Does Califonia need 3 times as many Senators?

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Messages 41 - 60 of total 82 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
BJ

climber
Jun 14, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
What's the point of this ballot initiative?
Escape the jack booted tyranny of the libtards who soak us with tax bills to pay for lavender and paisley
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jun 14, 2018 - 07:06pm PT
I'm all for repealing the 17th Amendment, and going back to having state legislatures choose the senators.

I've never understood how the States could have ratified the 17th. The single greatest blow to State's rights in our history.
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Jun 14, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
Huh? Have you actually looked at the map of the proposed split?

Have you? California's current U.S. Senators are Democrats Dianne Feinstein and Kamala Harris. The mayors of LA and SF are extreme dems. My guess is that if Cali splits all 6 senators would be dems.

Kevin McCarthy, Devin Nunes, Paul Cook, Dana Rorabacher, Darrell Issa, Duncan Hunter, Ken Calvert, and Mimi Walters - all GOP off the top of my head.

That is a mere handfull of those that hold public office in Cali.
WBraun

climber
Jun 14, 2018 - 08:03pm PT
You st00pid politards can have 200 senators and still can't do anything right.

You're all brainwashed runaway trainwrecks and so are your st00pid politics ....
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Jun 14, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
You st00pid politards can have 200 senators and still can't do anything right.

You're all brainwashed runaway trainwrecks and so are your st00pid politics ....

Werner for quote of the day. I knew I should't have stepped into this steaming pile.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 14, 2018 - 09:24pm PT
John

I looked at a couple of maps that show house seats as solid Democrats or Republicans or leaning D/R. And compared it to the three way split. It looks decidedly Republican.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jun 14, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
All of us rural folks would be screwed without big city tax dollars.

Could we pave roads? Fight wildland fire? Pay for teachers? How about the fish in the lakes and rivers? The highway, down Main Street, who pays? What will our minimum wage be? What happens to our DMV? Who administers our Medi-Cal? Does the money go up or down?

I have a conservative friend who says you rural folks could withhold water from the big cities. dumb, I know.
SomebodyAnybody

Big Wall climber
Torrance
Jun 14, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
"The mayors of LA and SF are extreme dems. My guess is that if Cali splits all 6 senators would be dems."

Your "guess". Well thanks for guessing.

Maybe, just maybe, you should LOOK AT THE MAP of the proposal, which counties/congressional districts are in the "southern california" division/state, and understand that all those Congress members I listed are Republicans from that "southern california" "state". It's specifically designed to be as GOP as possible, would likely have a very narrow GOP edge in POTUS years or tossup at min, and would lean GOP in off-POTUS election years when turnout among younger voters is notably lower.

While you're welcome to "guess", it would be nice if you actually looked at some data and informed yourself, instead of spraying uninformed ignorance.
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Jun 14, 2018 - 10:04pm PT
Withold water? The state owns the water. Which state would then own the water? What would happen to water rights under state law?

Witholding water, would be direct action at this point. I mean protests and possibly armed rebellion. Does your friend mean this or is he talking out of his rear end?

This all seems to me to be a bunch of big talk and no real discussion of the actual problems caused by the split. In this modern world, it could pass. Big talking nonsense polls well these days.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jun 14, 2018 - 10:25pm PT
The "withholding water" scheme isn't a plan. It's an argument to demonstrate the stupidity of the "rural folks would be screwed without big city tax dollars" statement.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jun 14, 2018 - 10:27pm PT
I have a conservative friend who says you rural folks could withhold water from the big cities. dumb, I know.

I know, right? That worked so well in the Owens Valley, lol.

In general you can't sell your water rights and keep them too.

However, a new northern state could make it one hell of a lot harder to build new conveyance projects to get that water to the south lands, I will give him that.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jun 14, 2018 - 10:36pm PT
Withold water? The state owns the water.

Well that entirely depends on which water you're talking about. Water rights are extremely complicated but at the end of the day the water rights holders own the water (represented by their rights to it).

