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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 22, 2017 - 04:55am PT
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All I can say that matters is, if you think it's too loud, it is too loud and you should do your best to protect your hearing.
Hear hear!
(uggh)... ok... that was pretty bad...
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Keith Reed
climber
Johnson county TX
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Sep 22, 2017 - 06:15am PT
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Mr.Sanchez was deaf/mute and developmentally disabled.
I know i'm stereotyping but there was probably a lot of arm waving and uncontrolled vocalization on the victims part.
The hit and run involved an unspecified object. I'm guessing mailbox or sign. NOTHING worth a human life.
The police say they fired tasers and handguns at the same time.
(Some one is not following the escalation of force routine.)
Like public schools in OK or TX, you get the service you pay for.
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Nuglet
Trad climber
Orange Murica!
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Sep 22, 2017 - 08:27am PT
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Quote The other question is, who aspires to become a cop? And why?Here
the type of snowflake that can shoot a clearly disabled person and get away with it.
but cop brown nosers be like 'but he had a pipe' or a cell phone or a....
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 22, 2017 - 08:54am PT
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Although there have been a few clear video taped police murders and a whole ton of otherwise negligent manslaughter in the past few years we really don't know about this instance unless some footage crops up.
I've worked with cops, they come in all shapes, sizes, and temperaments.
Constant decision/firearm training under stress is key and something 9 out of 10 departments don't do since it's expensive and takes a huge amount of time. Even with training, what somebody will actually do in a real life situation under perceived imminent threat is largely unpredictable.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Sep 22, 2017 - 09:07am PT
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Constant decision/firearm training under stress is key and something 9 out of 10 departments don't do since it's expensive and takes a huge amount of time. Even with training, what somebody will actually do in a real life situation under perceived imminent threat is largely unpredictable.
Thing is though, training does make a difference and the more training you do the better. I know this from personal experience in emergency response (not cop training).
Also, there is this. #1 is de-escalation (which takes more training), and #2 15 ft is getting into taser country.
Basically we need to spend MORE on our police force including training. It's a dangerous job and they should be able to handle it. This stuff should be next to second nature for them otherwise they should not be in that position. The other thing training does is weed out more of the people you don't want (or should not be there) on the force.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2017 - 09:01pm PT
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hey there say, skcreidc...
as to this quote:
Basically we need to spend MORE on our police force including training. It's a dangerous job and they should be able to handle it. This stuff should be next to second nature for them otherwise they should not be in that position. The other thing training does is weed out more of the people you don't want (or should not be there) on the force.
yes, this would be best...
isn't it true, that emergency medic, and ?what? firemen?
various professions must pass rigorous test, etc... ?
i would think that weeding out, would be obvious, under
stressful testing?
i don't mean this nasty, just that it seems right now,
that 'second nature' is to 'direct hit' the target...
:(
wish their was a 'second nature' response for 'disable'????
SIDE NOTE:
jim, say, IF you really have a chance of LOSING all your hearing??
say, start some sign language, ... YOU WILL BE most glad for it later...
lovely language, and you can work with it, with those around you...
:)
happy good eve, to you...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sep 23, 2017 - 05:44am PT
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Bump.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Sep 23, 2017 - 09:54am PT
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"When Sanchez approached, the officers ordered him to drop the pipe and “get on the ground,” Mathews said. Sanchez allegedly did not follow their commands and continued to move towards them"
Why would one wield a weapon, in this case a piece of pipe, and advance on police officers? Sounds like either poor judgment or the guy wanted to die like the LGBT activist in Missouri last week.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Boise, ID
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Sep 23, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
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This is not new. There's us and them.
We're them.
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chimchim007
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Sep 23, 2017 - 09:35pm PT
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great topic
I hate to say it but all I see these days is people without disabilities loosing all humanity and becoming predator in the process.
All they have to do is follow the ten commandments... but they have been so poorly trained that they have no spines anymore.
