

Better, learn to get along with your fellow human beings. It will remake you from a being a bitter old man.

zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
Kidding aside Mr. Reagan was a great image and figurehead.


But in actuality give him credit for the S&L crisis and Iran contra


The crisis cost $160 billion. Taxpayers paid $132 billion, and the S&L industry paid the rest. The Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corporation paid $20 billion to depositors of failed S&Ls before it went bankrupt. More than 500 S&Ls were insured by state-run funds. Their failures cost $185 million before they collapsed.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
Hermitmaster! Re your comment:

Better, learn to get along with your fellow human beings. It will remake you from a being a bitter old man.

Pseudo-Christians hypocrites like you do get me fired-up, but don’t think I’m anywhere close to being as bitter as you.
My life is pretty fuking-gud!

The only thing I’m bitter about is, the arzehole president that is ruining the America I love & his clueless supporters like you, who think it’s wonderful.

Two weeks in Italy this fall with friends & my wonderful wife Heidi, including lots of hiking & fine wines.

Co-hosting Donini's City of Rocks party in June.

A blissful January visit to Maui with Heidi.

And lots of other retirement travel & fun with friends.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:36pm PT
Pseudo-Christians hypocrites like you do get me fired-up, but don’t think I’m anywhere close to being as bitter as you.

You didn't address my point. Why can't you learn to get along with people that have a different opinion than you?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:40pm PT
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
Hermitmaster!

Re your question:

You didn't address my point. Why can't you learn to get along with people that have a different opinion than you?


Thank you for explaining. I have lots of conservative & in some cases too-liberal friends, who I do not discuss politics with. That is a mutual unspoken agreement among friends who do not wish to be in conflict with each other.

What does that have to do with you posting right-wing arzehole cartoons & opinion on ST?

Do you just want those who disagree with your strange conservative agenda to shut up & keep-sweet?

What strange Trumpian religious universe do you live in?

john hansen

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
Today our 'genius' president said this about the Federal Reserve.

"I think the Fed is out of control

I think what they are doing is wrong

I think the Fed is far too stringent

And its not right



Despite that we are doing very well

But it is not necessary in my opinion

And I think I know about that better then they do"




It seems most of his lines are becoming stale from repetition.

"Wrong"

"Not right"

"Out of control"

"Doing very well"

"I know better than they do"

"Believe me"

"Disgusting"

"I will say this"

"We'll see we'll see"

I am glad we have such a well spoken and articulate man in the White House,,,,,,Not.


He can barely put together two coherent sentences without veering off on some tangent.


Even Fox news stopped airing his rally's because the ratings were low. He just goes thru the same routine over, and over,and over.


Praising himself,, always "Tremendous" "The Best Ever" and on and on and on . He has no clue what is really happening and will not listen to the experts on every thing from climate change to tariff's.







Urge any one you know who is over 18 to vote Nov 6th. The 18 to 30 vote is very important this year.



EDIT: Thank you for agreeing Anti Christ


rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 11, 2018 - 09:17pm PT
Hermitmaster....Perhaps you haven't seen Herr Fritzs pistolas...?
Nibs

Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
Oct 11, 2018 - 09:30pm PT
DMT, Thanks for posting that. reminded me of similar stories about Truman's accessibility.
different times and men.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 05:57am PT
"After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood."
Fred Thompson
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 12, 2018 - 06:19am PT
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 12, 2018 - 06:25am PT
Good one PC.

Cracked me up.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 12, 2018 - 06:34am PT
There's nothing more righteous than an American president honoring Nazis.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 06:38am PT
Then why can't you understand that people can have a different opinion than you. And, that it's OK. You don't have a monopoly on the truth. I, personally, don't see a lot of difference in what the Democrats have become. They've gone back to their roots.

Actually fritz is trying to teach you some facts about history. Southern CONSERVATIVE Democrats became southern CONSERVATIVE Republicans beginning in the 60s as lbj and the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, as well as progressive northern republicans, enacted civil rights laws and conservativd republicans (Nixon and Reagan) adopted the southern strategy (look it up). At roughly the same time, Libertarian type conservatives such as Goldwater opposed civil rights laws, giving southern conservatives a home and common cause. The old Dixiecrats are part of your party now, and have been for 40 or 50 years.


You can have your opinion, but not your facts. Sorry...Doesn’t work like that.
bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Oct 12, 2018 - 06:43am PT
Melania's donning a white pith helmet while traveling in Africa was a nice touch...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 12, 2018 - 06:52am PT
She was missing Donald and it reminded her of the toadstool...
dirtbag

climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 07:09am PT
There's nothing more righteous than an American president honoring Nazis.

Well great news, Gary. Our current president also thinks they’re just fine. Probably Illinois Nazis, too.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 12, 2018 - 07:09am PT
Dirtbag and the Internet Education of Littletree. you boys keep it up here, lots of good stuff happ'nin
dirtbag

climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 07:13am PT
Thank you. Hope autumn in Wyoming is lovely this year.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 14, 2018 - 11:04am PT
Trump spends 210th day golfing as president while Hurricane Michael victims pick up the pieces


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 14, 2018 - 11:15am PT
A Golf Truce?
By KEVIN D. WILLIAMSON
September 5, 2018 6:30 AM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/presidents-playing-golf-not-a-problem/

There’s nothing wrong with a president who plays golf, so let’s stop pretending there is.

Some recent headlines:

Trump has visited his golf courses for 25 percent of his time in office
Washington Mourned John McCain. President Trump Played Golf
Trump tweets and plays golf as Washington mourns John McCain
Trump hides losses at golf courses in Scotland from voters

(That last one is about financial losses, not sporting losses.)

And some less recent headlines:

Obama’s Hypocrisy on Full Display as He Golfs While Louisiana Drowns
President Obama Golfs 52 Times While U.S. Suffers
Obama Hits Golf Course After Briefed on Berlin Truck Attack
We’ve crunched the numbers, and it’s official: President Obama played A LOT of golf while in office

And, if all that is not petty and trivial enough for you:

Who Looks Better While Golfing: Trump or Obama?




Look, I don't like this guy any more than any other reasonable person does, but ankle-biting arguments like how much he plays golf are just noise. There is a plethora of far more relevant policy & demeanor issues to focus on with this narcissistic POTUS.
perswig

climber
Oct 14, 2018 - 11:36am PT
Totally want this book:

"Whose Boat Is This Boat? Comments That Don’t Help in the Aftermath of a Hurricane is a picture book made entirely of quotations from President Donald Trump in the wake of Hurricane Florence. It is the first children’s book that demonstrates what not to say after a natural disaster.

On September 19, 2018, Donald Trump paid a visit to New Bern, North Carolina, one of the towns ravaged by Hurricane Florence. It was there he showed deep concern for a boat that washed ashore. “At least you got a nice boat out of the deal,” said President Trump to hurricane victims. “Have a good time!” he told them. The only way his comments would be appropriate is in the context of a children’s book—and now you can experience them that way, thanks to the staff of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.

Whose Boat Is This Boat? is an excellent teaching tool for readers of all ages who enjoy learning about empathy by process of elimination. Have a good time!"

Dale
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 14, 2018 - 12:12pm PT
yes, Apogee, many Presidents played golf while in office

however, only one promised to NOT Play

"I'm going to be working for you. I'm not going to have time to go play golf." --Donald J. Trump, August, 2016

in addition and because Trump often bashed President Obama for playing golf


Days Trump has spent at Mar a Lago:

72

Cost of flights to Mar a Lago (17 so far):*

~$35,209,000

Days Trump has spent at Bedminster:

58

Cost of flights to Bedminster (19 so far):*

~$14,392,000

Trump has visited his clubs once every this many days since his inauguration:

4.3

Projected visits to golf clubs in four years:

337

Projected visits in eight years:

675

Total times Obama played golf during his eight year Presidency:
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 14, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2018 - 06:46pm PT
We watched the 60 Minutes interview of Trump tonight. It didn't change our opinion that he is an arzehole.

Did anyone see the program, & thinks he looked wonderful?

And why do you think that, if you did?
dirtbag

climber
Oct 14, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
Is that a maga rally or a tea party protest?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 14, 2018 - 07:11pm PT
It's a Hillary / Boxer / Booker fundraiser.

"Give us your money and go harass Republicans.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 14, 2018 - 07:18pm PT




[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
Mguzzy! Thanks for the Vox link. Here's a little more, but for the whole story of Trump evading, lying, & denying, his way through the interview go to the article link: https://www.vox.com/2018/10/14/17975644/trumps-60-minutes-interview-transcript

Donald Trump trusts Kim Jong Un but not American climate scientists. He knows more about NATO than Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis. He thinks the European Union was created to take advantage of America on trade. And he isn’t sure whether or not Vladimir Putin is involved in assassinations.

In short, his sit-down interview with 60 Minutes’ Lesley Stahl revealed the president of the United States to be grossly dishonest, woefully ill-informed, and congenitally incapable of admitting error or demonstrating any kind of moral or intellectual growth.

He is, in other words, totally unfit for high office and fairly obviously so. Even more amazingly, despite Stahl covering an incredibly wide range of issues, she broke essentially no new ground. Every terrible, disqualifying thing he said was something he’s said before.

