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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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A question for Bruce (or anyone else who follows cycling/doping):
There have been more than a few comments in this thread about Chris Froome turning in performances on par with those of Lance Armstrong at his doped-up best. But, after he returned the adverse finding in the Vuelta, wouldn't he be in the sights of every doping official in the world? Wouldn't he be tested every time he turned around?
If that is true, he'd pretty much have to stop doping, and yet his performance hasn't dropped off. At least not if the Giro was any indication.
I don't have a clue about any of this myself, and have no idea whether he was doping or not. But I'm curious about how he is seemingly able to continue the extreme performance if they're testing him all the time.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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I think there are several factors.
The doping is done in cycles...nothing new on this front.
The doping is a generation ahead of current testing.
The doping promotes recovery over performance.
These factors make it very difficult to nab abusers during races.
They come to races in peak form AND fully rested/recovered.
They've already tweeked their bodies to run at a 'higher' state for a given time. Long after testing would condemn.
Just my speculation.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2018 - 08:21pm PT
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Ghost,
his performance in the Giro wasn't that great. He looked completely vulnerable during most of the race and was dropped numerous times. Also, it was a pretty weak field of rivals. And the stage that he won and took the pink was more due to race strategy(Dumoulin waited for others to get over the Finestre to help with the chase and they didn't get there until there was too big a gap and then they couldn't/wouldn't work) rather than Froome being that much stronger.
But, yes, I would say that Froome gets more random tests both in-competition and out-of-competition than before. It's too bad that the tests for the two most abused and effective drugs, EPO and testosterone, are so easy to foil.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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^^^^
Nice summary.
BTW..I'm not implying Froome is really cheating.
I'm a Froome fan. Hope he's playing it straight.
But I'm(for the sport) damaged goods..lol
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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I'm a Froome fan.
Not me. ABF(anybody but froome), but I am hoping Vincenzo ends up with the *Mellow Johnny* in Paris.
*Simplified for the texans amongst us.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2018 - 11:00pm PT
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One of the big problems with sports like professional cycling is that they are not very "strong" meaning that someone like Chris Froome can hire a bunch of high-priced lawyers and they can make a mockery of the system. Riders with less resources just have to suck it up and take it. That's not very fair.
It is not a coincidence that the strongest force in cycling, ASO which owns the Tour de France, was the one to stand up to Froome. They are not intimidated by Froome's lawyers. Hopefully, ASO's ban will hold up with the French Olympic Committee. We will know on Wednesday.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2018 - 04:42am PT
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The UCI has decided that Chris Froome's high salbutamol level did not constitute and Adverse Analytical Finding(AAF). He should now be cleared to ride the Tour de France.
Here's the press release from the UCI:
UCI statement on anti-doping proceedings involving Mr Christopher Froome The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) confirms that the anti-doping proceedings involving Mr Christopher Froome have now been closed.
On 20 September 2017, Mr Froome was notified that a sample collected during the Vuelta a España on 7 September 2017 was reported to contain a concentration of salbutamol in excess of 1000ng/ml.
The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) Prohibited List provides that inhaled salbutamol is permitted subject to a maximum dose of 1600 micrograms over 24 hours, not to exceed 800 micrograms every 12 hours (the permitted use), and that a concentration in excess of 1000 ng/ml is an abnormal finding which is presumed not to be the result of a permitted use. The WADA Prohibited List further provides that the athlete can establish that his/her abnormal result was the consequence of a permitted use, in which case it will not be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF).
The UCI instigated disciplinary proceedings in accordance with the UCI Anti-Doping Rules (ADR), during which Mr Froome exercised his right to prove that his abnormal result was the consequence of a permitted use. The proceedings started with an evidentiary phase, with the UCI and Mr Froome agreeing that the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal would decide whether certain information could be provided to Mr Froome in preparing his defence. The UCI already sought WADA’s advice at that stage, during which a significant number of expert and scientific reports were submitted on behalf of Mr Froome.
After the evidentiary phase, Mr Froome requested additional information from WADA about the salbutamol regime. Following receipt of information from WADA, Mr Froome then filed his explanation for the abnormal result on 4 June 2018, together with significant additional expert evidence. The UCI has considered all the relevant evidence in detail (in consultation with its own experts and experts from WADA). On 28 June 2018, WADA informed the UCI that it would accept, based on the specific facts of the case, that Mr Froome’s sample results do not constitute an AAF. In light of WADA’s unparalleled access to information and authorship of the salbutamol regime, the UCI has decided, based on WADA’s position, to close the proceedings against Mr Froome.
Whilst the UCI would have obviously preferred the proceedings to have been finalised earlier in the season, it had to ensure that Mr Froome had a fair process, as it would have done with any other rider, and that the correct decision was issued. Having received WADA’s position on 28 June 2018, the UCI prepared and issued its formal reasoned decision as quickly as possible in the circumstances.
The UCI understands that there will be significant discussion of this decision, but wishes to reassure all those involved in or interested in cycling that its decision is based on expert opinions, WADA’s advice, and a full assessment of the facts of the case. The UCI hopes that the cycling world can now turn its focus to, and enjoy, the upcoming races on the cycling calendar.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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This stinks of exactly the same sort of stuff that went on in the Armstrong era. Top rider on the most well-funded team is able get away with something that got other riders banned solely by having more money and lawyers.
And it's not at all suspicious that this only happened when ASO turned the screws.
If this is how it goes with the urine test for salubutamol, they might as well drop that test.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
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Thanks for the update Bruce.
Weird timing as well with just a few days out before the TDF. I guess they will be revising the test limits.
