What are we? Not a democracy.

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Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 29, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
Yeah, I know - another political thread in a climbing forum.

In my 86 years I have watched the US slide into something I don’t know and don’t like, and it is accelerating. I have never been so pessimistic about the future of not just the US, but of all mankind. Sort of glad my days are numbered and I won’t have to see more of it. Sorry for my kids. Sorry for you, if you are not a senior.

Decades ago I figured that the world would swing to the right, inevitably. More population, more government. But the control moves inexorably toward inequality and environmental destruction. And the average citizen’s voice is insignificant compared to the moneyed interests.

What are we now? Certainly not a democracy. An oligarchy? A neo-fascist state? A corporatocracy? What do you call it?

And where is it going?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 29, 2018 - 07:32pm PT
We have become the worst nightmare... A stoopidocracy...
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Mar 29, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
With Trump as President we are living real time in the movie Idiocracy

Structurally we have never been a Democracy, instead we a Oligarchy where an elite few dominate US policy
jogill

climber
Colorado
Mar 29, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
Republic
WBraun

climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:05pm PT
and I won’t have to see more of it.

You will, there's no escape .....
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:06pm PT
Dresses way to the right.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
Norton is right, we have never been, structurally, a democracy. Rather a representative republic.

That said, despite my optimistic spirit - well known among my friends, and sometimes to my detriment - I am not so optimistic now.

Think about the fact that the civil War ended about 153 years ago. That seems like a long time, yes? But if two people live to age 75 it is merely their lifetimes back to back. It's yesterday. Cannons. Carnage. The bloodiest of our wars, with no internal combustion engines. Two lifetimes ago.

Since then the human population and technology have exploded. We have a fleet of ballistic missile submarines, doomsday machines, but these concepts are relics from the Cold War. It is in the last few decades, the blink of an eye, that we are overwhelmed with information. This is happening at an accelerating pace, it is relentless, and I don't think we can keep up with it.

As a collective race we're going insane.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:18pm PT
people either don't have a clue or simply ignore all the clues

you are not your vehicle and you don't cease to exist when you leave your vehicle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrPDV4__8o
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
If ya can't beat and won't join 'em, bomb 'em?
-George Metesky


"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.”
WBraun

climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
As a collective race we're going insane.

LOL ... I have been saying for years here that you people are insane ....
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:43pm PT
^^^^^respectfully.......

anyone who thinks they know something ;quantum physics mi agigo el pato que fuma.

Humility: if you claim it you do not have it. There, duck outsmarted. Stupid ducks...shit in their bathtub :)
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 29, 2018 - 08:58pm PT
I dunno Wayne. Half of me agrees with you, half of me is not so pessimistic.

Well, not in the long term. In the near term, maybe you're right. The US is f*#ked. And maybe the f*#ked-up US will trash the whole world.

But it's happened before. And the world has recovered. Which is maybe no comfort to the generations that live through the horror, but... I don't know, we -- us humans -- have survived some pretty horrific times in the past.

And, regarding democracy, as several others have pointed out, the US was never a democracy. The "founding fathers" that Americans worship so mindlessly would have jumped off a cliff at the thought of democracy.

Not to say that the foundation they laid was a poor one, but it was definitely not laid with what we think of as democracy in mind.

Maybe our children's children's children...
dirtbag

climber
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
I’m beginning to agree, fossil climber, and I’ve been an optimist my entire life. I’m beginnig to have doubts that we can keep things from falling part. The leaky dike is getting too many holes to plug.
seano

Mountain climber
none
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:35pm PT
I'm actually optimistic about the US -- even if our current senile narcissist leader survives a whole four years, inertia will keep the republic more or less as it was. As for humanity as a whole... I'm glad I don't have kids. We won't go extinct, but Mother Nature has ugly ways of dealing with overpopulation.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Mar 29, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
This is why we are climbers. We are climbers because we know what's up.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 29, 2018 - 10:43pm PT
I still say the microbes and viruses will have the last word. They are tireless in their research
and testing which we abet with airplanes and crankloons who are too stoopid to practice basic
hygiene, not that it will matter when the big one hits.

I’ll be here soon, literally...

Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Mar 30, 2018 - 06:42am PT
Fossil climber:
In my 86 years I have watched the US slide into something I don’t know and don’t like, and it is accelerating. I have never been so pessimistic about the future of not just the US, but of all mankind. Sort of glad my days are numbered and I won’t have to see more of it. Sorry for my kids.
Similarly I am concerned about my son, his friends and his generation.
It looks like in a near future there is no immediate improvement.

... control moves inexorably toward inequality and environmental destruction. And the average citizen’s voice is insignificant compared to the moneyed interests.
What are we now? Certainly not a democracy. ... And where is it going?
It's not a new development.
Similar situations were already observed in the US (end of the 19th century) and other countries.
Peter Turchin put a lot of efforts into clarification of these patterns.
If you want to understand his prediction (that are based on attempts to apply quantitative approach to history and culture) you may start e.g. with Return of the oppressed.

For more details you can go to http://peterturchin.com/.
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Mar 30, 2018 - 06:58am PT
Jimmy Carter: U.S. Is an 'Oligarchy With Unlimited Political Bribery'

Former President Jimmy Carter had some harsh words to say about the current state of America's electoral process, calling the country "an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery" resulting in "nominations for president or to elect the president." When asked this week by The Thom Hartmann Program (via The Intercept) about the Supreme Court's April 2014 decision to eliminate limits on campaign donations, Carter said the ruling "violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system."

The 39th president also voiced concerns that the limitless flow of campaign cash severely favors those already in office. "The same thing applies to governors and U.S. senators and congress members," Carter said. "So now we've just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election's over."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731

https://www.google.com/search?q=jimmy+carter+oligarchy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1
Yeti

Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
Mar 30, 2018 - 07:04am PT
Wayne: Re: Democracy and inequality. It is worth remembering that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were slave owners. George made his living buying and selling slaves, and Thomas fathered children with his slaves. The first draft of the U.S. Constitution, written by Jefferson, reads "...all free men are created equal..." The removal of the word 'free' was a political calculation and compromise, not a moral definition of democracy. That is, the social dynamics that have led to the current state of America, most clearly expressed by the millions of citizens who support and believe in Demented Donald, have been there from the beginning. I like to paraphrase something Chouinard said in public a couple of years ago: "No, I'm not optimistic about the state of the world. How can you be? But we'll keep on fighting because it's the right thing to do." Keep on fighting, Wayne. Remember, "I'd rather be a hammer than a nail." Cheers......Yeti
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 30, 2018 - 07:27am PT
Read more history.

All empires fail... every one. Always.

Stop the hand wringing, it's nothing new.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 30, 2018 - 08:22am PT
We sure don’t have a say in who rules us from the bench. Where do they get these crankloons?

Starbucks coffee in California must have cancer warning, judge says

By Nate Raymond

Starbucks Corp and other coffee sellers must put a cancer warning on coffee sold in California, a Los Angeles judge has ruled, possibly exposing the companies to millions of dollars in fines.
A little-known not-for-profit group sued some 90 coffee retailers, including Starbucks, on grounds they were violating a California law requiring companies to warn consumers of chemicals in their products that could cause cancer.
One of those chemicals is acrylamide, a byproduct of roasting coffee beans that is present in high levels in brewed coffee.
Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Elihu Berle said in a decision dated Wednesday that Starbucks and other companies had failed to show there was no significant risk from a carcinogen produced in the coffee roasting process, court documents showed.
Starbucks and other defendants have until April 10 to file objections to the decision.
Starbucks declined to comment, referring reporters to a statement by the National Coffee Association (NCA) that said the industry was considering an appeal and further legal actions.
"Cancer warning labels on coffee would be misleading. The U.S. government’s own Dietary Guidelines state that coffee can be part of a healthy lifestyle," the NCA statement said.
In his decision, Berle said: "Defendants failed to satisfy their burden of proving by a preponderance of evidence that consumption of coffee confers a benefit to human health."
Officials from Dunkin’ Donuts, McDonald's Corp, Peet's and other big coffee sellers did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
The lawsuit was filed in 2010 by the Council for Education and Research on Toxics (CERT). It calls for fines as large as $2,500 per person for every exposure to the chemical since 2002 at the defendants’ shops in California. Any civil penalties, which will be decided in a third phase of the trial, could be huge in California, which has a population of nearly 40 million.
CERT's lawyer Raphael Metzger did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Starbucks lost the first phase of the trial in which it failed to show the level of acrylamide in coffee was below that which would pose a significant risk of cancer. In the second phase of the trial, defendants failed to prove there was an acceptable "alternative" risk level for the carcinogen, court documents showed.
Several defendants in the case settled before Wednesday's decision, agreeing to post signage about the cancer-linked chemical and pay millions in fines, according to published reports.
(Reporting by Nate Raymond; Additional reporting by Lisa Baertlein; Writing by Andrew Hay; Editing by Richard Chang and Leslie Adler)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 30, 2018 - 08:33am PT
The lawsuit was filed in 2010 by the Council for Education and Research on Toxics (CERT). It calls for fines as large as $2,500 per person for every exposure to the chemical since 2002 at the defendants’ shops in California.