Donald Trump says a lot of things that aren’t true

I’ve written up a lot of Trump interviews, and one untrue thing he almost invariably says is that the US trade deficit with China costs us $500 billion a year. This is neither how trade deficits work, nor the correct figure which should be more like $350 billion.

For Sunday night’s performance, Trump was seemingly prepped that his number is wrong, but instead of using the accurate one he simply modified his usually statement, telling Stahl “I told president XI, we cannot continue to have China take $500 billion a year out of the United States in the form of trade and other things.”
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 14, 2018 - 07:42pm PT
Yes, Jim, we all know how important it is for us to vote for change. I don’t think there’s much doubt as to whether the polititards here will vote in November, or which way they’ll go. The tougher question is how to get younger or disenfranchised people to the polls...that’s more than a third of the electorate, and we all know which way they’d likely roll if they actually showed up.

Anyway, it’s been a relatively quiet several days for the WH...makes you wonder what’s coming down the pike this week...
John M

climber
Oct 14, 2018 - 07:46pm PT
All of the Bernie voters stayed home in order to give a f*#k you letter to Hillary.

nonsense...
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 14, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
^+1^
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 14, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
Behave politically if you want to change policy. The first thing to do is get active and vote for your candidate.

You on the right path Jim

The Bernie voters behavior seems to me to be
mainly an empirical issue

I have no idea if it's true or not

So where is the empiricism?


Whining about what an asswholeTrump is may be great fun, but it's still just (un)funny whining

It's almost as effective as complaining about what a horrible spelling corrector an Apple is

dirtbag

climber
Oct 15, 2018 - 06:47am PT
Ground chuck, I hear ya, unfortunately we are stuck with this babbling f*#k.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 15, 2018 - 06:51am PT

LOL
dirtbag

climber
Oct 15, 2018 - 06:52am PT
Anyway, it’s been a relatively quiet several days for the WH...makes you wonder what’s coming down the pike this week...

One thing I’ve learned about this one is that every three or four weeks the sh#t hits the fan. We’re about due. It would be good timing, too, with the election in only three weeks.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 15, 2018 - 07:58am PT
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 15, 2018 - 08:10am PT
Stop the madness. And I thought the Oval Office performance with Kanye was as low as it could go. Vote Blue on November 6.
+1


We don't matter to him his position matters to him. He's not here for the American people, he's here for his own ego.
been saying this all along.




Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2018 - 09:19am PT
More proof of just how much Trump & his congressmen love Veterans, from what most folks would agree is a "somewhat-conservative" magazine, Forbes.

Veterans Sustain Two Serious Defeats From Trump And The House To VA Health Care

https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2018/06/08/veterans-sustain-two-serious-defeats-from-trump-and-the-house-to-va-health-care/?fbclid=IwAR0hWD0qwvwsXtuYPuCLS2gmLSPv59iRYQScJZjl5lRogMPN26Pkosuxen8#58fb6ea82c5a
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Oct 15, 2018 - 10:30am PT
Well, the NYT had a long article on Saturday, showing that Kushner had income of over $300 million in the last decade, but paid little income tax. Combine that with the article ten days ago that showed that almost all Trump’s money up to 2000 was given to him by his father, and often acquired and transferred by shady if not criminal means. Often to bail out Donnie’s failed businesses. And that a Democratic house seems likely to immediately subpoena the tax returns for Trump and all his companies and relations. And that’s not counting whatever Mueller, and prosecutors in New York, are finding.

Edit: Whether or not Trump's voters care about income tax investigations, Mueller's work, or the work of the New York state prosecutors, makes no difference. If/when he's charged, we'll see how it plays out. The Times strategy of focusing on his past and his associates is uncovering serious malfeasance.

That said, the goal of the Democrats for 2018 and (especially) 2020 is to make the case for how they'd do things different or better. Why waste time assailing Trump's (lack of) character, which is well known even to his supporters?

As for that revolting piece of "art"? Well, Roosevelt I would probably have punched Trump out. And I doubt that Lincoln, Bush I, Bush II or Eisenhower would have sat at the same table with him.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 15, 2018 - 11:16am PT
From what I'm reading, Trump-family taxes & Mueller's report aren't as high on the voters minds as you might think. There's so much chaos associated with this 'administration', it creates a numbing effect to almost anything new.

If this uber-chaos approach was intended, it seems like it's working- it so hard to keep track of it all, what you are left with is how is your life right now. A productive economy and low unemployment is probably much more front & present in the minds of swing voters.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 15, 2018 - 11:19am PT
I would love for our next president to be boring.
perswig

climber
Oct 15, 2018 - 11:33am PT
Apogee's post hits the 10 ring.
I don't know about the 'intended' part, but between those who don't really care how cavalier he has been with language, appearances, respect from world bodies and leaders OR respect for others, and those who don't see the financial issues or borderline nepotism that he has trended toward, the gains made in the last 2-3 quarters are likely to influence their mid-term decisions.
Even if those gains could potentially be attributable to delayed effects from the prior administration.

The Dems have done little to get their thumb out and offer a concise plank position for any of the above, nor to provide new blood that would inspire swing voters to come to their side or even get out to vote this November. Inertia, lack of motivation, and hysteria-fatigue may again allow change to slip through their hands now and quite possibly in 2020.

Dale
dirtbag

climber
Oct 15, 2018 - 01:44pm PT
My prediction, fwiw, is that November 7 will be a very bad day for roger stone. That is the day when Mueller’s pre election exile ends.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 15, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
That interview says a lot,I certainly will not worry ,but,that was the face of a desperate man.

His heart rate must be sky high,he does not drink or smoke.

This is what two many cheeseburgers and no cardiac looks like ,despite his demeanor.

It won’t be long now.


Lol.


Winning. Whining.

Is there a difference ,really.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 15, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
The similar 'tude of Charlie Sheen and the "winning"-est, least truth-iest Prez is telling. Winning with stds, failed tax evasion schemes, yeah, they're winners alright. I'd laugh if my head were not buried in the sand to keep the fuzzy-minded distraction-tactic clamor out.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 15, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
It is truly comedic,really.

Does anyone have friends close to what he is.

I hear you TBC,trying to stay 2 days behind.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 15, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
If you want to change policy. The first thing to do is get active and vote for your candidate.

Noppity, nope, nope.

Voting for my candidate does Jack.


If you want to change policy, the first thing to do is to move to a swing district/state.

Otherwise you are just screaming at the wind.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 15, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
True August,a lot of folks cannot seem to grasp that.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 15, 2018 - 06:41pm PT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 15, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
Yes, electoral college statements always bring up communism.

Get a grip. Really.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 15, 2018 - 06:55pm PT
John Wayne and crew died of thyroid cancer as result of downwind Western filming after nuke test. What a wimp...... ;-). besides, didn't you know about the R. Hardson cknnection?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 15, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
Meme vs meme
dirtbag

climber
Oct 15, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
Civility.






Family values.



Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
Last night after the 60 Minutes Trump interview aired, I posted this on this thread.

We watched the 60 Minutes interview of Trump tonight. It didn't change our opinion that he is an arzehole.

Did anyone see the program, & thinks he looked wonderful?

And why do you think that, if you did?

In response, we get a a Donald Trump is Winning post from EddieT & two politcal cartoons from Hermitmaster.

Thank you conservatives, for your eloquent replies.

nah000

climber
now/here
Oct 15, 2018 - 08:58pm PT
given this appears to be the politico thread du jour:



i’d like to suggest that we collectively [republican, independent, foreigner, democrat, etc and etc] take a moment to stand in awed silence.

why you might be asking?

i believe a moment of silence is due to honour this specific day... a day that i believe history will show to be the precise one where the established democratic party completed their jumping of the shark.

that is because this is the day where one of the few remaining democrats who might have had any hope of combining an existing national stage presence without all of the baggage of the clinton era dinosaurs, decided that releasing that she might be at best 1/64 cherokee and at worst 1/1024 peruvian [or less non-european than the average european descendant] would justify her being lauded as a “person of color” hire by elements within harvard.

while i’ve always had a soft spot for ms. warren and her politics, this gaffe shows such egregious political miscalculation that i believe it is the onion that has summed up this debacle most effectively:




and so to recap:

the party that thought it best to elect one of the most devisive political candidates in the history of polling for that sort of thing, to go up against a one mr. trump, and then after losing, chose to focus the majority of their energy on finger pointing at the russians, has now shown that one of the few great white [ha!] hopes they had...

has the political acumen of a grade seven candidate for junior high treasurer.



so a good bye to the democratic party that we all knew and loved/hated...

and a hello [barring a mueller flank or phoenician rise] to six more years of trumpian dynasty.




so please if you will... if you see the same things that i do...

let us all take a moment of silence as we hope for a phoenix to rise from the ashes...

given the u.s. of a. only has two primary parties, to be reduced down to only one should be understood to bring nothing of non-catastrophic good...

whatever your political leanings.