Poorly trained and highly excitable police, even with the best of intentions, has a kill first reaction to nearly any situation.
NutAgain! - "I guess I'm ignorant about issues of law enforcement with deaf people, and can be a little sympathetic if you have two seconds to decide how to handle a perceived threat."
You give the police far too much credit. If you are not in uniform, you can be shot at any moment by a high strung, ill tempered, shallow-egoed chimp with a badge.
kingtut - "The reason half these pigs became LEOs is so they could justify shooting people of color."
Does it need repeating? Consider it done.
Tami - "
Why didn't the officer back off ?
What about de-escalation techniques before shooting yet another person dead?"
I'm telling you.
Humanity has been trained out of these failures.
They couldn't do anything productive and decided to leave their conscience in box safe at home.
They are not trained to back down.
They are trained to dominate any situation they happen to be in to a level they feel free to kill in.
neebee - "they could have waited, backed off...
but then-- ???"
Right
Then their only answer is to shoot from a snipers nest, maybe.
Like they do in the movies
Since cops are acting like they are the heroes in their very own home movies.
Jon Beck - "too many cowboys hiding behind badges, guns are the solution for everything.
Shoot first, question later.
You know the drill, officer wants to go home to his family, blah blah blah ad nauseum. "
same as before
It will never change
maybe we bring up another topic instead?
Some don't like this type of truth.
cragnshag - "My first recommendation to an individual who does not want to get shot by cops is to not threaten cops in any way, verbally, with a stick, a knife, a gun, etc."
Hey crazy people, just don't be crazy, for anyone else to see, specially snowflake cops, huh?
Hey, you with the disability, stop being disabled while a predator is in your vicinity, right?
Because all of the doctors know that all the mental disabilities are active only when police are least frightened or jumpy.
Mental disabilities used to be treated with decency and kindness
Reagan took away our hospitals where mentally disabled people got help without all the shootings, and homelessness.
" He may act irrationally out of fear and then you are dead."
We may never find a point where we treat people with disabilities with any dignity or respect, with a helpful mindset.
We will remain in this constant state of shame while we rid the earth of all hat are not just like us?
And Obey!
"That being said, many cops these days are wimps and are way too quick to shoot rather than risk even the slightest injury wrestling with some wacked-out guy with a stick."
You get some points back, you are not completely lost.
Come to god!
Speak Peace
"It is the weakling that hides behind the smoking gun. "
Another set of points back to you!
Moof - "Blue cowardice. Two officers "feared for their lives" cuz two armed officers with tazers could not handle a guy with a stick without resorting to deadly force.
Land of the chicken shits."
Full Agree
monolith - "They are trained to shoot to kill when they use their gun. They know no other way."
Full Agree
WBraun - "I'm legally deaf.
I depend 100% on lip reading and it's only as accurate as the person that is speaking makes it.
People like me have to be 100% on the defensive."
Living with a disability is bad enough
I have to fully submit to a coward that could never understand life of a disabled person.
Again, the disabled have to let go of any disability they may be experiencing when a badge, a gun and an ego appear from anywhere, any time, regardless of being legal or lawful, what the officer is doing.
And if you happen to have a learning disability, and have no idea what the law says or even means, I mean, you don't even work on that level that the officer is requiring you, the disabled person, to be.
I don't see how this is in any way Jesus Christ Like, At ALL?
But, we are just man, so its all ok.
See you on sunday for your confessionals
It's been a while I know
"His parents and guardians did not educate him in these simple facts."
Everybody but the queer who pulled the trigger, right?
As if the ADA means nothing having to do with how the state is to interact with people with disabilities
Or the accommodations that should be being made?
Hey, lets put a crazy person and a hyperactive-hyprtensive weaponized ego in a room together and see what happens?
Or on any street
thebravecowboy - "surely a beanbag round or other nonlethal means might have been employed."
But they are trained not to have humanity in mind from the start of their shift, so, good luck there.
neebee - "
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2017 - 10:15pm PT
hey there say, werner, so very very true, as to this:
His parents and guardians did not educate him in these simple facts.
