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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:01am PT
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@Ksolem:
Yeah, Pine Creek ain't Fitzroy, but Jim was just talking about multi-pitch trad. There's a fair amount of it in Pine Creek. Wasn't there some lame ass attempt at a bolted anchor on Bear's Reach at the Leap a while ago? Guess that got chopped but quick. May that never be necessary again.
BAd
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DanaB
climber
CO
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:10am PT
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Jim, consider this. The last time I went to Farley, there was a small group at one of the popular areas, one that has easy and moderate grade routes. They were complaining - what kind of place is this, why aren't there fixed quickdraws on the bolts, this is stupid, etc. They wern't kidding.
t
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:13am PT
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Give a climber a bolt, you protect the move, give a climber nutcraft and you protect the world.
Love that!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:37am PT
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You were taught?
Oh man, that would have saved a lot grief!
Love it. I have been exposed. (That may be open to interpretation.)
And I agree Mark.
Give a climber a bolt, you protect the move, give a climber nutcraft and you protect the world.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:51am PT
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Steve, that is a beautiful photo, I have always wanted to climb in the Wind Rivers.
They were complaining - what kind of place is this, why aren't there fixed quickdraws on the bolts, this is stupid, etc. They wern't (sic) kidding.
Wow, are you kidding? Really? I guess I have been out of the loop, some climbers really think that nowadays? Why don't they just go to Disneyland and climb the Matterhorn. Or Six Flags.
I guess I am being a bit facetious, but really? It is weird.
Of course, I am in the high flying fidelity first class section, I think I'll buy myself a Learjet to fly to Chamonix
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A Essex
climber
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:58am PT
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Bolted belays makes tRad climbs glorified Spurt climbs!!!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 07:01am PT
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Steve A., unfortunately the Wind’s are too accessible to be considered “wilderness” any more. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot of rock out there that is still pretty wild.
Won’t be any bolted belays on the rock pictured below anytime soon but, if I have my way, there will be a route there in the near future.
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ECF
Big Wall climber
Ridgway CO
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:18am PT
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Someday, some kid will slack line between the towers.
And you can bet he’s gonna bolt it.
Technology will always evolve faster than morality.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 07:21am PT
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True...but that day will likely be after my days are done.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:24am PT
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That is a beautiful photo Jim. Patagonia?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 07:28am PT
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Biafo region of the Karakoram.
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:53am PT
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Rappelling the walk-off on Stately Pleasure? Never heard of such a thing. The thought never entered our heads. TM Herbert always walked backwards down the steeper part “to relieve the pressure on my knees”.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Sep 17, 2018 - 08:04am PT
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despoiled ??????
Wouldn't the correct word be 'spoiled'?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 08:13am PT
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Despoil...rob, ravage, rape is stronger.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 17, 2018 - 08:49am PT
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Does the shaming of over-bolted stances include comfort dogs and comfort women...?
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Sep 17, 2018 - 09:25am PT
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Please let's not give up and let the sport climbers bolt everything. If no one pushes back, that's what will happen.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 09:40am PT
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SomebodyAnybody...you have no idea what kind of routes I climb. I am lucky enough to be able to go to many places where bolted belays are non existent. I posted this as commentary on a trend that seems to be growing and that I find lamentable.
You may disagree with me which is fine buy I certainly don't need your advice about how to avoid them.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Sep 17, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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Spoiled should be the correct word. :)
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OldEric
Trad climber
Westboro, MA
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Sep 17, 2018 - 10:06am PT
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Posting herer - to your choir of fan boys - is of course going to get you the responses you want to hear. Be a little more daring and post up on MP. Those are more likely the ones that would do the comfortizing and be the ones you need to convince.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 17, 2018 - 10:13am PT
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I can agree with donini about bolting for convenience, but only in areas where there is little traffic on the routes. The Last thing I would have happen is another frenzy of chopping, which in my mind, despoils the rock.
OK, the bolt "offends you." Fine. Don't use it, but DON'T chop it. Don't be a self-aggrandizing sanctimonious asshat, thinking that you are the sole arbiter of ethics.
There are areas where having "convenience bolt anchors" are de rigieuer. I've done a LOT of climbing in the Dolomites, and especially on many of the so-called "trade routes." These are all bolted with massive bolts, and in most instances, there are multiple bolted anchors with huge rings. But this is not a 'wilderness experience," which Jim is projecting. Sadly, most climbers in this new era aren't seeking that class of experience, and are simply making another check in the guidebook for another route at a given grade.
Times have changed, and the old ethics are vanishing.
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