[one part /s and one part completely serious... finally: this political message was paid for by the letter f and the number 2]
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Oct 15, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
To be totally honest my first instinct was to stomp.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 15, 2018 - 11:04pm PT
You know what's really funny about this:

While John Wayne was playing soldier in the movies, Gus Hall, chairman of the Communist Party USA, had volunteered for the Navy and served in the South Pacific during WWII.

Typical, right wingers like to talk the talk, but not walk the walk.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 16, 2018 - 07:03am PT
On June 1, 2016 at a town hall meeting sponsored by PBS, Eric Cottonham, a steel workers' union member from Indiana, asked President Barack Obama about manufacturing jobs creation, saying, "All of our jobs have left, or are in the process of leaving."

In response, Obama noted that some jobs have gone overseas and that "I've been trying to negotiate trade deals ..." so overseas competitors "aren't undercutting us." Notably, Obama said that some jobs "are just not going to come back" while criticizing then-candidate Donald Trump for promising to "negotiate a better deal" and mocking him by claiming Trump would need a "magic wand" to fulfill his job promises.

In the 17 months prior to Obama's town hall (January 2015 to May 2016), the U.S. Department of Labor calculated that 40,000 manufacturing jobs (seasonally adjusted) had been created for a total of 12,336,000 jobs, anemic growth of about 0.3% over the period. By December 2016, Obama's last full month in office, manufacturing employment was up 55,000 jobs from January 2015.

On October 5, 2018, the Department of Labor released its national jobs report for September, showing unemployment had hit a 49-year-low at 3.7% with 134,000 jobs added last month of which 18,000 were in manufacturing.

Of note, in the 21 months since his inauguration, President Trump's deregulatory policies and historic tax cuts have led to a manufacturing resurgence, with 396,000 jobs added. In fact, the pace of manufacturing job growth over the past 21 months of President Trump's leadership is more than 10 times that of President Obama's last 21 months in office.

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/trumps-economy-creating-manufacturing-jobs/

Winning!
dirtbag

climber
Oct 16, 2018 - 08:07am PT
Nah, I agree.

I don’t see what the point of the test was. Trump’s base enjoy the racist insults, and decent people didn’t care. I’ve always thought the Pocahontas insults backfire outside of his base. Trump’s response “who cares” was actually spot on.

This seems to be a personal issue for her. It’s rather trivial and frankly whiny. She needs to set that aside.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 16, 2018 - 08:15am PT
dirtbag

climber
Oct 16, 2018 - 08:24am PT
Hillary again?


Lol.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 16, 2018 - 09:49am PT
“Hillary again?”

The midterm polls must be looking worse for Republicans...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 16, 2018 - 09:53am PT
“Hillary again?”

The midterm polls must be looking worse for Republicans...

"Absolutely not!"

<cackle>
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 16, 2018 - 09:56am PT
Much as I appreciate some of Warren’s progressive views, she’d make a poor choice for the Dems in 2020. Any candidate is going to have to have the balls (figuratively) and thick skin to go up against Trumps wall of blather and bullsh#t....Warren doesn’t strike me as having enough chutzpah for such a task. Hell, running the US would be easy compared with getting through the campaign process against Trump.
okay, whatever

climber
Oct 16, 2018 - 10:44am PT
I like McGuzzy's suggestion, however unlikely it may be that a Democratic (or Independent) candidate could avoid "campaign combat".
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 16, 2018 - 10:52am PT
I look forward to getting past the midterms. Then we can get on with the circus of pre-primary jockeying.

According to NBC:

Everyone's Running for President in 2020

In an political environment in which everything seems possible, it seems just about every Democrat in America is running for president.


Serious clown car comedy coming up.

Maybe the Dems can select a moderate. They'd get my vote. How about Mark Cuban? He could crush Trump's business resume. He can stand his ground in the face of Trump's bully bluster.

Elizabeth Warren may already be toast. Her DNA announcement was all kinds of stupid.

I always liked the circus. Can't wait.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 16, 2018 - 11:28am PT
Stormy Daniels called "Horseface" by a horse's ass.
Trump

climber
Oct 16, 2018 - 12:52pm PT
Hillary again?

Hillary again? again?

Somebody under 60, please!

14 or fight!

MGuzzy I hope someone can devise a strategy that is effective as the one he uses. If it’s a strategy of outpsychologizing his psychological manipulations, great!, if it works. Doesn’t seem like we’ve got those details worked out quite yet, though, any more than we did the last time he was such an easily outmaneuvered opponent.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 16, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
14 or fight!

What's black and blue and hates sex?


The 14 year-old tied up in the back of Air Force One.

Donald Trump's stretch of bad weeks just got a bit worse. A lawsuit against the presumptive GOP nominee alleges he raped a girl when she was 13 years old.

The lawsuit describes a "savage sexual attack" in 1994 alleging Trump tied the girl to a bed before raping and hitting her. The woman also claims Trump threatened her family if she told anyone.

The plaintiff says: "Immediately following this rape, Defendant Trump threatened me that, were I ever to reveal any of the details of Defendant Trump's sexual and physical abuse of me, my family and I would be physically harmed if not killed."
dirtbag

climber
Oct 16, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
President toadstool penis.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 16, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
How about a fair Democratic primary ,keep the Clinton out and I agree someone under 60.


But,if the public wants someone like Bernie and I believe he could bring more younger and independent voters then so be it.

Someone will arise,how could they not.

George Clooney would crush Trump,just think about that.

Mighty Hiker,the majority of this country did do better. 3 million people is a about the population of Western New York.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Oct 16, 2018 - 05:58pm PT
We know that Edward T loves a circus, hence his current political affiliation.

How about the Republicans pick a moderate, if there is such a thing anymore? Everyone has to bend down and kiss the ring or gets banished by der fuhrer.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 16, 2018 - 06:20pm PT
Who is kissing Saudi butt now?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 16, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
you are one clueless twit, "xCon"

President Obama had very good reason, backed by the Republican Armed Services Chairman, to threaten veto of that legislation, and it had nothing to do with kissing any Arah's ass

Though the concept of sovereign immunity generally shields governments from lawsuits, the bill creates an exception that allows foreign governments to be held responsible if they support a terrorist attack that kills U.S. citizens on American soil. Opponents say that's a slippery slope considering that the U.S. is frequently accused wrongly by its foes of supporting terrorism.

"Americans are in countries all over the world," House Armed Services Committee Chairman Mac Thornberry, a Republican, wrote Friday in a letter urging colleagues not to support a veto. "Many of those countries do not respect the rule of law, and we cannot expect their responses to be as measured and narrow as ours."

https://www.businessinsider.com/obama-vetoes-bill-911-victims-sue-saudi-arabia-2016-9
A Essex

climber
Oct 16, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
Horseface is a great word to teach children
john hansen

climber
Oct 16, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
Essex , exactly.


In the seventh grade we were playing base ball during recess and this kid Rocky was laughing at some one calling him a "p" liquor a few times,, if you get my drift, trying to keep it PC.

So this new kid Brad who had recently arrived in the then small town of Auburn from LA or the bay area,
says, " Hey Rocky, whats wrong with being a p liquor? " Rocky was quite
shocked, and lost a lot of swagger that day.

Another recess another base ball game , the guy with the country upbringing that led to him brawling with somebody every week or two, was going after Brad saying " I'm calling you out" Brad started laughing and said said " I'm not going to fight you " Kenny said " what are you a chicken ?"

Brad laughed at him again and said " No way man,,,you'd kick my ass. "


We need someone like Brad to run against Trump ( if he makes it that far)

Someone who can pop his bubble and laugh in his face when he tells all his lies and proclaim's his magnificence.

Lately I have been getting a few calls, you know the one..

Sir I am from the same security firm that called before about your computer,,,

I string them along for a few minutes,, umm,, OK, yes my computer is on,,
then when they get to the part about opening windows and stuff, I start laughing, slow at first, and then saying 'Come on man, your kidding me ..' They always hang up right away. Next time I will say 'You are a con man, a liar and a thief.'


Just like our dear Mr President
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 16, 2018 - 09:03pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Oct 17, 2018 - 07:48am PT
If that is the case I'd recommend the democratic party starts to reach out to those voters now and find some common ground and common cause and stop the incessant name calling and marginalization.

Or not. Whatever.

DMT

The problem goes beyond insults. That would be a simple fix. There are ideological differences between rural, more conservative populations and urban, more progressive populations that are becoming exacerbated as we become increasingly hyperpartisan. That’s much more difficult terrain to navigate.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 17, 2018 - 08:27am PT
One factor that has historically brought Americans together was a common enemy. An enemy that threatened all of us. Whether it was wars or just Cold Wars, our adversary brought us together for everyone's benefit.

We've become increasingly polemic since the end of the Cold War. 9/11 brought us together, briefly. But then we invaded Iraq. Dumb move.

It's been "you're an idiot, I'm right" ever since.

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 17, 2018 - 08:47am PT
Make no mistake, tRump's utter contempt for the truth is what sent us into never-never land of hyperbole.
John M

climber
Oct 17, 2018 - 09:17am PT
you can't just blame trump. people in general are just too willing to believe the worst about someone that they don't like and conversely are unwilling to believe something negative about someone they do like. So we get these poles. And then we have media exacerbating this and you end up with the mess that we currently have.