These buttholes are just trying to make a name for themselves and a pile of cash, and drive
up the cost of a cuppa. What is sad is that they found a judge to abet them.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 30, 2018 - 08:38am PT
After an appeal, I doubt the ruling will stand. Still, the rank stupidity is duly noted.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:31am PT
Probably about another buck per cup? Dunno...just a guesstimate, really.

We'd all likely be less aggro w/o caffeine, anyway.

The USA is a republic, as the estimable gymnast John Gill said last page. And the way the Roman republic ran, very often differences were settled in the Forum with blood and riots. Or assassination.

I prefer the Congressional Theater and the Cabinet Comics Daily that now serves the same purpose. DT has been assassinated in print so much that he should be wearing a shroud in public.
chipper_shredder

Social climber
outinthecuts
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:35am PT
I can't tell you exactly when it happened, at some point in Not too distant past
We stopped being citizens, and became consumers, In The eyes of the people in power.
So many warned of ramifications of....well you name it,

News consolidation
Climate change
Deforestation
Proliferation of plastics
Wall steeet gambling obsession & the 401k making you play along
Corrupt power hungry politicians
Lifestyles of the rich and famous & Americans obsession to become one

Future generations will look back on the last 40-50 years
And we will be forced to see how stupid and shortsighted we were
Blowing through vast resources for the bettterment of so few.

Is it not so clear ?
It is also not too late
Take back your citizenship & stand up for what YOU believe in.


Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:57am PT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 30, 2018 - 10:01am PT
Not a Democracy at all,in fact a Corporate sponsored Anocracy and speeding toward it very fast.

Look at ,Health care,Trade,War and almost any domestic policy.

Corporations are entitled people.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2018 - 10:44am PT
Sort of sorry I posted this - I’ve just been getting more and more depressed, not seeing a way out of this. Watching too much news, I guess.

The only potential bright spot I see is the chance of Dems taking house and senate - not that the Dems are all that wonderful either. Might slow down the madman a little. But if that fails…

Maybe I should take your advice, Ricky - piss on it and walk away. Hard not to fight, though.

Thanks for good thoughts.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 30, 2018 - 11:03am PT
Your apathy is shared and your honesty appreciated,wish I had better thoughts.
I do not.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 30, 2018 - 11:44am PT

But it's happened before. And the world has recovered. Which is maybe no comfort to the generations that live through the horror, but... I don't know, we -- us humans -- have survived some pretty horrific times in the past.

True. But when it happened before things like nuclear weapons didn't exist.

And previous civilizations have come and gone. But this time, the entire world is interconnected. Once upon a time, empires in China could come and go with no effect on what was happening in the Mediterranean.

Those days are gone.

If China and India had a full scaled war today, or even India and Pakistan... I'm not sure world civilization would survive. If you thought the 2008 financial crisis was bad, image the financial crisis a full scale war would create. Let alone if someone decided to start using tactical nuclear weapons.

It's hard to see how any democracy is going to function in the age of echo chamber and fake news.

Technology is fundamentally changing political society. The ability of AI to track everything that every individual does is no longer science fiction. Some combination of Brave New World and an Orwellian 1984 is very possible. China is creating AI to give everyone a "social score". Go to a protests or send the wrong text message and you won't be able to get a mortgage for your house or send your kid to a good school.

