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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 29, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
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Yeah, I know - another political thread in a climbing forum.
In my 86 years I have watched the US slide into something I don’t know and don’t like, and it is accelerating. I have never been so pessimistic about the future of not just the US, but of all mankind. Sort of glad my days are numbered and I won’t have to see more of it. Sorry for my kids. Sorry for you, if you are not a senior.
Decades ago I figured that the world would swing to the right, inevitably. More population, more government. But the control moves inexorably toward inequality and environmental destruction. And the average citizen’s voice is insignificant compared to the moneyed interests.
What are we now? Certainly not a democracy. An oligarchy? A neo-fascist state? A corporatocracy? What do you call it?
And where is it going?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Mar 29, 2018 - 07:32pm PT
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We have become the worst nightmare... A stoopidocracy...
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Mar 29, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
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With Trump as President we are living real time in the movie Idiocracy
Structurally we have never been a Democracy, instead we a Oligarchy where an elite few dominate US policy
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Mar 29, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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Republic
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
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and I won’t have to see more of it.
You will, there's no escape .....
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Mar 29, 2018 - 08:06pm PT
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Dresses way to the right.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Mar 29, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
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Norton is right, we have never been, structurally, a democracy. Rather a representative republic.
That said, despite my optimistic spirit - well known among my friends, and sometimes to my detriment - I am not so optimistic now.
Think about the fact that the civil War ended about 153 years ago. That seems like a long time, yes? But if two people live to age 75 it is merely their lifetimes back to back. It's yesterday. Cannons. Carnage. The bloodiest of our wars, with no internal combustion engines. Two lifetimes ago.
Since then the human population and technology have exploded. We have a fleet of ballistic missile submarines, doomsday machines, but these concepts are relics from the Cold War. It is in the last few decades, the blink of an eye, that we are overwhelmed with information. This is happening at an accelerating pace, it is relentless, and I don't think we can keep up with it.
As a collective race we're going insane.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 29, 2018 - 08:18pm PT
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people either don't have a clue or simply ignore all the clues
you are not your vehicle and you don't cease to exist when you leave your vehicle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrPDV4__8o
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
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If ya can't beat and won't join 'em, bomb 'em?
-George Metesky
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.”
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
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As a collective race we're going insane.
LOL ... I have been saying for years here that you people are insane ....
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Mar 29, 2018 - 08:43pm PT
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^^^^^respectfully.......
anyone who thinks they know something ;quantum physics mi agigo el pato que fuma.
Humility: if you claim it you do not have it. There, duck outsmarted. Stupid ducks...shit in their bathtub :)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 29, 2018 - 08:58pm PT
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I dunno Wayne. Half of me agrees with you, half of me is not so pessimistic.
Well, not in the long term. In the near term, maybe you're right. The US is f*#ked. And maybe the f*#ked-up US will trash the whole world.
But it's happened before. And the world has recovered. Which is maybe no comfort to the generations that live through the horror, but... I don't know, we -- us humans -- have survived some pretty horrific times in the past.
And, regarding democracy, as several others have pointed out, the US was never a democracy. The "founding fathers" that Americans worship so mindlessly would have jumped off a cliff at the thought of democracy.
Not to say that the foundation they laid was a poor one, but it was definitely not laid with what we think of as democracy in mind.
Maybe our children's children's children...
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
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I’m beginning to agree, fossil climber, and I’ve been an optimist my entire life. I’m beginnig to have doubts that we can keep things from falling part. The leaky dike is getting too many holes to plug.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Mar 29, 2018 - 09:35pm PT
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I'm actually optimistic about the US -- even if our current senile narcissist leader survives a whole four years, inertia will keep the republic more or less as it was. As for humanity as a whole... I'm glad I don't have kids. We won't go extinct, but Mother Nature has ugly ways of dealing with overpopulation.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Mar 29, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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This is why we are climbers. We are climbers because we know what's up.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:43pm PT
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I still say the microbes and viruses will have the last word. They are tireless in their research
and testing which we abet with airplanes and crankloons who are too stoopid to practice basic
hygiene, not that it will matter when the big one hits.
I’ll be here soon, literally...
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Mar 30, 2018 - 06:42am PT
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Fossil climber:
In my 86 years I have watched the US slide into something I don’t know and don’t like, and it is accelerating. I have never been so pessimistic about the future of not just the US, but of all mankind. Sort of glad my days are numbered and I won’t have to see more of it. Sorry for my kids. Similarly I am concerned about my son, his friends and his generation.
It looks like in a near future there is no immediate improvement.
... control moves inexorably toward inequality and environmental destruction. And the average citizen’s voice is insignificant compared to the moneyed interests.
What are we now? Certainly not a democracy. ... And where is it going? It's not a new development.
Similar situations were already observed in the US (end of the 19th century) and other countries.
Peter Turchin put a lot of efforts into clarification of these patterns.
If you want to understand his prediction (that are based on attempts to apply quantitative approach to history and culture) you may start e.g. with Return of the oppressed.
For more details you can go to http://peterturchin.com/.
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clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
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Mar 30, 2018 - 06:58am PT
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Jimmy Carter: U.S. Is an 'Oligarchy With Unlimited Political Bribery'
Former President Jimmy Carter had some harsh words to say about the current state of America's electoral process, calling the country "an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery" resulting in "nominations for president or to elect the president." When asked this week by The Thom Hartmann Program (via The Intercept) about the Supreme Court's April 2014 decision to eliminate limits on campaign donations, Carter said the ruling "violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system."
The 39th president also voiced concerns that the limitless flow of campaign cash severely favors those already in office. "The same thing applies to governors and U.S. senators and congress members," Carter said. "So now we've just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election's over."
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731
https://www.google.com/search?q=jimmy+carter+oligarchy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1
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Yeti
Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
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Mar 30, 2018 - 07:04am PT
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Wayne: Re: Democracy and inequality. It is worth remembering that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were slave owners. George made his living buying and selling slaves, and Thomas fathered children with his slaves. The first draft of the U.S. Constitution, written by Jefferson, reads "...all free men are created equal..." The removal of the word 'free' was a political calculation and compromise, not a moral definition of democracy. That is, the social dynamics that have led to the current state of America, most clearly expressed by the millions of citizens who support and believe in Demented Donald, have been there from the beginning. I like to paraphrase something Chouinard said in public a couple of years ago: "No, I'm not optimistic about the state of the world. How can you be? But we'll keep on fighting because it's the right thing to do." Keep on fighting, Wayne. Remember, "I'd rather be a hammer than a nail." Cheers......Yeti
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 30, 2018 - 07:27am PT
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Read more history.
All empires fail... every one. Always.
Stop the hand wringing, it's nothing new.
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