Add in people who are either too black and white in their thinking, or are too "gray area" in their thinking, and finding balance is nearly impossible.

My belief is that we need both, but we have to be careful about how we use them. We need a level of black and white thinking, i.e. some things are just wrong, but we have to be careful because its too easy to get out of balance with black and white thinking. We also need a level of gray thinking because not everything is black and white. yet that can be taken too far because then everything could be explained away. " Its all good" is an example of gray thinking. No.. its not all good. Rape isn't "good".

If you examine the political parties, then one can see that where republicans tend to go south is a too rigid level of black and white thinking, "you are either with us or against us". That kind of thinking tends to make people too harsh. Where democrats tend to go off the reservation is with gray thinking, "its all good". That kind of thinking leads to people being too lenient.

The answer lays with a blend of the two kinds of thinking. Hopefully some day we will get to the point where we can do that. This is what good leaders are suppose to leads us towards.

Trump

climber
Oct 17, 2018 - 09:22am PT
It’s only effective if you don’t play into it.

Kind of a tough one. I’d feel better about our ability to not play into it if our comments to the forum weren’t about Trump, and we weren’t planning to vote for someone based on their reaction to Trump.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 17, 2018 - 09:30am PT
Trump is simply a reflection of our culture and society. It took nearly half of the voters to make a decision to check the box for this guy, either because they were willing to overlook his negatives, or because they actually approve of his behaviors. The problem is much less about Trump, and much more about our society.

Edit:
"One factor that has historically brought Americans together was a common enemy."

I'd like to think that our country was intelligent enough to see that Trump is a clear and present danger, but apparently not.
Trump

climber
Oct 17, 2018 - 09:51am PT
Rape isn’t good. I’m with you there.

And also from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape

“It has been noted that behavior resembling rape in humans is observed in the animal kingdom, including ducks and geese, bottlenose dolphins, and chimpanzees. Indeed, in orangutans, close human relatives, copulations of this nature may account for up to half of all observed matings. Such behaviors, referred to as 'forced copulations', involve an animal being approached and sexually penetrated as it struggles or attempts to escape.”

What’s good is to believe advantageous beliefs absolutely, black and whitely, whether they’re gray or not, and whether they’re true or not.

And that’s what got us here - our silly tribal evolutionarily-advantageous me-centric belief processes.

Shoot, maybe that’s not so good, but it’s what we do anyway. And whatever you do, you’d better not stop believing that YOU’RE good.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 17, 2018 - 09:55am PT
Somebody under 60, please!

DMT

I wish the constitution had a maximum age limit. Maybe that you couldn’t start a term if you would be 65 by the end of it.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 17, 2018 - 10:02am PT
I'd like to think that our country was intelligent enough to see that Trump is a clear and present danger

We've been hearing that for two years. Yet....

The Economy is doing great.

The stock market is doing great.

Unemployment is at historic lows.

Manufacturing jobs are increasing.

The Fed has been able to consistently raise rated after keeping them near zero for eight years.

So far, we've avoided any new foreign conflicts.

I'm not saying Trump hasn't done some crappy things, like undoing a lot of Obama's accomplishments. But life for the average American seems no worse... arguably better... since Trump was elected.

of course you will not give a concrete example of how to reach out to bigots

How about trying to not be such an intolerant as#@&%e to fellow Americans, who may not embrace your views???
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 17, 2018 - 10:08am PT

Add in people who are either too black and white in their thinking, or are too "gray area" in their thinking, and finding balance is nearly impossible

X2 Johnm

Its all relative to experience. With the average iq at 100 and the majority of the public watching teevee and being spoonfed garbage 24x7, there is little critical thought taking place. By design.

Orange man satanic Hitler! Vs Orange man Heroic Savior! When in reality the Orange man is but a pawn with a small role to play.

dirtbag

climber
Oct 17, 2018 - 10:45am PT
Speaking of mueller, we should hear from him shortly after the election on the russia and obstruction investigations.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/mueller-said-ready-to-deliver-key-findings-in-his-trump-probe

But, will these reports see the light of day, or will trump fire everyone involved and stuff the Department of justice full of his cronies to hide its findings?

The weeks following November 6 could be among the bumpiest in our nation’s history. Or, it could fizzle.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 17, 2018 - 10:52am PT
We've been hearing that for two years. Yet....

The Economy is doing great.

The stock market is doing great.

Unemployment is at historic lows.

Manufacturing jobs are increasing.

Wait for it. It usually takes the Republican president a good two to three years to send the economy into recession.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/should-markets-expect-a-recession-every-republican-since-teddy-roosevelt-has-had-one-in-their-first-term-2018-05-02
U.S. stock-market investors should know better than to base their investments on superstitions or trivia, but there’s a curious trend that has persisted for decades that could serve as yet another reason to be cautious about markets.

Since the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, who left office in 1909, every single Republican president has seen a recession take hold in their first term.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/11/20/trumps-turn-republican-presidents-rule-recessions/93976832/
History could portend a bad omen for President-elect Donald Trump: recessions are more common under Republican presidents.

Every Republican president since Teddy Roosevelt in the early 1900's endured a recession in their first term, according to an analysis from Sam Stovall, chief investment strategist at stock research firm CFRA. Four Republican presidents suffered through two recessions while in office and Republican President Dwight Eisenhower presided over three. Meanwhile, Democrats have largely skated past the recession quicksand. Four in five Democratic presidents saw no recessions during their terms since 1945, Stovall says.

http://presidentialdata.org/
Believe it or Not!
Democratic Presidents Manage the Economy Better Than Republicans

Politifact truth-o-meter: Stock Market does better under Democratic Presidents than Republican Presidents
Nine of the last ten recessions have occurred under Republican Presidents.
Democratic presidents create nearly twice as many jobs per year as Republican Presidents.
Republican presidents' deficits are 25% larger than Democrats' and 63% higher as a percent of GDP.
GDP grows 44% faster under Democratic Presidents.
Business investment has grown twice as fast under Democratic Presidents than under Republican Presidents.
Forbes Guest Post (11/7/16): The Economy Does Better Under The Democrats

Of course, as Ronald Raygun pointed out, "Facts are stupid things."

Nibs

Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
Oct 17, 2018 - 10:57am PT
Dirt bag is correct noting the rural urban divide. This is what my friends in Trinity and Siskiyou counties talk about. For years they have felt that divide, underrepresented in Sac, and urbanites dictating the regulations rural hard working folks have to live by. Talking recently they still support Trump because they think someone finally has their back.

We listen to each other with respect. Salt of the earth they are…and they respect that maybe I have read a few more books. We give each other something to think about.

As Edward said, try not to be such intolerant as#@&%es to fellow Americans. (goes both ways Ed)
Nibs

Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
Oct 17, 2018 - 11:44am PT
I don't compromise my views, I put them in a context. and I listen.

oh, and no shouting. usually there is a lot of laughter because we are friends first.

ymmv
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 17, 2018 - 11:52am PT
"The Economy is doing great.

The stock market is doing great.

Unemployment is at historic lows.

Manufacturing jobs are increasing.

The Fed has been able to consistently raise rated after keeping them near zero for eight years."


None of which are directly a result of Trump's economic policies or actions. Economic swings are on an entirely different time scale than presidential terms. Trump or Hillary, the same economic results you describe would have happened.

Reasonably politically savvy people know this is true, but the political fodder that these conditions create is what swings elections.

What is unique to a presidential term is demeanor, tone, and being a representative to the country and the world of what America is. It's pretty hard for a reasonable person to argue that Trump has brought this to a new low.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Oct 17, 2018 - 12:03pm PT
Trump is the archetypal Ugly American and has been quite an embarrassment to our country. He hasnt done anything nearly as bad as GWB though. The war in Iraq was unforgivable, imo the worst crime in the entire world in my lifetime. Kavanaugh was chief of staff for GWB during that, also assistant to AG Alberto Gonzales, involved in new torture policy, NSA wiretapping and whatnot. I'm not sure Trump is worse than Obama on those issues.

Kavanaugh himself is a soulless worm, regardless of whether he's liberal or conservative. I endorsed Neil Gorsuch and think he's been a great judge. (Im also a member of both DC and 10th circuits)
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 17, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
Well, it's a fine hair to split, but GWB struck me as much more of a puppet to the neocons & establishment GOP...Cheney & co. were the true 'minds' behind all that madness. GWB played more of a role as the face of the whole administration.

Trump, on the other hand...it's pretty much all Trump. The 'leadership' is pretty much his own, and if it's not, he takes credit for it. GWB was nowhere near as ugly and brash as Trump.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 17, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
What's the difference between the Central Park Five and the Saudis?

The Central Park Five didn't rent from trump.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 17, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
OR commit murder.


Sheesh! "rogue killers"?? Really?
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 17, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
Good to point that out
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 17, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
If trump is re-elected, I can see him pushing for an amendment to the Constitution that would allow him a third, and possibly fourth term.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 17, 2018 - 02:31pm PT
2/3 requirement

Unlikely

But trump could try
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2018 - 04:10pm PT
Trump's big tax cuts for corporations & the rich are going to hurt all of us. Thanks Republicans!