Must be time to go climbing...
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Mar 30, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
Fossil climber:
The only potential bright spot I see is the chance of Dems taking house and senate ...
It's nice to be young and naïve and believe in fairy tales.

However if we look at numbers (and numbers on http://peterturchin.com/ and elsewhere show the same patterns) we would notice that disparity between rich and poor/middle class (that is a root cause of the current social unrest) was growing since 1978 regardless who was in power.
So believing that Democrats would suddenly stop doing what they were doing for the last fifty years and would suddenly start caring about people is a wishful thinking.

Both Republicans and Democrats should be on the same board to stop this insanity and this would happen only when US is on the brink of a revolution.
The current situation is not that bad (e.g. your believeth that Democrats can fix this is just one more proof) and we need to wait for further deterioration of a social peace until both party start to cooperate and care about people.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 30, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
40 Years of Reaganomitics that has decimated the middle class, the Republican lying media, Republican/anti-democratic polices and allowing the rich to buy Republicans have directly led to our predicament.

The Republicans have done everything in their power to fix the vote by gerrymandering, voter suppression, voter crosscheck and other election fraud antics to keep them in power even when the people that vote for them are not the majority

We have an Authoritarian President Now, and he is gutting our Democracy and turning into a Autocracy with Billionaire rule.

Though it's really has been billionaire rule ever since Reagan, they are the one pulling the strings behind the Republican scene, they are the true illuminati

Voting for any Republicans will just speed up the race to the bottom, our only chance is for the Democrats to have a filibuster majority and then tell the fascist Republicans to shut up and sit down, they lost.
WBraun

climber
Mar 30, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
Let alone if someone decided to start using tactical nuclear weapons.

Tactical nuclear weapons have been used for years now.

No wonder Americans are so clueless, their sorry azz corrupt and st00pid mainstream media reports nothing ever except st000pid brainwashing worthless sh!t .....
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Mar 30, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
Ah, love your friends and yer dog. Go for a walk. Go climbing! I did today with some good friends, met a cool local, led some--for me--hard climbs. My groovy, groovy hound was mad chillin' at the base. Life is good.

Sorry for this unwanted note of optimism.

BAd
Gimp

Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
Mar 31, 2018 - 08:49am PT
I think Tami is correct in describing the government as feudal.
If you think the general populace is thought of as anything other than serfs by "leadership" and the "elites", as they have taken to calling themselves, I think you are sadly mistaken.


TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 31, 2018 - 11:30am PT
people seem unwilling or unable to see that our 'elite leaders' are really the biggest criminals who have fought their way up in their evil cartels

these 'elite' are willing to mercilessly sacrifice any or all of us to enhance and protect their power positions

until people wake up and take responsibility for these facts, there is not much hope for positive futures

spiritual enlightenment trumps any amount of material wealth and power

Trump

climber
Mar 31, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
What are we? We’re 4 billion years in the making!

Those who don’t study history are condemned to repeat it. And you can believe that we’ll repeat history again this time, just like all of the other times, because there’s nothing new under the sun.

We sure have learned some interesting ways of believing!

Yea I’ve been trying to dig my way out of that one too fossil. I think the easiest way to do it, if you can manage it, is to just believe some stuff that’s not true. 4 billion years of practice isn’t a bad start.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 31, 2018 - 12:33pm PT
Fossil climber:
The only potential bright spot I see is the chance of Dems taking house and senate ...

Yury:

It's nice to be young and naïve and believe in fairy tales.

However if we look at numbers (and numbers on http://peterturchin.com/ and elsewhere show the same patterns) we would notice that disparity between rich and poor/middle class (that is a root cause of the current social unrest) was growing since 1978 regardless who was in power.
So believing that Democrats would suddenly stop doing what they were doing for the last fifty years and would suddenly start caring about people is a wishful thinking.

Both Republicans and Democrats should be on the same board to stop this insanity and this would happen only when US is on the brink of a revolution.
The current situation is not that bad (e.g. your believeth that Democrats can fix this is just one more proof) and we need to wait for further deterioration of a social peace until both party start to cooperate and care about people.