Both sides of the coin should be whole and then everyone is safe .....
though, of course, no one EXPECTS this to happen, sadly... "
EXACTLY - How the f*#k do you train disabled people for encounters with police???
That is a freaky notion
"Now, listen, you may never have this happen to you, but you have to be prepared to give up all your rights to a screaming lunatic with a gun, no matter what world you may be experiencing at the moment the cop becomes aware of you!
Lets go over that training again next week, until you have learned to properly give away all your rights, because you really have none, until a cop say you do!
Regardless of any ideals we say we live by
Christian Values
Jesus Christ Our F*#king Lord Savior, huh?
Any of these cowards make to the gates, they are going to hell: Read and adhere to the big 10, that's all
But they have jobs to do on us, huh?
zBrown - "I don't know, but suspect he might have been.
The other question is, who aspires to become a cop? And why?"
Trained to kill first
madbolter1 - "The FACT is that the vast majority of LEOs are LESS likely to shoot a person of color than a white person."
Was this a black white thing?
Or was this a cop killing a person with disabilities?
I forget so quickly when these topics change around so often
Keith Reed - "Mr.Sanchez was deaf/mute and developmentally disabled."
We're going to make millions teaching all the developmentally disabled how to fear the police!
It's going to be great
Like self defense for the stupid, right?
Teach them how to submit in five easy classes with your final exam being a real life and death situation with a real cop who is really scared about an imaginary scary person.
Nuglet - "the type of snowflake that can shoot a clearly disabled person and get away with it."
or just be able to turn off the humanity part of their brains and get to the business of killing and keeping fearful civilians all around you.
fear - "Constant decision/firearm training under stress is key and something 9 out of 10 departments don't do since it's expensive and takes a huge amount of time. Even with training, what somebody will actually do in a real life situation under perceived imminent threat is largely unpredictable"
Training police to be unpredictable, that sounds about right.
Everything is taken on a case by case basis
Everything is different form the last
except when it is identical to all the others I've ever heard of
Threat
Fear
Cowardess Under Pressure (largely of their own imagining!)
skcreidc - " The other thing training does is weed out more of the people you don't want (or should not be there) on the force."
Police have a really low bar for hiring, and they don't seem to "weed" anything
Levy - "Why would one wield a weapon, in this case a piece of pipe, and advance on police officers? "
Do you know what it's like to suffer any mental impairments?
Lets first give you some anxiety, in full fear-mode, enter a twitchy cop with a gun and an itchy trigger finger
Only good things will happen in America
This is not to bag on anyone named above
This is just a reminder that people with disabilities used to be cared for
America, and America is no longer in the business of care
More police are killing
They are not trained to handle everything they can come across and react poorly at more and more instances of the slightest pressure.
Any of you suffer Bi-Polar disorder? Schizophrenia? Know anyone who does?
Are they free to live their lives anything like you and I, or should they live in fear always, on top of having to deal with having a disability?
I call it f*#king shameful!
F*#king Shameful Policing!
Are they free?
Can they live their lives?
What Would Jesus Do?
Police Failures Continue To Plague America Due To The Bully Mentality We Have Developed
People with disabilities need to learn how to get along with people without disabilities way better, because people without disabilities don't know no better, huh?
We came up with the ADA in 1990 to tell everyone Give Disabled People Some F*#king Respect.
Then in 2008 congress came back and said "No, Really! We Mean Be F*#king Nice To People With Disabilities!", and expanded on the already quite expansive ADA, to make it the ADAAA of 2008.
I've read plenty of the ADA and ADAAA of 2008 and see that "reasonable accommodations" are mentioned along with "auxiliary aids".
These things mean something, and the state should know better, but they don't, nobody has pointed out the errors they are making every day.
The state could implement mental health specialists instead of fidgety and frightened cowards with guns to "help".