From the N.Y. Times.

The Treasury Department released figures on Monday showing the federal budget deficit widened by 17 percent in the 2018 fiscal year, to $779 billion. That’s an unusual jump for a year in which unemployment hit a five-decade low and the economy experienced a significant economic expansion. But the increase demonstrates that the tax cuts President Trump signed into law late last year have reduced federal revenues considerably, even against the backdrop of a booming economy.

Some conservatives don’t see the rising deficit numbers that way. They note that the Treasury reported that federal revenues rose by 0.4 percent from the 2017 fiscal year to the 2018 fiscal year, and view that as a sign that the tax cuts are “paying for themselves,” as Republicans and Mr. Trump promised.

That’s not the case.

There are several ways to ask the question, “Are tax cuts paying for themselves?” Based on the data we have right now, they all arrive at the same answer: “No.”

Federal revenues are falling well short of projections — even with strong economic growt.

The issue here is not whether the government spends too much money, or whether tax cuts have buttressed economic growth, or even whether it’s advisable to run such high deficits in flush economic times.

The issue instead is: Have the corporate and individual tax cuts that went into effect in January generated so much additional growth that tax revenues are as high, or higher, today than they would have been if the tax cuts never passed? That’s how all scorekeepers — be they independent congressional staff members or researchers from think tanks that lean liberal or conservative — assess the “pay for themselves” question.

By the Treasury’s numbers, total revenues grew 0.4 percent from the 2017 fiscal year to the 2018 fiscal year. That’s weak, historically speaking, for an economy growing as fast as it is; in the 2015 fiscal year, when growth was comparable to what it is today, revenues grew 7.5 percent from the previous year.

The weak growth brought revenue as a share of gross domestic product down, something that typically happens in — or around — a recession, not deep into a robust expansion that the Fed has described as a “particularly bright” moment.

But revenue is definitely growing after the tax cuts, right?
Well, no.

The fiscal year runs from the start of October to the end of September. The tax cuts mostly took effect in January 2018. That means three months of the 2018 fiscal year included a period without the tax cuts in place. If you look only at the nine months after the cuts took effect, you’ll see that revenue is ever so slightly down, year over year: From January through September 2017, revenues were $2.57 trillion. For the same period in 2018, they were $2.56 trillion. Which is to say, they’re down by $10 billion, in a direct comparison after the tax cuts started. Personal tax receipts are up on their own, but corporate tax receipts are down by about a third from a year ago.

That overall drop looks worse when you consider inflation. A dollar today buys about 2 percent less than it did a year ago, according to the inflation index used by the Federal Reserve to set monetary policy. So the government brought in slightly less money year over year, and that money was worth less than the equivalent amount a year ago, which means it buys fewer meals for troops, materials for highway construction or any of the other goods and services that tax dollars go toward.
This is exactly what most forecasters predicted.

When the tax law passed, members of Congress had all sorts of evidence suggesting it would accelerate America’s growing budget deficits. The Joint Committee on Taxation and the Tax Policy Center predicted that the new law would add at least $1 trillion to deficits over the next 10 years, even after accounting for additional economic growth. The Penn Wharton Budget Model predicted it would add $2 trillion. The most optimistic mainstream model that analyzed all the provisions of the new law, from the Tax Foundation, predicted it would add about $450 billion to the deficit after accounting for additional growth.

Republicans dismissed those warnings. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said he expected the new law to more than pay for itself — it would help to reduce future deficits. It’s possible that optimism could turn out to be right, but only if the tax cuts unleash a sustained boom in productivity and economic growth, and with them, much higher revenues than we saw this past fiscal year.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/no-trumps-tax-cut-isnt-paying-for-itself-at-least-not-yet/ar-BBOv9gi
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 17, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
“Rogue killers”.

These are the kind of people the POTUS does business with,you know , good people.

Gary , I hope you are wrong, I believe the Right does not care about recessions ,they know they will be alright,maybe profit from it.

They will be bailed out,the working man ,not so much.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Oct 17, 2018 - 04:32pm PT
Heil Trump and the Proud boyz...it's about to get ugly out there. I cringe every time I see a dude with a Nazi Wehrmacht haircut, tightly manicured beard and a couple of sleeves of arm tats. Sorry in advance if you are unwittingly sporting this look.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 17, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
Nope. Now he has to listen to tapes of the murder.

I wonder if he'll call it locker room talk.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 17, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
Beheading =locker room talk.

Role model ,he is.

Just how many business cohorts is he beholden to ,that we have still to learn from his tax record,really.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 17, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
Just speculating about trump's lack of contact with reality but my informal survey results indicate that woman prefer having the "pussy" caressed, not grabbed
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 17, 2018 - 08:33pm PT
The "grabbing" comment doesn't even make sense as it's anatomically something that wouldnt lend itself to be "grabbed". Reminds me of the 40 year old virgin movie where the virgin trying to impress the guys said that breasts felt like bags of sand....
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 17, 2018 - 08:39pm PT
perhaps worse than listening to khashoggi ('s dismemberment), m'fug has to listen to kanye "rescind the 13th amendment" head-in-ass dragon energy brother.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 17, 2018 - 09:17pm PT
When I was a kid, we were told to fear the Russians. Now trump says we should be friends. We have fought a war against an organization, al qaeda, headed by a saudi. now trump says saudis aren't that bad.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 18, 2018 - 09:02am PT
john hansen

climber
Oct 18, 2018 - 10:07am PT
^^^^^LOL!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 19, 2018 - 09:25am PT
Mueller report PSA: Prepare for disappointment
And be forewarned that the special counsel’s findings may never be made public.

By DARREN SAMUELSOHN 10/19/2018 05:20 AM EDT
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/19/mueller-investigation-findings-914754

President Donald Trump's critics have spent the past 17 months anticipating what some expect will be among the most thrilling events of their lives: special counsel Robert Mueller’s final report on Russian 2016 election interference.

They may be in for a disappointment.

That’s the word POLITICO got from defense lawyers working on the Russia probe and more than 15 former government officials with investigation experience spanning Watergate to the 2016 election case. The public, they say, shouldn’t expect a comprehensive and presidency-wrecking account of Kremlin meddling and alleged obstruction of justice by Trump — not to mention an explanation of the myriad subplots that have bedeviled lawmakers, journalists and amateur Mueller sleuths.

Perhaps most unsatisfying: Mueller’s findings may never even see the light of day.

“That’s just the way this works,” said John Q. Barrett, a former associate counsel who worked under independent counsel Lawrence Walsh during the Reagan-era investigation into secret U.S. arms sales to Iran. “Mueller is a criminal investigator. He’s not government oversight, and he’s not a historian.”

All of this may sound like a buzzkill after two years of intense news coverage depicting a potential conspiracy between the Kremlin and Trump’s campaign, plus the scores of tweets from the White House condemning the Mueller probe as a “witch hunt.”

But government investigation experts are waving a giant yellow caution flag now to warn that Mueller’s no-comment mantra is unlikely to give way to a tell-all final report and an accompanying blitz of media interviews and public testimony on Capitol Hill.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 19, 2018 - 09:26am PT
Well, if a good portion of the electorate was hoping for some kind of fatal blow from the Justice Department to take this guy out, looks like it's going to be up to the same people that put him in the office in the first place....us.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 11:46am PT
cosmic, I don’t think he would be invited to a maga mob, where yesterday the racist you voted for celebrated the beating of a journalist while your fellow deplorables cheered.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2018 - 12:38pm PT
Gneiss photoshop work Cosmic.




apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 19, 2018 - 12:55pm PT
"OM FUKING GOD. What the fuk?"


Yeah, it's been the wet dream of the Left that Mueller was going to find the dirtiest dirt possible on Trump, and shovel it right up his arse. For all of the unrealistic expectations of the Left, and all of the Right's whining about the scope of Mueller's investigation, the realities of the investigation process, and Mueller's actual integrity, may be coming home to roost very soon.

The Left will cry 'Foul! Sham investigation!', and the Right will make lots of smug 'I told you so' statements about how the whole thing was a waste of time & $$ (nevermind the fact that they would have done exactly the same thing if the political power was flipped...only more aggressively).

There isn't any silver bullet that's going to take Trump out (figuratively, that is), much as the Left would like to find one. He's going to fall out of favor only at such a point the middle ground of the electorate is finally sick of his sh!t enough to vote him out of office. I don't think we're there yet.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 19, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
No doubt, the Russians' meddling helped Trump win the presidency. And even though Trump's detractors have been screaming "Collusion! Collusion!" from day one, there was little evidence to support that claim. Maybe Mueller will produce a smoking gun. That's unlikely.

Setting aside your opinion of Trump, let's look at what's occurred as a result of Trump becoming President. Animosity between the left and right is the worst I ever seen. Many on the left view Trump supporters as lowlife scum. Just plain evil. We're talking about fellow Americans. Yet, to the left, they should be hated.

I don't think the Russians aided Trump because the liked him or could use him as a puppet. They aided him because they knew what would happen to domestic disharmony as a result of Trump being in the White House.

The result is probably much better than they expected.

