Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 09:29am PT
|
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 09:40am PT
|
WHERE’S MY WELFARE CHECK?
|
|
hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 09:45am PT
|
In November of 1995, the federal government ran out of money after congress failed to pass a budget. Arnberger had to evacuate and close the Grand Canyon for the first time in the national park's history. But it's what happened next that focused the country's attention on Arizona.
Governor Fife Symington announced he was coming up with a slew of National Guardsman to open the park by force if necessary. Arnberger says he basically threatened to take over federal property.
"One of the last times that happened was the start of the civil war and a state making that kind of ridiculous claim. It caught everybody by surprise."
On the afternoon of November 16, the governor flew into the airport just south of the canyon. A convoy of national guardsman and state troopers joined him on the ground. Arnberger met the governor and invited him into the park.
"And the governor made a very direct comment. I'm not here to see the canyon. I'm here to take it over. I replied that a take-over would be illegal. He said "It may be illegal but who will sue us?"
Mark Shaffer, who covered the event for the Arizona Republic called it "a totally crazy situation."
"Governor Fife came up to the park," he recalls, and "was like beating on the gates there saying "Open these gates!". There were some rather bemused federal officials on the other side there checking it out."
.
.
.
The shut down only lasted a week, but was quickly followed by another that lasted a month. The second time, Arizona managed to keep some of the park open by loaning the federal government around a half million dollars.
"For us it was a very practical move to save the economy of N. Arizona and it worked. We were the only national park to open."
.
.
.
Arizona Senator John McCain testified that the government shut downs cost Arizona $400 million dollars in lost tourism revenues.
http://knau.org/post/last-government-shutdown-almost-closed-grand-canyon
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 10:01am PT
|
In the fall of 1995, I was working for National Biological Survey and living in the ranger cabins in Hawaii Volcanoes Nationals park.
During the shutdown, we were basically isolated in the park! We couldn’t use the government vehicles to get groceries because there was no active insurance during that time. So we played football on the lawn and hung out a lot, basically stuck. One guy shared a car with 3 other people not working there, and during the week I think we managed to make one grocery run in that private vehicle.
So I’m guessing they make some effort to get people out of the campgrounds when closing, but don’t kick residents out of the parks, and don’t force people out of the back country, but they will have kiosks closed. I doubt they would lock gates in case people inside wanted to get out, but maybe they would to prevent more people from coming in?
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 10:06am PT
|
nice to see trump has his priorities. he's going to mar a lago, again.
what a f*#ktard.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 11:23am PT
|
Da animals will be happy in Yose.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
|
Living and working in Yosemite, I enjoyed the park shut downs because I didn't need much and at the time my only outstanding bills were medical bills, so I got a mini vacation. I went backpacking and had the backcountry mostly to myself. it was wonderful. But I knew people who were hurt financially by the shutdowns. Most of them were good people.
|
|
cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
|
Back in '95/'96 I was at Red Rocks during the shutdown. We were camped at the old Oak Creek campground. The campground hosts received orders to kick everybody out. Instead, we got stay for free, a big middle finger to Uncle Sam for punishing park users.
The really funny thing is when National Forests "close". How do you close a forest? Pay rangers overtime to patrol the roads/trails and kick people out? But wait, I thought there was no money for staff...
It's just the gov't throwing a big tantrum and punishing the citizens to try to get back at the politicians, indirectly.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 02:05pm PT
|
LEO and required essential operating employees that work during a shutdown DO get paid.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 02:27pm PT
|
I'm Fed up!
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
|
So in previous *government shutdowns*, keeping the parks open was an option all along?
Why would previous administrations have closed the parks when they could have been kept open, except to abuse the citizens?
Especially if they are going to end up paying all the employees *back wages* for the days they were off?
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
|
"The parks will remain open... but employees WON'T get paid"...
I'm quite certain that "non-essential" Gov. employees don't get paid during a shutdown, they get paid retroactively.
Any talk about defaulting is fake news. The 14th amendment is clear on that matter. And taxes will continue to be collected, which is more than enough to service the debt. In any case it's unconstitutional to default no matter where the money comes from, even if the President has to raise the debt. ceiling without Congressional approval.
All in, about 15% of government services will shut down. SS checks will still go out. Medicare will stay in business, as will entitlements. And needless to say the IRS will roll on.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 04:27pm PT
|
So in previous *government shutdowns*, keeping the parks open was an option all along?
Why would previous administrations have closed the parks when they could have been kept open, except to abuse the citizens?
Especially if they are going to end up paying all the employees *back wages* for the days they were off?
The regulations that apply in such a shutdown, require that only "essential" and "emergency" services should remain acting.
Are the parks "essential"? Nope. Another example of the GOP ignoring the law for good publicity.
|
|
franky
Trad climber
Madison, WI
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
|
Everyone got paid during the last shutdown, even those who didn't work.
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
|
Only the gross materialists whine about shutdowns.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 05:07pm PT
|
Everyone got paid during the last shutdown, even those who didn't work.
Federal employees got paid. Concession employees did not.
|
|
StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
|
Congress should not get paid if the government has to shut down.
I don't mean delayed payment, I mean loss of wages.
|
|
Norton
climber
The Wastelands
|
|
Jan 19, 2018 - 05:26pm PT
|
Everyone got paid during the last shutdown, even those who didn't work.
during the last shutdown of some 17 days, only deemed "essential" Federal employees were paid during the 2013 shutdown
the other Federal employees (my next door neighbor) did not receive their normal paychecks until after the shutdown ended and congress quickly passed a law paying back pay for that period
the Federal government categorizes employees as exempt and non exempt for pay and benefit calculations
Late in the evening of October 16, 2013, Congress passed the Continuing Appropriations Act, 2014, and the President signed it shortly after midnight on October 17, ending the government shutdown and suspending the debt limit until February 7, 2014.[16] wiki
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|