Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2017 - 02:41am PT
|
Asthma inhaler abuse in sports is nothing new. A bronchodilator, by definition, opens up the lungs so that more oxygen can be exchanged. The story with Froome is that he cross some arbitrary line, and used too much of the drug. Nominal use is OK, but excessive is not, apparently.
A few years ago, I was exposed to some moldy hay in a barn, and wound up with "Farmer's Lung" which was like asthma, but was not responsive to albuterol/salbutamol. In an effort to stop the bronchoconstriction, I would use the inhaler excessively, regardless of the fact that it didn't work. Later, I found out that I needed to see a doctor, and get a steroid shot and a cycle of prednisone.
Froome may have had a similar experience, wherein he excessively used the inhaler in an innocent attempt to gain relief from something that did not respond to salbutamol. It is almost an involuntary act to keep using the inhaler, even if you know it isn't working.
If I was Froome's lawyer, that's what I would say.
Albuterol/Salbutamol are prescription drugs, and in my experience don't have the same "kick" as OTC epinephrine.
Before there was a ban on the CFC propellant used for inhalers, epinephrine was available over-the-counter as Primatene and Bronchaid. Today, you can still get ephinephrine OTC as non-aerosol liquid for atomizers, and also in pill form.
Here is a little ditty I came up with for Tonya Harding. She famously was using her asthma inhaler A LOT during the notorious 1994 Winter Olympics when her goon squad clubbed Nancy Kerrigan on the knee.
Tonya's Silver Hammer
Tonya skates again,
Jacked-up on epinephrine.
Judges get annoyed.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2017 - 07:57am PT
|
I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. But then it does seem his doctor was a bit cavalier in his management although estimating dosage via inhaler seems an imperfect science.
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2017 - 11:28am PT
|
We should be banned from the Olympics now also.
|
|
BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2018 - 02:22am PT
|
Here's a credible rumour about Froome's proposed defense. He's going to say that his kidneys malfunctioned and instead or excreting Salbutamol they actually stored it and then released it all at one time!
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/chris-froome-kidney-dope-test/
It appears that cyclists, and athletes in general, still continue to come up with new and amazing ways to explain their use of PEDs.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 06:31am PT
|
Yeah or he could have inhaled moldy hay spores riding in Belgium...?
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 06:57am PT
|
"These aren't my pants"
-C. Froome
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 07:12am PT
|
I was reading about the Tour in the post-Armstrong era, and on one of the big classic climbs--maybe Ventoux--the winner's time would have placed him 40th in the peleton during an Armstrong race! Since then, speeds have been creeping back up. It's a totally corrupt sport, and it seems it always will be. Maybe it's time to just give up, make it a pharmacological free for all, and let the riders explode on the road.
BAd
|
|
BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2018 - 09:32am PT
|
With respect to climbing times on Mont Ventoux..... let's throw out 2016 when the roads were clogged with fans, but the time before that, Chris Froome's time compared very closely to Lance Armstrong's best time and both were raced under similar conditions.
Also, Chris Froome has been besting all of Lance's climbing times on the training climbs around Nice/Monte Carlo. If Lance was doped then.......
|
|
John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 09:48am PT
|
Bruce, Thanks for keeping us up to date and sharing your thoughts.
I thought the comments by Katy Compton's were an interesting viewpoint as well and they closely match my experience with a friend who has had asthma since childhood. We ride on a regular basis here in Colorado and he has some bad days and the inhaler helps but it doesn't help that much!
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 09:53am PT
|
I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.
And all this time I've thought of you as good old fashioned cynic!
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 10:04am PT
|
Sorry to disillusion you, Gary. I also believe in the little people and unicorns.
|
|
BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2018 - 11:39am PT
|
Katie Compton provides a very informative picture of how someone who actually has asthma deals with the condition.
Pro cyclists have been abusing Salbutamol for years. Once a rider gets a prescription for an inhaler he starts taking oral doses and using the inhaler to make it look like he isn't doing anything illegal.
People keep saying that at the level of an asthma medication there is no performance enhancing aspect, but at the level Froome tested at there is definitely a performance enhancing effect.
The way dope testing works is that the lab has the ability to test for hundreds of different illegal substances, but only run 3-5 tests on each sample. I had a long discussion at the 2009 Giro with then UCI president Pat McQuaid and he assured me that since an athlete doesn't know which tests are going to be run they don't take the chance of doing anything.
I disagree and think that some athletes roll the dice and hope that what they are taking won't be tested for on that particular day. I think this is what happened to Froome. He rolled the dice and lost.
Having said that, the editora at VeloNews told me that there are certain tests that do get run on every sample and Salbutamol is one of them. I contacted the US Anti-Doping Agency and asked for confirmation of that and they are working on getting me a reply. Hopefully, they can either confirm or deny that.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
|
I think I am, once again, disillusioned.
|
|
BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
|
I think what is really interesting here is that there appears to be some real arrogance from Team Sky regarding this matter. They just survived an investigation by UK Antidoping and also Parliment into Sir(!) Bradley Wiggins doping allegations.
They survived by basically stonewalling any request for information and also refused to allow their team doctors to provide direct testimony. Because doping isn't illegal in most countries there really isn't much you can do to make someone testify and/or give information if they don't want to. You can read more about that affair here(follow the links in the article).
http://sportsscientists.com/2018/01/team-sky-marginal-games/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FcJKs+%28The+Science+of+Sport%29
So, because they thumbed their noses at the authorities with the Wiggins affair they think they can do the same with the Froome case. It is time for these guys to get taken down a notch or two or three or four.
|
|
Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 02:11pm PT
|
Reilly a rube! Say it ain't so.
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
|
I think what is really interesting here is that there appears to be some real arrogance from Team Sky
not surprised at all, and it probably will only get worse. Isn't Sky going to be bought by Rupert Murdoch?
Also, Chris Froome has been besting all of Lance's climbing times on the training climbs around Nice/Monte Carlo.
why would Froome be doping on a training ride?
|
|
BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
|
Froome would be doping on a training ride because it is part of a training program. You get stronger if you can make your body and muscles work harder. EPO makes you work harder and Salbutamol, at the levels that were in Froome's urine, aid in muscle growth and recovery(so you can train just as hard or harder the next day).
There is a good reason why anti-doping authorities do both in-competition and out-of-competition drug testing. BTW, the drug panels they test for are different. There is undoubtedly some overlap, but they are not the same.
Murdoch already owned Sky, but the whole thing was recently bought by Disney.
|
|
phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
|
|
|
Jan 17, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
|
My husband thinks this was completely an accidental systemic dosing of someone who was trying to control their asthma in a critical performance situation using an inhaler. When using an inhaler, even if used correctly, a large proportion of the drug can get ingested and end up getting registered as systemic. He says no one would deliberately misuse salbuterol, it's not really performance enhancing. What you are trying to do is control your condition and win a race, trying to control your symptoms.
My husband is an expert on inhaled drugs, a former VP in a pharmaceutical company where he led a development organization on inhaled drugs.
But he's also a cyclist and a fan of Froome's, and maybe he hasn't looked at it as closely as you have Bruce. He doesn't follow the cycling mags too much.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!