What are we? Not a democracy.


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Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 29, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
Yeah, I know - another political thread in a climbing forum.

In my 86 years I have watched the US slide into something I donít know and donít like, and it is accelerating. I have never been so pessimistic about the future of not just the US, but of all mankind. Sort of glad my days are numbered and I wonít have to see more of it. Sorry for my kids. Sorry for you, if you are not a senior.

Decades ago I figured that the world would swing to the right, inevitably. More population, more government. But the control moves inexorably toward inequality and environmental destruction. And the average citizenís voice is insignificant compared to the moneyed interests.

What are we now? Certainly not a democracy. An oligarchy? A neo-fascist state? A corporatocracy? What do you call it?

And where is it going?

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 29, 2018 - 07:32pm PT
We have become the worst nightmare... A stoopidocracy...

The Wastelands
Mar 29, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
With Trump as President we are living real time in the movie Idiocracy

Structurally we have never been a Democracy, instead we a Oligarchy where an elite few dominate US policy

Mar 29, 2018 - 07:57pm PT

Mar 29, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
and I wonít have to see more of it.

You will, there's no escape .....
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:06pm PT
Credit: mouse from merced
Dresses way to the right.

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
Norton is right, we have never been, structurally, a democracy. Rather a representative republic.

That said, despite my optimistic spirit - well known among my friends, and sometimes to my detriment - I am not so optimistic now.

Think about the fact that the civil War ended about 153 years ago. That seems like a long time, yes? But if two people live to age 75 it is merely their lifetimes back to back. It's yesterday. Cannons. Carnage. The bloodiest of our wars, with no internal combustion engines. Two lifetimes ago.

Since then the human population and technology have exploded. We have a fleet of ballistic missile submarines, doomsday machines, but these concepts are relics from the Cold War. It is in the last few decades, the blink of an eye, that we are overwhelmed with information. This is happening at an accelerating pace, it is relentless, and I don't think we can keep up with it.

As a collective race we're going insane.

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:18pm PT
people either don't have a clue or simply ignore all the clues

you are not your vehicle and you don't cease to exist when you leave your vehicle


Ice climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
If ya can't beat and won't join 'em, bomb 'em?
-George Metesky

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human faceófor ever.Ē

Mar 29, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
As a collective race we're going insane.

LOL ... I have been saying for years here that you people are insane ....

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:43pm PT

anyone who thinks they know something ;quantum physics mi agigo el pato que fuma.

Humility: if you claim it you do not have it. There, duck outsmarted. Stupid ducks...shit in their bathtub :)

Ice climber
great white north
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:47pm PT

a kleptocracy

A long way from where I started
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:58pm PT
I dunno Wayne. Half of me agrees with you, half of me is not so pessimistic.

Well, not in the long term. In the near term, maybe you're right. The US is f*#ked. And maybe the f*#ked-up US will trash the whole world.

But it's happened before. And the world has recovered. Which is maybe no comfort to the generations that live through the horror, but... I don't know, we -- us humans -- have survived some pretty horrific times in the past.

And, regarding democracy, as several others have pointed out, the US was never a democracy. The "founding fathers" that Americans worship so mindlessly would have jumped off a cliff at the thought of democracy.

Not to say that the foundation they laid was a poor one, but it was definitely not laid with what we think of as democracy in mind.

Maybe our children's children's children...
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
Comes around goes around. There's too many damn people, feel free to step off the boat any time yall wish.

I know, I know, doomesaying can be satisfying in some dark, self-loathing kind of way. Just look at malemoot.

But it really doesn't matter. From dust to dust.

Have a good time all the time. Rome's burning and I need a fiddle tune!

T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:06pm PT
What are we?
Screwed sheeple.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#524147

Mar 29, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
Iím beginning to agree, fossil climber, and Iíve been an optimist my entire life. Iím beginnig to have doubts that we can keep things from falling part. The leaky dike is getting too many holes to plug.

Mountain climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:35pm PT
I'm actually optimistic about the US -- even if our current senile narcissist leader survives a whole four years, inertia will keep the republic more or less as it was. As for humanity as a whole... I'm glad I don't have kids. We won't go extinct, but Mother Nature has ugly ways of dealing with overpopulation.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
This is why we are climbers. We are climbers because we know what's up.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 29, 2018 - 10:43pm PT
I still say the microbes and viruses will have the last word. They are tireless in their research
and testing which we abet with airplanes and crankloons who are too stoopid to practice basic
hygiene, not that it will matter when the big one hits.

Iíll be here soon, literally...

Donít worry, I donít want yer pity.
Donít worry, I donít want yer pity.
Credit: Reilly
Robert L

Mar 30, 2018 - 05:16am PT
Americans with an inclination towards what guys like Nader and Sanders spoke of, re the environment and adressing inequality,
Would rather vote for Gore and Clinton, than vote for Nader or Sanders,
because they worry about how such is a better stratergy for beating the Repubs.

That stuff may be central to tge problem with US democracy.
Too many vote with stratergy in mind. If they (could have) voted for what they actually believed in, you probably wouldnít have had Trump, Bush, or a Clinton for president.
The planet would be in a better state than currently and predicted if the vote winners were:
 Rewarded for their patience
 Rewarded for engaging and amicably resolving issues with the intíl competition
 Rewarded for fostering social and environmental stewardship
 To ditch the importance of total and mean GDP growth as a central economic target

Thereís reason to be optimistic: Most people still enjoy music, laughing, doing kind things for others, and embracing nature. So long as these things remain popular, they can be leveraged to move people in a positive direction.
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