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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2017 - 02:27pm PT
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Those guys and girls doing the Race Across America are dedicated. Not a lot of money or glory, but definitely a burly ride. They start here in Oceanside, always interesting to meet the riders around town the week before.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 22, 2017 - 04:57pm PT
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It's shocking how many athletes are doping - with approval.
Shocking is a description of our own state of mind - it's not a description of external reality. Reality just is.
When we think something is shocking, it's because it's different than we imagined it was. Shocking is a measure of our un-understanding of reality - it's a measure of how much new information we're gaining.
What we do with that information is up to us. If we want, or allow ourselves, to be shocked again in the future by the same or similar information ..
OK, then that's just information about us.
If you honestly believe that there's an objectively right morality and a wrong morality, and that morality isn't just a human invention that works to our advantage by making it easier for us all to work together and gain more for ourselves collectively than we would if we lived in a dog-eat-dog world ...
Ok, I think some folks would think that you're drinking some koolaid of your own.
Heros are heros because humans say that they're heros, because morality has been advantageous for us in our competition to survive. But that doesn't stop us from using circular logic to use heros as evidence that morality is an objectively good or necessary or intrinsic part of being human.
Morality is just another survival/thrival strategy that gives our group a competitive advantage over others.
But if we think that we can gain more by cheating, maybe don't be shocked that we humans do, even if the collateral damage is that you need to lower your opinion of yourself as one of those nasty human things.
In today's reality, 1 in 5 girls in the US is the victim of sexual abuse by the time she reaches 18. I don't expect humans' moral compass was much better back in the good old days of slavery.
Sure, Lance is a dick. That's maybe not as shocking as we'd like to believe it is, especially when we want to think of him as one of us.
And I do want to think of him, and all the other humans, as one of "us." The challenge, IMHO, is that we nasty human things didn't fall too far from the tree.
Truth, yea, very morally admirable, we humans are cool that way. Yea us! And our species, or our country (MAGA!), or our race, or our gender, or our tribe, or our family, or whatever definition of "us" morality works to our advantage in.
Sorry, but truth, IMHO, we can't handle the truth about us humans :-) We cheat, and lie to ourselves about what we humans are, and then believe our own lies, even if that means that we need to allow ourselves to be shocked and reshocked by the next tale of immoral human behavior.
Best to you anyway, human!
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 23, 2017 - 07:31am PT
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When "hero" is applied to any sports persona, I giggle.
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gunsmoke
Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Sep 23, 2017 - 01:52pm PT
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Pat Tillman made you giggle?
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Sep 23, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
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SomebodyAnybody
++++++
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 23, 2017 - 03:20pm PT
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Well Trump set the stage
++++++ for lying
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Sep 23, 2017 - 03:39pm PT
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^^^^^^
Like most taco threads.
Drifts from "any given subject" to Trump
Insane obsession
You can loosen-up those strings all by yourself Jim
Set yourself free
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 23, 2017 - 08:51pm PT
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drF ...Lighten up...I raced up Townes Pass out of Death Valley in a group with Pete Penseyres...Small guy that could go up hill fast...My zany team mate was reciting " what do battered women have in common" jokes to the group as we raced up hill...Pete's brother Jim could motor on a bicycle with only one leg...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 23, 2017 - 09:27pm PT
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Still haven't seen any credible evidence that LeMond doped.
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quartziteflight
climber
Who knows?
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Sep 24, 2017 - 05:14am PT
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Still a champion and winner in my book.
how many climbers used PED's? .
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 24, 2017 - 08:36am PT
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Brennan....Sociopathic contractor... LOL...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 24, 2017 - 08:41am PT
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That's a good idea for a new miniseries on the teevee...
"Tales of Destruction, the Sociopathic Contractor"
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Sep 24, 2017 - 09:30am PT
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When "hero" is applied to any sports persona, I giggle.
I agree.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Sep 24, 2017 - 10:23am PT
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When "hero" is applied to any sports persona, I giggle.
I agree.
+1
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 26, 2017 - 07:46pm PT
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Big breaking story on NCAA basketball players being paid to play! Can you believe it? Amateur athletes in a billion dollar industry cheating by being paid?!!
I just wanted to be the first to say that I am shocked, SHOCKED!, to learn about this.
Carry on, you righteous souls :-)
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Sep 27, 2017 - 11:58am PT
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Got all you cycling fans covered with someone 'doing it right' and free of drugs.....
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Three world UCI Road Racing Championships in a row!! Great show of respect between himself and Kristoff at the finish line.
Lance who?
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Sep 27, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
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Three world UCI Road Racing Championships in a row!! Great show of respect between himself and Kristoff at the finish line.
Great finish, and it was close.
It was nice of Peter to dedicate the race to Scarpelli.
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gunsmoke
Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Sep 27, 2017 - 12:32pm PT
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'doing it right' and free of drugs....
Isn't that exactly what was being said of Lance in 2001?
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Tony
Trad climber
Pt. Richmond, CA
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Sep 27, 2017 - 01:09pm PT
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I just watched this documentary: "Icarus"
It's a bit OT, but starts out with the filmmaker trying to emulate Lance in a amateur cycling event. He ends up stumbling into the middle of a much bigger scandal, with greater stakes.
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