Lots of comments coming thick and fast over on cyclingnews.com!
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Trump
climber
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When they didn’t fail the tests we believed they weren’t cheaters, until upon closer examination, we learned that they were cheaters.
Now we believe that they’re cheaters when they pass the tests, and then when they fail the test, but upon closer examination are vindicated as not having failed the test, we believe, well, that they’re cheaters.
I think the bottom line is that we believe stuff. Might as well enjoy the race. I’ll be rooting for Froome.
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ManMountain
Mountain climber
San Diego
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I remember Bob Roll , with his toothy grin saying " this is how the Italians ride the Giro " as i towed him on his Mt. bike up the 4 mile climb to the start of a Mammoth NORBA race.. That was right before the police pulled us over administrating a stern lecture..
I know nothing about mountain biking but once gave a knackered biker a tow up a steep 4WD road with my Wrangler. I was scared to death he'd hit a rut and end up under a rear tire, but he reassured me everything was normal.
Question: Is it proper for the biker to hang on to the windowsill?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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It's proper only if you are italian...
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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In 1995, 5-time winner of the Tour de France, Miguel Indurain, and four of his teammates came to Colorado to train for the World Championships. One of the team riders was Andy Hampsten. Andy phoned and asked if I would come to Colorado for three weeks to look after Miguel since I knew both the roads and how to speak Spanish.
So we go out to do a training ride from Breckenridge up and over 11,500' Fremont Pass and out into South Park(yeah, that South Park). About two
miles below the top, at about 11,000', I get dropped(by a 5-time Tour winner, surprise, surprise). The team manager comes up to me in the follow car and tells me to grab the door handle. I comply and the next thing I know we are heading up the road at 40+mph with me in a stupor from the effort and the altitude hanging onto the car door for dear life.
I make it back up to the group, but that doesn't last long. The next time the manager in the car comes up I tell him to wait for me on top. Something about fool me once.....
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Yeah, I saw that one too Bruce, and was tempted to link, but you beat me to it.
The points made in there are pretty valid...the whole system is going to get thrown even further into doubt by this.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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And there was the Norwegian nordic racer lady that was banned from last winters olympics for using the inhaler too many times...The rulings seem very inconsistent...?
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
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We don't really know why WADA decided not to pursue the AAF but it was probably one of two things. Either they didn't think their Salbutamol test was accurate or the level they established for the AAF was too low.
In either case, this has been the WADA test and AAF level for a number of years and athletes have received bans and had their reputations potentially harmed because of it. For the WADA to do an abrupt "about face" is really puzzling unless they can cite some new evidence that brings their previous test/level into doubt.
Hopefully, WADA will be forthcoming with this information in a timely manner so we can all understand what their rationale was and not just continue to think that some is not right here.
Just to give this whole affair a bit of context with regards to other sports the gender question in athletics(AKA track and field) is undergoing the same sort of turmoil with a lot of unanswered questions.
Rottingjohnny,
Norwegian Skier Martin Sundby served a ban for Salbutamol. Therese Johaug was banned for another steroid, clostebol, which was supposedly in the sunburn cream for her lips.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Jul 30, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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Didn't want to post this on the "tour" thread, but talking with my husband, the subject of the drug Tramadol came up. Apparently it is still legal for pro cyclists, but will become illegal next year.
People think of tramadol as a pain killer, acting through an opioid receptor, but back when I used to have bad back pain issues, my doc prescribed it for me saying it was a good one because it also increases the levels of norepinephrine and serotonin. I loved it for long road trips, because you feel no pain and are happy and speedy at the same time.
I'm sure it would be very easy for a pro cyclist to justify Tramadol use, given the physical nature of their jobs. I'll bet it is a decent performance enhancer. Wonder how many pros currently use it?
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2018 - 04:06pm PT
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Phylp,
I don't know how many current pro teams use it, but former Team Sky rider, Michael Barry, said that tramadol was widely used by Team Sky when he was on the team(2010-2012). Given that it's use it still legal I would be willing to bet that it is used a lot by pro riders. It gave me restless leg syndrome and I couldn't get to sleep when I was prescribed it by a doctor.
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Trump
climber
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Jul 30, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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He’s just as fast as Lance was when the Texan was winning his grand tours and know we know one of the potential reasons why. It appears that cyclists, and athletes in general, still continue to come up with new and amazing ways to explain their use of PEDs Chris Froome has been beating all of Lances climbing times on the training climbs around Nice/Monte Carlo. If Lance was doped then......
So now that we learned that Froome didn’t fail the test, and we learned about all of the misinformation that we had been using to form our well reasoned beliefs, what amazing ways are we going to explain away our old faulty beliefs?
Are we going to believe about ourselves that maybe we’re full of self-confirming sh#t (myself included)? That’s not so appealing.
If Lance was doped and Froome beat him, are we going to believe that Froome was a better athlete than Lance? Or that they both followed a doping schedule designed to maximize their performances on their training rides? The performance enhancing effects of the salbutamol that Froome is using are stronger than the effects of the EPO and growth hormone and steroids that Armstrong used?
Or are we going to come up with some amazing new way to explain to ourselves that what we NOW believe really is the truth (just like we did when we were wrong)? I’m betting on the latter, and I’ll bet the athletes aren’t that different.
If you’re an athlete at the peak of your game you’re going to cheat by using drugs to maximize your performance. If you’re a journalist at the peak of your game you’re going to spread pseudo-scientific innuendo and controversy to maximize your performance. Works for the rest of us.
Decent performance enhancers that are legal?! That’s almost as bad as passing a drug test.
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