We have met the enemy....
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 19, 2018 - 01:59pm PT
AntiChrist

Gym climber
Urth

Oct 19, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
Many on the left view Trump supporters as lowlife scum. Just plain evil. We're talking about fellow Americans. Yet, to the left, they should be hated.

Don't forget uneducated pussy grabbing mouth breathers who like to get drunk and "put the moves on the girls."

My point was about every day Americans. The mindset I'm talking about is regularly demonstrated on this forum. You, tut and a number of others are textbook examples. You rely on bad stereotypes to justify your hatred of 100 million Americans. And you don't see the flaws in your thinking. Not much different from the KKK.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 19, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
I have a mother, A Daughter, A Sister & a Wife.

I have a sad history at the hands of spoiled rich kids who were allowed by bad rich parents to do whatever they liked.

I win as long as the bad, evil, pro-hate nazee, stay in power, I win if they close the border. I win if they allow more tax cuts to those sitting on a pile of cash off-shore. I win when the School boards have to beg to teach brown children anything
I would win if my vote counted, but that turtle-faced Mitch could sit, straight faced and say that social entitlements were the cause of the surging debt, tells me the fix is in the game/vote rigged already, so those that are in power will stay in power, no matter what the elections bring.



HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 19, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
Don't forget uneducated pussy grabbing mouth breathers who like to get drunk and "put the moves on the girls."

divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 19, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
everyday, when I think he has hit an all time low, tomorrow he will prove me wrong..
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 19, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
Is Hermitmaster seriously trying to equate the morality of Bill Clinton to Donald Trump's?

ever heard of False Equivalence?

Or is he so embarrassed of his vote for the Grabber that he longs for Bill Clinton?

Grow up, defend your own vote, deflecting attention to 20 years ago just does not work.



EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 19, 2018 - 03:48pm PT
Is Hermitmaster seriously trying to equate the morality of Bill Clinton to Donald Trump's?

ever heard of False Equivalence?

Good point.

Where are Juanita Broaddricks and Kathleen Willeys in Trump's closet?

Speaking of past Presidents, whatever happened to the story about Barry getting busted, smoking crack with his man-crush?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 19, 2018 - 07:37pm PT
“I don't think the Russians aided Trump because the liked him or could use him as a puppet. They aided him because they knew what would happen to domestic disharmony as a result of Trump being in the White House”

On this, we can completely agree. Trump probably danced too much with Putin during his campaign, but I doubt he crossed the line enough to be caught. Putin is waaaay more experienced at US politics than Trump is, which means he played him like a fiddle...to sow discord in American society was his primary goal.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Oct 19, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
One of the conservative team's big problems is their inability to stand up to trumpeters.

So far the few who do are being kicked off the team, like Jeff Flake, who is quite conservative.

In the meantime, trumpy continues his raging lies, scams, ineptitude, and threats. Every day there's more. He is 10 times worse than these silly comparisons to Obama or Clinton.

Today he gave great thanks to the assault on a journalist by a Republican who was convicted. The same week trumpy is extremely hesitant to stand up to the torture and murder of a journalist. Where are the conservative media outlets standing up to this? besides David Brooks.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/during-rally-trump-praises-republican-congressman-who-assaulted-a-journalist
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 19, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
Just speaking very figuratively, ET.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 19, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 19, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
It's hard to believe that Trump , with many of the people connected to him being indicted , will emerge unscathed...
john hansen

climber
Oct 19, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
A few reasons to vote against Trump and the Republican Party.


If you or anyone you know has a pre existing condition.

If you want to get your social security that you paid into and for.

If you are not a World Wrestling Entertainment fan.

If you are tired of being lied to every day.

If you think that the President of the USA should have some dignity.

If you think that the President should receive a Daily Briefing ,and listen.

If you think a President should be able to be humble.

If you believe that the US is a country of immigrants and it has made us much stronger,

If you have a mother , or sister , a wife or a daughter.

If you think insulting and attacking people who do not agree with you is wrong.

If you believe in climate change. And that desert's are growing and goats and sheep are causing it .

If you believe we should not allow coal waste to be dumped in our streams.


Some times I think we are too late with this climate change thing and humans do not have the will to do what is needed to reverse it and there will be severe environmental consequence's


But we all enjoy the benefit's of oil.

Is everyone going to stop flying , or driving gas powered cars?

I just don't think the human race can stop exploiting every resource to it's full potential. Whale's and slaves and strip mining and , soy beans in the Amazon.

Some day the Amazon will look like Nebraska,,

I will be 80 in 2040 , if I live that long.

It will be interesting to see what happen's in the world between now and then.







WBraun

climber
Oct 20, 2018 - 08:37am PT
Here is something for YOU politards to think about.

The caption to the below photo said:

Joy Gerhard, of Seattle, cries in the Hart Senate Office Building atrium as she listens on her phone to
Dr. Christine Blasey Ford testify on the sexual assault by Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh,


The phone looks bent, and if it is then how would it still be working?

Is this an example of "Bent News" :-)......... ???
Jorroh

climber
Oct 20, 2018 - 08:50am PT
Have a closer look Werner
WBraun

climber
Oct 20, 2018 - 08:53am PT
Yeah, it's NOT bent.

Only the guy who posted this is Bent !!!!

:-)

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 20, 2018 - 08:59am PT
I think she was more distraught about her haircut than the warped phone...?
dirtbag

climber
Oct 20, 2018 - 09:59am PT
Maybe she was taking a photo of the moon landing that didn’t happen?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 20, 2018 - 11:08am PT
Gee, with the Proud Boyz of the Right around, who needs Brown Shirts?

I'm sure our president considers them to be 'fine people', and that a good body slam is in the interest of democracy.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 20, 2018 - 11:13am PT
Is there ANY evidence of Trump interacting with Putin (or his agents) during the campaign?

Trump has not only denied that his campaign worked with the Russians, he has repeatedly denied that Russia interfered in the election at all.

It was clear that the Trump administration was never going to seriously investigate Russian meddling, even if that meddling had nothing to do with Trump's campaign.

The Mueller investigation has been important in establishing that the Russians did and how they did it.

I think members of Trumps family attempted to work with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary. Their emails shows that.

But I think what should be the biggest smoking gun is financial conflicts. Trump is putting his personal finances ahead of the interest of the country. He is completely unashamed about that.

Whether the Dems get enough turn out to win the House is going to be huge for 2020. If they win, then they could serious, congressional investigations of Trump and many other corrupt individuals in his administrations. If they don't, it will most likely be more of the same.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 20, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
If they don't win something we could be really screwed.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 20, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
Antifa has been harassing peaceful groups for the last two years. They've basically gone unchallenged. The Proud Boys are a logical response to antifa. It's tougher to be bully when the other side fights back.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 20, 2018 - 01:13pm PT

Oct 20, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
Antifa has been harassing peaceful groups for the last two years. They've basically gone unchallenged. The Proud Boys are a logical response to antifa. It's tougher to be bully when the other side fights back.

Do you know what The acronym means? It means they are against fascists. Why would you have a problem with that? Unless you know. . . . . . .no, not Skip
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 20, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
The latest from 538:

Senate:

House:

If you still have faith in 538, odds of Dems taking the House look good. The bigger question is...what kind of majority?
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 20, 2018 - 03:00pm PT
If you still have faith in 538, odds of Dems taking the House look good. The bigger question is...what kind of majority?

I think if the dems can put the "fear of dog" in trump. That's a good thing.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 20, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
Yeah, well, I'm sure Nate Silver has learned a few lessons since 2016...I'm personally a little more confident of his forecasts.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 20, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
xCon

Social climber
909

Oct 20, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
try this folks
google "Antifa violence" and click on images

if there was ANYTHING to Edwards theory this page would be nothing but the pictures of it. and it aint…

wonder where they could be hiding them???

Your ignorance is laughable.

https://capitalresearch.org/article/antifa-activist-faces-jail-time-for-nazi-punching/
Antifa Activist Faces Jail Time for “Nazi Punching”

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-berkeley-antifa-radicals-20170829-story.html
Radical 'antifa' protesters do their cause no favors by commiting violence

https://www.dailywire.com/news/37068/our-attack-merely-beginning-antifa-vandalizes-nyc-hank-berrien

'OUR ATTACK IS MERELY THE BEGINNING': Antifa Vandalizes NYC GOP Headquarters, Warns Of More Violence

http://alexansary.tv/antifa-attacks-trump-supporters-in-portland/

ANTIFA Attacks Trump Supporters in Portland


there was NO Antifa before proud boys

More ignorance. Referenced Wikipedia. You must've missed:

Bray, Mark (2017). "Introduction". Antifa: The Antifascist Handbook. Melville House. ISBN 978-1-61219-703-6. In the United States, most [antifa groups] have been anarchist or antiauthoritarian since the emergence of modern antifa under the name Anti-Racist Action (ARA) in the late eighties.

Antifa has been regularly causing chaos and violence at peaceful events for the last two years. They are true brownshirt thugs.

From what I've read... and I could be wrong... antifa initiates nearly all of the conflicts they're involved in. The proud boys typically protect peaceful conservative causes. They come ready to fight, but they don't seek it out. That's antifa's MO.