They could implement Certified ADA Advocates to help in any situation.
They say that the courts are compelled to assist with accommodating people with disabilities when in court.
And it should be extended to the street to stop the flow of needless death to people with disabilities, or people without disabilities
Anyone suffering a good bought of depression can fall victim to confusion and over-reaction to a sudden catastrophic change in life story, brought on by a screaming lunatic with a gun.
But of course.
Someone needed to say "They had it coming!"
"How Stupid?"
I actually think I remember seeing someone say "Sounds like either poor judgment or the guy wanted to die like the LGBT activist in Missouri last week. "
So, we/they/people with disabilities should be confined? Confine themselves.
Or just kept away from police, right?
For their safety?
For cops safety?
Or we could take another look at the ADA and see what can be done to save a life that is not really threatening anyone, just needs meds and medical assistance.
Not punitive adjudication on the spot by a man lacking mental acuity for the task at hand: Dealing, Civilly With A Person With Disabilities?
Good Evening
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 23, 2017 - 09:53pm PT
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But you never explained how you would put handcuffs on a guy who's holding a pipe.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2017 - 01:41am PT
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hey there, say, chimchim007... thank you so much for sharing...
say, THAT is something, now, that was a good thing to bring up:
the ADA... say, when i 'interpreted' for deaf, once (just for training, but, i was too dyslexic to pass the test, so had to stop, at that point) (i was so glad to have had some time, though, doing that) WELL-- we shared that with the jobs that were thinking to HIRE the folks that we went to...
so now, you got me thinking--do the police, ever 'go over that' ...
wow... never thought about that, with the police situations :O
also, marlee matlin, is trying to reach out to deaf-community, to make sure they can be prepared to face danger with the police, but, as you said:
no one can teach developement-mental issues, in folks, to be
able to comprehend such confrontations...
it is terrible enough, as we have all seen, for the 'informed' ANYONE
to face them, :(
my friend in england, well, she has a son in law... his risk his life, everyday as a police, and-- he had no gun...
his family DOES worry about him, but-- he knows it is HIS JOB...
after i learned about that, years ago, and now, see more-and-more what happens in cases like deaf, mental issues, or, someone having seizure,
or, even drunk... it is a real SHAME that there are NO ANSWERS,
HERE, :(
:(
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Sep 24, 2017 - 09:30am PT
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This sh#t makes me so mad :( Blue is doing nothing to help their own cause. I would expect significant shakeups from how we currently understand the police force and the way they operate once president idiot cheeto is out of office.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 24, 2017 - 08:25pm PT
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There is no "police force"... You've got probably 20,000 different towns, states, municipalities, etc... You've got 20,000 different agency budgets, different politics, different populations committing different crimes.
Each has their own training (or lack thereof) regimen which is generally whittled down to the cheapest and most expedient possible solution.
The Orange clown has nothing to do with it.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2017 - 09:31pm PT
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hey there say, all...
HERE IS AN UPDATE...
i was wondering and hoping, if, or, what, the family could try to do???
and-- if it will help something change?
http://okcfox.com/news/local/family-of-magdiel-sanchez-calls-for-immediate-arrest-of-okcpd-officer
http://napavalleyregister.com/news/national/article_fb308d14-6498-5b44-afd9-7766d8d3a1e3.html
okalahoma association of the deaf, was mentioned, here"
http://www.greenevillesun.com/news/ap_state_news/activists-rally-over-fatal-police-shooting-of-deaf-man/article_7ae85246-3012-524a-be97-9201da01af54.html
STATEMENT from the family, as to their questions, etc:
(in case anyone wants to know, etc)
https://audismnegatsurdi.com/2017/09/24/media-alert-magdiel-sanchez-familys-initial-press-statement/
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Dec 13, 2017 - 07:16pm PT
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Just because Midwestern universities and colleges have been largely spared the left-wing violence that has marred campus events on the West and East coasts doesn’t mean the heartland is a safe space for conservative students.
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