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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Sep 17, 2018 - 05:43pm PT
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Awesome!! That's the way to do it.
Beyond my pay grade, but the beauty of style is that we all can practice it at our given level.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
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Pete, you took 5 days to finish a bottle of whiskey?
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Zoid
Trad climber
Turkey Rock, CO
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
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That whiskey was soooo bad, it took seven of us a full three months to finish it.
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McGinnis
climber
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
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One on one mentoring is probably the best way to preserve traditional ethics.
It’s not hard to find new climbers who are anxious to learn from someone with experience and most of them want to do things in good style.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 07:33am PT
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Along the same lines, all trails and especially trail signs in the back country should be obliterated.
Just obliterate your st00pid self and you won't see any of that anymore .....
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 08:21am PT
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Devilboy- with all respect, I think the op, was referring to making a perfectly reasonable belay more comfortable.
Maybe an aside, but possibly, we teach our kids to clean their room and to pick up after themselves, while leaving them a world that is warmer, species poor, and resource depleted.
In the scheme of things, a couple bolts on one pitch isn't much. They may even make a trafficked belay safer, or less crowded and contentious. What's lost.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 18, 2018 - 09:06am PT
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We put up a bunch of trad routes in SW Utah with 0 bolts.
We wrote them up in the AAJ.
Then the local idiots retrobolted them and claimed them as FAs.
Phucking idiots thought it wasn't a route if it didn't have bolts.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sep 18, 2018 - 09:26am PT
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What's the difference between God and donini?
Two that come to mind:
God don't troll.
God knows He is no donini.
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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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Sep 18, 2018 - 09:48am PT
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As someone who bolted routes in a pristine setting only to watch it become a total sh#t show within five years I got to say the locals may have had a point.
“It just got to be too much, and it was just too much [of] a nuisance, because people were coming in and cutting trees, trespassing on property, parking in [residents’] driveways and blocking the roads,” MacKenzie said. “The more it gets to be known, the more popular it becomes and the more people show up, and it becomes something that is impossible to control.”....
“The way I see this is that there’s been some growing pains,” he said. “With the bolts, there were more people going up there than had been. It went from being a few parties per year to a few parties per week.”
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“[Without the bolts] there won’t be a whole lot of people out there, trying to climb. It takes a different level of expertise [without the bolts],” she said.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Sep 18, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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Some of the dimensions of bolting in service of barely qualified participants are illustrated in this shot from the Stately Pleasure Dome kerfluffle over on MP.
The argument is that the barely qualified (together with the lazy and incurious) are a fact of life and are going to rap off trees and so kill them. The evidence is the bark-polishing caused by slings:
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 10:34am PT
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Just for clarification. I unequivocally support the OP in principle. It's a messy world.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Sep 18, 2018 - 10:41am PT
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Straight from the banned Warbler's mouth........
Person deleted from this site quoting himself.. lol
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 10:52am PT
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There are plenty of old (chopped) bolt holes from back-in-the-day bolting on classic multipitch trad routes...you can find the old holes if you keep your eyes open (I've patched old belay bolt holes on Nutcracker and Munginella and other Valley classics). Actually I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a single really popular multipitch trad route which you walk off that doesn't have at least one old chopped belay bolt hole (or hangerless bolt stud like the 1/4" one on the right wall at the belay above the crux pitch of Hobbit Book). Just saw a chopped bolt hole yesterday on a multipitch 5.5 trad route in the South Platte (easy walk-off), looked like it was probably from a drop-in added in the '60s or '70s.
Anyway, it's not like bolted belays on easily protected trad routes are a new phenomenon. Climbers have been adding belay bolts for a very long time.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 11:40am PT
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Great points and well put Donini.
I always thought the downside of gyms is youngsters getting strong without the store of knowledge and building anchors that keeps ya alive (but gyms are still great training grounds).
I on rare occasions pee on them. Another downside of gyms ;-)
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Sep 18, 2018 - 12:11pm PT
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Don't add bolts to routes without the FA's permission and if they have passed on, well you had your chance.
Yep.....until after the conjunction. Should I pass on, leaving FA's in my wake......have at it. Keep 'em safe. Bolts don't last forever, ya know. Even if someone were to add to my routes after I'm long gone, there's nothimg I can do. Food.
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spectreman
Trad climber
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Sep 19, 2018 - 06:38am PT
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There are plenty of places where you have to build gear anchors.
Bolted anchors are great and don't seem to be a problem to me. There should be more. Like "Delicate Sound of Thunder" at Red Rocks. It's a mostly bolted route but there's no anchor at the top of P1. You can get good gear for a belay but it's fiddly and takes time and it's kind of weird. A bolted anchor makes sense and wouldn't change the character of the climbing and would be "convenient".
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A Essex
climber
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Sep 19, 2018 - 06:54am PT
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^^^^
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2018 - 07:03am PT
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The slope is indeed slippery...to each his own. For me, off to the Black Canyon tomorrow where bolted belays are as rare as hen’s teeth. Somehow, climbers there survive without them but I suppose the lack of Red Rocks/Yosemite comfortization is one reason you don’t have to wait in line there.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Sep 19, 2018 - 07:15am PT
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Adventure is never crowded
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 19, 2018 - 07:22am PT
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Black Canyon tomorrow where bolted belays are as rare as hen’s teeth.
This is an outrage!!!
Donini must become brainwashed to become more sterile to comfortized bolted anchors at every belay.
He's a rebel with no comfortized cause in a comfortized unintelligent modern sterile world.
He MUST be dealt with quickly to become like the herd or else there will be intelligence again ....... :-)
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