In NYC recently, antifa showed up to a function attended by proud boys. They sought out the proud boys. According to reports, antifa started the fighting.

In Portland recently, antifa had been harassing/threatening people for days. Last Saturday, the two gropus faced off. According to eyewitness reports, an antifa member let loose a string of pepper spray.

Antifa = anonymous thugs.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 20, 2018 - 06:06pm PT

There is always hope for the masses

Mega Millions jackpot climbs to $1.6 billion after no one wins latest drawing​"
dirtbag

climber
Oct 20, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
Both are trouble, both spoil for fights--I wish they’d both fall into a big hole.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 20, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
and I could be wrong

Why Change now?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 20, 2018 - 06:34pm PT
As if the forensic argument makes any difference. That kind of violence is unacceptable from any group. If Trump could get votes out of the Proud Boys, I’m sure he’d give them at least an implicit thumbs up.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 20, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Oct 20, 2018 - 06:34pm PT
As if the forensic argument makes any difference. That kind of violence is unacceptable from any group.

You're right. In this case, it's a response from harassment and violence that was largely unchallenged.

Ever since Trump won, the left has been raging against him. The day after his inauguration, one million people marched against him in DC. Nationwide, it was close to four million. It's been fairly constant ever since. Now, we have Democrats in Congress encouraging people to seek out and harass conservative. Steve Scalise got shot. But I guess that was a lone wolf event, kind of like the Heather Heyer killing.

But then there's the Rand Paul assault. How many Republicans have been chased out of restaurants? How many Senators who voted for Kavanaugh have received death threats? Ricin in the mail? Hillary, Waters, Booker... they're encouraging this crap.

Nancy Pelosi was recently harassed at a restaurant. I'm not okay with it. But it was only a matter of time before right-wingers adopted left-wing practices.

What's really scary is the reports of activist protesters are being paid by Soros et al. Heard similar stories about funding for Central American refugees.

How much are the uber-rich "liberals" contribution to domestic chaos?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
Edward T! Re your post about your fears! You are being a good Trump-puppet! Trump & the Republicans need you to be very afraid about so many, many, threats to America.

It looks like you are on board with the "fear-mongers."

Ever since Trump won, the left has been raging against him. The day after his inauguration, one million people marched against him in DC. Nationwide, it was close to four million. It's been fairly constant ever since. Now, we have Democrats in Congress encouraging people to seek out and harass conservative. Steve Scalise got shot. But I guess that was a lone wolf event, kind of like the Heather Heyer killing.

But then there's the Rand Paul assault. How many Republicans have been chased out of restaurants? How many Senators who voted for Kavanaugh have received death threats? Ricin in the mail? Hillary, Waters, Booker... they're encouraging this crap.

Nancy Pelosi was recently harassed at a restaurant. I'm not okay with it. But it was only a matter of time before right-wingers adopted left-wing practices.

What's really scary is the reports of activist protesters are being paid by Soros et al. Heard similar stories about funding for Central American refugees.

How much are the uber-rich "liberals" contribution to domestic chaos?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 20, 2018 - 08:57pm PT
Edward, that's a whole lot of focus on those on the Left who are supposedly 'encouraging' violence. That guy in the WH has, at the very least, implicitly encouraged right-wing extremist groups throughout his campaign, and into his presidency...all for the transparently obvious motivation to gain votes.

Detente requires two sides. And usually, if it's a genuine interest, the one that's in power goes first.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Oct 21, 2018 - 04:07am PT
The Chump Train

There’s is no rock under which to hide
when truth’s revealed
and your fate is sealed
and all the lies come home to roost
for the believers and the perpetrators
history holds a special place
when hells released
and furies are no longer heeled

What business is it
I don’t care
as I listen to coyotes dance
the midnight air holds wonder
like the promise of a brand new day
that may not come here soon on earth

One day soon
You’ll wish you cared
to have more understanding
beyond your wounded pride
But there will be no rock
under which to hide
no place of glory to make your boasts
no shelter for to hide

What business is it
I don’t care
as I listen to coyotes dance
the midnight air holds wonder
like the promise of a brand new day
that may not come here soon on earth

So revel in your hollow pride
There will be no rock for which to hide
in your shallow empty glory
no rock for which to hide
when we’ve all gone off the deep end
at the end of your ride
there will be no place to hide
no shelter from the rising tide

-bushman
10/21/2018
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 21, 2018 - 06:38am PT

LOL

More humor:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 21, 2018 - 08:07am PT
Damn you are gullible, Sketch.

all racists are
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 21, 2018 - 08:53am PT
Edward, I've got a $50 bet going with moose that the Dems will take the House- if they take it with a 2/3 majority (impeaching ability), then it goes to $100. In either case, my winnings will go to benefit Bernadette Regan.

Want some of that bet?
Aeriq

Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
Oct 21, 2018 - 09:28am PT
^^http://proudboysusa.com/

Excerpt from Proud Boys Meeting notes:

"Well, boys - we finally got Jed Finch's girl to give us an endorsement! It ain't much, but it's all we got.

Oh, and Twitter suspended the Proud Boys' Girls account, so we should probably remove that link..."


“Proud Boys saved my marriage,” says PBG Gabriela Finch. “I was completely done with it, but he won me back and fought hard for it.”

dirtbag

climber
Oct 21, 2018 - 09:31am PT
What’s at stake in two weeks:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/10/21/an-election-that-goes-way-beyond-policy-issues/?utm_term=.7cf63bd99ca1
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2018 - 10:08am PT
These latest PEW Research polls on Trump's lack of popularity among Europeans & conversely, how popular Obama was, are sure to raise the ire of our xenophobic Trumpists!

(Of course, first they will have to look up xenophobic;)


Bush II, Obama, & Trump popularity in Europe.

August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Oct 21, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
Apogee

It only takes a simple majority for the House to impeach.

It takes 2/3 for the Senate to convict.
EdBannister

Mountain climber
13,000 feet
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
Yeah, you guys are right, a drunk on the Supreme Court, err,

but then there are those nasty conflicting facts again!!

first in his class in High School
first in his undergrad class at Yale
first in his class in Law School at Yale

nobody that does this, is a drunk.


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
Right you are, August.

Well, I’ll still stand by my bet with Moose, and Edward, too, if he wants in.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
So the Euros don’t have faith in us. Boo-Freaking-Hoo!
How long before we have to go bail their sorry asses out, again?
John M

climber
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
nobody that does this, is a drunk.

I Never believed he was a drunk pre se. But he styled himself a choirboy who could not have done what was done to Ford because he didn't drink to excess and was not a belligerent drunk. Drunk being someone who has had sufficient alcohol to be drunk, and not necessarily an alcoholic. Yet there is plenty of testimony that on weekends in College he would drink to excess and was a belligerent drunk. The story of him starting a fight in the bar is a good example of that.

so the defense that he wasn't an alcoholic because he did so well in school is NOT the point. And his notion that one couldn't do well in school and drink to excess on the weekend was also denied by a number of people who knew him. They said that most everyone at Yale drank to excess on the weekend, and yet did well in school. There is no denying he is a high achiever. But his defense of himself that he could not have done this act to Ford because he wasn't that kind of a drinker is nonsense. His argument reminds me of the saying that a lawyer who has himself as a client has a fool for a client. But this was a rigged situation, so his testimony was simply meant to convince those who already believed that he is innocent.

His defense of himself was full of bluff, bluster and belligerence and was full of holes which a competent lawyer with the proper evidence done by a proper investigation could have taken apart. Not exactly the temperament that I would want to see in a supreme court Justice.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:23pm PT
I know plenty of people who were firsts in whatever and are drunk from tasting power... The bottom line is cavanaugh has brought partisan politics to a once respected branch of the government..
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:34pm PT
Edward...speaking for myself , no...but if an ivestigation discovered that cavanaugh did assault christine blasey ford and the dems were in a majority then yes...what do you think...?
John M

climber
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
no.. Democrats won't try to impeach him. That was bluster to try to get the republicans to change their minds about him. They might campaign on that to get votes, but will then do nothing but bluster.

As for Antifa.. your notion that they were the cause of the proud boy group is ridiculous because it ignores how Trump and the conservatives ran his campaign. Perhaps you have forgotten or chose to ignore the violence that trump incited while having people kicked out, sometimes brutally at some of his campaign events.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-incitement-violence/

Edit: can't figure out why I can't post an photo. I keep getting an error message.


you helped elect him, therefore by your logic you are partly to blame for the rise of antifa. violence begets violence.


I in no way support antifa's violent methods, but I do agree that we need to protest many things that are happening today.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
In regards to people lying when they were polled about how they would vote in 2016,
I guess they were ashamed to admit they were going to vote for the racist sexist fraud lying scammer ignorant tax cheating narcissist quack.

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:50pm PT
How much of a majority in the Senate is required to remove a SC Justice, Edward? google it

You are assuming your own republicans would vote to impeach Kavenaugh.......
(no one is predicting the Repubs will lose the Senate in 18 days)

tell us what you like about "Kav", Edward, tell us which judicial decisions of his you like
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 21, 2018 - 01:54pm PT
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Oct 21, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
Kavanaugh again?