In that respect the state does not own the water and then determine how to dole it out. It's the exact opposite in fact, the state tries mightily to corral unruly water rights holders into some semblance of a state water policy... mostly unsuccessfully.

The state does own some of the conveyance however, state water project canals, for example. That is but a piece of the whole puzzle however.

Splitting the state into three wouldn't alter the water rights situation one iota as far as I can tell. I'm open to other opinions though! :)

DMT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 15, 2018 - 09:30am PT
Water rights are one thing...water avaiable another. California has a problem that can only worsen.
California’s statewide annual percipitation is 21.44 inches compared to a national average of 30.21.
That should be a bit ominous for a state with 39.5 million people but then add agriculture.
California produce receipts in agriculture that were 20 billion dollars more than any other state.
Consider that 80% of the water used in California is used for agriculture and you see the true scope of the problem.
Ground water is being used far more then it is being replenished,,,,then what?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jun 15, 2018 - 10:06am PT
Escape the jack booted tyranny of the libtards who soak us with tax bills to pay for lavender and paisley

..and county relief checks.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 15, 2018 - 10:07am PT
the current consumption of water in California is unsustainable

Agriculture is 1% of the California economy. A case can be made that certain types of farming are becoming obsolete. subsidizing stupid crops with cheap water is poor policy

Ground water is being used far more then it is being replenished,,,,then what?

Reducing use by raising prices
Desalinization with renewable energy

http://www.carlsbaddesal.com/

The Claude “Bud” Lewis Carlsbad Desalination Plant is the largest, most technologically advanced and energy-efficient seawater desalination plant in the nation. Each day, the plant delivers nearly 50 million gallons (56,000 acre-feet per year (AFY)) of fresh, desalinated water to San Diego County – enough to serve approximately 400,000 people
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jun 15, 2018 - 10:47am PT
^^^ Don't buy almonds or grapes or anything made from them, or be part of the problem and not the solution.

Consumption problems start with us consumers, don't they?

DMT
BJ

climber
Jun 15, 2018 - 11:02am PT
Easy fix. I'm not going to buy any agricultural product that uses or contains water.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 15, 2018 - 11:09am PT
If each user paid the FMV of the water they were using then the market would take care of itself. Corruption and influence stop that from happening. Policy is not set with the greater pubic good in mind, policy is set to benefit the most powerful constituents.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jun 15, 2018 - 11:23am PT
If each user paid the FMV of the water they were using then the market would take care of itself.

The problem with this idea is many of the users either own the water rights or own the conveyance of the water. It's their property. You'd first have to buy their water rights and their canals, then sell the water back to them at market rates.

That is the conundrum of California water rights. The Big Fix will cost trillions. You can't just take the water from them that own it. Eminent Domain won't work, it's been tried. These big water interests have been fighting for keeps for decade upon decade. They know a thing or two about how to get their way.

Farm by farm, river by river, watershed by watershed, aquifer by aquifer, the state or fed would have to buy it all up. It will cost trillions.

DMT
AntiChrist

Gym climber
Urth
Jun 15, 2018 - 11:24am PT

Splitting the state into three wouldn't alter the water rights situation one iota as far as I can tell. I'm open to other opinions though! :)

It would open existing water rights claims up to federal interpretation, as all interstate water rights issues are. That will certainly alter who gets water depending on who is blowing whom.

As an example, the Alpine Decree was the result of a 50 yr legal battle between the feds (BOR Newlands Project in NV) and Alpine Reservoir Company in CA. The end result was... users on upstream segments of the Carson River don't need to consider users on downstream segments when satisfying their water rights. What's that upstream users, you need 10 ac-ft per acre? okay, sorry feds (Newlands) nothing left... bummer.

The fact that ag is only 1% of CA economy is one of those ignorant facts that assumes the other 99% could exist without affordable food. Absolutely and absurdly dumb logic there.

BJ has the only reasonable solution to our current water situation in the west. I wish a few hundred million idiots would follow his advice.
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