Look, thinking that if the Dems take control that that is a bright spot isn't the same as thinking the Dems will deliver us to paradise.

Yes, inequality has generally been increasing for decades under both R's and Dems, and Tories, and Labor, and Christian Democrats, and...

But, for instance, who pushed through legislation that mostly taxed the rich to provide health care for the poor? Who gave a trillion dollar tax cut that went mostly to the top 1% when they had control?

Just because the Dems are bad does not mean that the R's aren't much, much worse.

DanaB

climber
CO
Mar 31, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
But it's happened before. And the world has recovered.

That's very comforting to the countless millions that have been killed and oppressed.


Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 31, 2018 - 04:06pm PT
Looking at the current political situation, the irreparable harm being to the environment (at least for purposes of our lifetime), the gradual undermining if not outright attack on our democratic institutions (efforts to undermine an independent judiciary, attacks on a free press, etc.), it's hard not to despair. However, the problem isn't just with Washington. The blame lies in large part with an ignorant, entitled populous who are either too stupid or too lazy to educate themselves about the issues and think critically about their choices. A Democratic majority Congress is one short term fix but, unless people wake up and think their choices are broader than guns vs. gun control or no abortions vs. reproductive rights, we're going to be stuck in a similar cycle for the foreseeable future.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 31, 2018 - 04:44pm PT
We are, in theory, a representative democratic republic, but thanks to the electoral college and ignorance we have devolved into a bitchfest.

If you don't vote you can't whine and if you did this is all your fault (and Werner's).
WBraun

climber
Mar 31, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
LOL .....
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2018 - 04:57pm PT
Guess I'm not alone. Sort of sorry I started that - just got into a fit of depression from watching too much news and had to vent.

Yeah, the Dems are problematic too, but an improvement.

Maybe the brightest potential of all lies in the plodding progress of Mr. Muller.

Bad, thanks for the note of optimism! Guess we all need that. Today the sun is shining and it is special blue wax temperature and maybe I can force my way out to shuffle around on skis a bit, talk to the moose & ravens. Hang in there.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 31, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
The very fact that Werner is virtually the only one whose fingerprints are NOT all over this tells me he must have masterminded it!
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 31, 2018 - 05:46pm PT
Wayne

The U.S. right now is largely controlled by lawyers and lobbyists.

The reason Trump was elected was that the other person running was in a small agricultural town and said to one of her aides, "What the F--- are we doing in this place, there's no money here." Both choices were so bad, but many people couldn't stomach a person who claims to represent the dispossessed and downtrodden, but says stuff like that in private.

But I think in the long run, electing him will eventually result in a backlash, and people with more integrity and idealism will enter politics. But we may have not reached the bottom yet!!
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Mar 31, 2018 - 06:17pm PT
Check this out. Latest project is converting a Trump hotel suite into an anti Trump prison exhibit
https://thisisindecline.com/
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Apr 1, 2018 - 04:54am PT
Fossil,
I don't have any answers, but stop watching the news, seriously.
I stopped watching all TV news at age 18; even then I could see it was sensationalist BS.

More fear= more add revenue.

Peace
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 1, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
if you want to understand, it's probably a good idea for you to take the time to get briefed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCZTpPYCsw4
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 1, 2018 - 05:36pm PT
I can never figure out how the big conspiracies are kept under wraps.
Someone will always tell.
Do you think the govt or powers that be are that competent? Maybe the Mossad but certainly not the US groups.
WBraun

climber
Apr 1, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
Someone will always tell.

Americans are far too brainwashed to understand anything beyond what they are fed by their st00pid mainstream controlled media.

Most people have no time to research for years to understand.

And you wonder why your country is going to hell.

Someone will always tell, and when it's the truth they get the chop along with their whole credibility.