Umm, he is the topic of this thread. You must be getting tired of defending him..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 21, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
Edward, please stop posting those sidewall-blowing images. It's annoying to read the preceding or following posts.


So you want to get into the bet on the House, or what?
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 21, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 21, 2018 - 03:44pm PT
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 21, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
^^^LOL!!^^^
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 21, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
Probably missed this one too just stayed at home I suppose

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d65nnXV7npM.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 21, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
you helped elect him, therefore by your logic you are partly to blame for the rise of antifa. violence begets violence.

Ridiculous. By your logic, John M, those who voted for Lincoln are responsible for the Civil War.

ANTIFA is to blame for ANTIFA.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Oct 21, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 21, 2018 - 08:36pm PT
Lituya is really afraid of the gutterpunks lol


[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 21, 2018 - 08:42pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 22, 2018 - 06:25am PT
Paul Krugman of the New York Times the day after the election.

It really does now look like President Donald J. Trump, and markets are plunging. When might we expect them to recover? A first-pass answer is never… So we are very probably looking at a global recession, with no end in sight.


----------------



Good morning, y'all
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Oct 22, 2018 - 09:47am PT
I am just curious as to why sketch is so insecure?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Oct 22, 2018 - 09:51am PT
I am just curious as to why sketch is so insecure?

because he is an ignorant racist
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 22, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
If everybody didn't know why not to, you'd almost want to punch the guy.

Not out of spite or anger Mind you, just to try to knock some sense into his thick head.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 22, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
Yay Antifa.

Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO.

Previously unreported documents disclose that by April 2016, authorities believed that “anarchist extremists” were the primary instigators of violence at public rallies against a range of targets. They were blamed by authorities for attacks on the police, government and political institutions, along with symbols of “the capitalist system,” racism, social injustice and fascism, according to a confidential 2016 joint intelligence assessment by DHS and the FBI.

In interviews, law enforcement authorities made clear that Trump’s inflammatory rhetoric and policies — first as a candidate and then as president — helped to create a situation that has escalated so quickly and extensively that they do not have a handle on it.

“It was in that period [as the Trump campaign emerged] that we really became aware of them,” said one senior law enforcement official tracking domestic extremists in a state that has become a front line in clashes between the groups. “These antifa guys were showing up with weapons, shields and bike helmets and just beating the sh#t out of people. … They’re using Molotov cocktails, they’re starting fires, they’re throwing bombs and smashing windows.

Even before Charlottesville, dozens and, in some cases, hundreds of people on both sides showed up at events in Texas, California, Oregon and elsewhere, carrying weapons and looking for a fight. In the Texas capital of Austin, armed antifa protesters attacked Trump supporters and white groups at several recent rallies, and then swarmed police in a successful effort to stop them from making arrests.

California has become another battleground, with violent confrontations in Berkeley, Sacramento and Orange County leading to numerous injuries. And antifa counter-protesters initiated attacks in two previous clashes in Charlottesville, according to the law enforcement reports and interviews.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 22, 2018 - 05:04pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Oct 22, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
They are coming to get you Sketch ,but,they want to preserve your Social Security.


Lol.








Boo!
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 22, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
no but seriously, EdwardTroll is frightened by members of the aughts band Rancid. LMFAO
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
More BS about more tax-cuts by our lying president. I'm sure his base loves him for it, even as America sinks in the Republican sea of budgetary red ink. Right Cosmic?

Trump's mystery tax cut puzzles Washington

Call it the mystery middle class tax cut.

In recent days President Donald Trump has twice promised a new “major tax cut” ahead of the November midterm elections, mystifying White House officials, congressional leaders, and tax wonks around town who mostly have no idea what he’s talking about.

The pledge — which Trump repeated Monday afternoon — came as news to House and Senate lawmakers, who’ve already returned to their home states to campaign for the elections and have no plans to consider new legislation before then.

White House officials spent the day trying to decode what Trump meant because no one knew the substance of any such tax cut, or had seen any policy proposal related to it. Aides were left wondering what Trump had read in newspaper clippings, or seen on Twitter, to inspire this grand promise from his rally podium.

One senior administration official on Sunday night had not even heard about the president’s tax cut remark on Saturday in Nevada and said they had no idea what he was talking about. “I guess I’ll hear about it when I get to work on Monday,” the official said.

Trump said that House Speaker Paul Ryan was involved in crafting the plan. But Ryan’s office shed no light, referring questions back to the White House.

Trump first floated the idea on Saturday, saying that his administration is “studying very deeply right now round the clock a major tax cut for middle income people.” He upped the ante before leaving for a campaign trip to Texas on Monday, telling reporters at the White House that the administration plans to produce a “resolution” calling for a 10 percent tax cut for middle income earners. It was not clear what he meant by resolution. There are no current plans in Congress for any kind of large new tax cut for the middle class.

The GOP is already scrambling to avoid criticism for the ballooning debt and deficit under Trump’s watch. The president’s own Treasury Department reported last week that the deficit hit $779 billion in the 2018 fiscal year, the highest level since 2012, following the GOP tax cut bill and a massive spending increase in Congress. Jason Furman, who served as chair of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Barack Obama suggested a 10 percent middle class tax cut would cost roughly $2 trillion over ten years.

"This is the height of cynicism," Greg Valliere, chief global strategist for Horizon Investments, said of Trump’s tax cut talk. "Number one, I think even Republicans would be gun shy about adding this much more to the deficit. And the public actually seems pretty indifferent to tax cuts. This doesn't pass the smell test or the laugh test."

Regardless of the origin of the president’s comments, they nonetheless set off a scramble in official Washington to de-code his exact meaning.

One senior administration official stressed that the president was left hungry for more even after his White House pushed tax reform legislation through Congress for the first time since 1986. “He’s wanted to do more,” the official added. “But on those specifics, you may have to wait a bit because they have to go through Congress.”

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady already unveiled a tax reform 2.0 bill earlier this fall, which now must wait for consideration from the Senate. Brady’s bill contains many of the tweaks and fixes to the individual side of the tax code, so much so that one Republican congressional staffer said: “What else can we really do?” when asked for reaction to Trump’s comments.

Tax wonks, too, were left to speculate about the policy machinations. Some suspect Trump was referring to a proposal from the Treasury Department to index capital gains to inflation, a move the department could do unilaterally.

“We think Mr. Trump could have been hinting that the administration may propose indexing capital gains for inflation,” Brian Gardner, an analyst at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods wrote in a note to clients on Monday. “While indexing capital gains for inflation might not meet many people's definition of a ‘middle class tax cut,’ it is an idea that National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow supports and has pushed for many years and which the administration floated during the summer.

Or Trump could have been referring to a proposal out of his Department of Labor that would expand access to 401(k)’s for people who work for small businesses, said Stephen Moore, an informal economic adviser to the Trump campaign and distinguished visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation who, despite his own deep relationships in the White House, was also left wondering about Trump’s ‘major tax cut’ rhetoric.

The specifics may not matter, though, in the days before an election — especially as the media echoes his message, often uncritically.

“Trump says ‘major tax cut’ on the way for the middle class” read one headline on Fox News business on Oct. 22. “Trump: Working on tax cut for middle class,” an MSNBC chyron declared during his remarks Monday. Making headlines like those may have been Trump’s clearest plan all along.
And for Republicans making the final sprint to the midterms, Trump talking about tax cuts – even fanciful ones with no chance of happening – is better than Trump talking about much of anything else.

“It’s not a serious proposal. It wasn’t kicked around a whole lot, he just tossed it out there,” said one conservative lobbyist with close ties to GOP leaders on the Hill. “Nobody is taking it seriously, but we’d rather have him talking about tax cuts than some of the crazy stuff he usually talks about.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-mystery-tax-cut-puzzles-washington/ar-BBOKf7B?li=BBnb7Kz
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Oct 22, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 22, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
More Libtard Mob-like Behavior

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Oct 22, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
Trump's mystery tax cut puzzles Washington

It is possible Trump is a liar.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Oct 22, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
So weird that the emergence of a fascist regime would result in anti-fascist movements. Can't those anti-fascists just sit tight and wait their turn?
Except the "anti-fascists" are, in fact, fascist.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Psilocyborg

climber
Oct 22, 2018 - 06:45pm PT
Caught my girlfriend pooping so I broke up with her. She said shes off to pee while were watching a movie, now shes been gone 5 minutes and i knew something was up, i knocked on the door and asked if everything is ok, she said yes she'll be right out...her voice was labored and i became suspicious...so i yelled "IM COMING IN!' she screamed no but there was no stopping this, i smashed through the door and i see her sitting on the toilet seat, i told her to get the fuk up, she didnt so i threw her off, i looked inside the toilet...just as i suspected, a goddam log, u better pray this isnt yours. i looked around and saw no pet in site, I KNOW THIS IS UR POOP U WHORE, she screamed at me that im crazy and that shes calling the cops, all the while toilet paper in her hands. i told her no need to call the cops, im breaking up with u u some kinda poop whore. and that was that. I feel like a new man and off to find a woman who doesnt poop.