You sheep are always controlled .......
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Apr 1, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
A Country named Braun....lol
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 1, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
Oh we are controlled all right probably just in other ways.
Canadians are controlled as well.
No need for complicated stuff. You have a very corrupt govt, It takes lots of money and backing from the financial powers, lobbying groups to get elected. Once the politicians are in office they always make sure the system is gamed so their friends get their proper share plus a lot more. The big story is how the poor and middle class are subsidizing the rich.
This will not end until the money spigot is shut off.
Was your recent tax cut a move to help the working class? They will end up paying for the added debt.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Apr 4, 2018 - 08:11am PT
Standing with Rosa

It happened in Memphis
Fifty years ago to the day
Now this world has not changed much
That’s what some people say

Gunned down where he stood there
One day after his great speech
He had gone to the mountain
With one last lesson to teach

Now where once we had champions
For equality and verity
We have only false prophets
Lacking hope and all charity

Who would lead us to chaos
Trading freedom for war
Prostituting our visions
Of what liberty is for

Let’s remember those days when
Humble folks took a stand
When the César’s and Martin’s
Marched for truth across the land

-bushman
04/04/2018
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2018 - 10:05am PT
Thanks for improving my vocabulary, Malemute! Sounds right to me.

And nice shot with the verse, Bushman.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 4, 2018 - 10:38am PT

America has ended up as primarily designed for corporations, not for people, which makes it a kleptocracy, but America is still, as an image, carrying the clothing of democracy...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Apr 4, 2018 - 10:51am PT
Didn't realize today was the 50th anniversary of MLK's assassination.

Thanks Bushman.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 4, 2018 - 10:59am PT
if you want to understand, it's probably a good idea for you to take the time to get briefed

It's like feeding pablum and brown sugar to a baby.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 4, 2018 - 11:42am PT
It's not all b.s.

Tuning out is surrendering, giving power to the people destroying things you value. Future generations will go through great hardships and face death to reclaim what we are losing, because we are so cowardly we can't even look at the things that disgust us which we are implicitly condoning. "Oh, it makes me feel bad. I'll pretend it's not happening and then I can go back to my happy place. Phew, that was close! Almost harshed my mellow!"

Latest example I noticed:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2954837&tn=160
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 4, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
Let's agree not to confuse politics and carpetbagging for nutjobbery.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 4, 2018 - 05:55pm PT
A troll is born!
Lituya

Mountain climber
Apr 4, 2018 - 09:25pm PT
Love the way you Calilibs all take turns wanking eachother circle-style, but don't you ever, ummmmm, you know, "finish?"
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 5, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
The USA controls vast resources.

Most of these resources are under the control of a very small 'elite' cabal.

Most USA citizens know so little about what is being done in their name and with their resources, that it is hardly worthwhile to attempt engaging in a discussion.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 9, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
The general impression is that the Trump administration is going against all major international agreements reached in recent years without actually offering an alternative, multiple sources agreed.

On top of that, Trump U.S. Commerce officials, working against the advice of the Pentagon, have declared a trade war with China that they are mathematically doomed to lose. China’s government has already promised to “fight to the end at any cost.”

So what is really going on here? The answer, of course, is that the group of Western leaders who brought us the fake war on terror and the various invasions that followed are terrified of losing power and consequently being charged with multiple war crimes. This is the real reason why they are acting, collectively, in an irrational and hysterical manner.

The situation in the U.S. remains the most intense, as an undeclared but de facto civil war is raging there. The war pits the fascist Khazarian mafia faction that staged 9/11, the Iraq War, and Fukushima against patriots who want to restore democracy and the rule of law to the West.

Unlike the open warfare of previous civil wars, this one is being fought over the instruments of mass mind control, including money, propaganda, cyberwarfare, targeted assassinations, and unpublicized battles between special forces.

The ongoing attacks on Facebook, Amazon, Google, Twitter, and Microsoft, even as these Internet giants strive to censor the web, are just one visible aspect of this new type of war.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 9, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
Khazarian mafia

It just doesn't get any more moronic than this.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Apr 9, 2018 - 10:16pm PT
Moronic indeed. But this is the company you keep, Joseph.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
where to compare anything in American life to the horrors of Hitler and the Nazi era is automatically dismissed

Yeah, instant dismissal being the crutch of both the left and the right. The left's version is to just call any ideas they don't agree with: bigotry, hate speech, and fascism.

Instant dismissal is the tactic of weak and closed minds. And there's plenty of legitimate condemnation to go around levied at both left and right. Both the left and the right believe that they have the moral high ground, which begs the question, because they are both wrong on this point.
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