sadly, most likely, we will NOT HEAR A STIR, over this :(

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neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 21, 2017 - 03:01am PT
hey there say... :( a deaf man was shot 5-6 times, and was then DEAD
at the scene...


not many 'advocates' to stop this sort of thing...

When Sanchez approached, the officers ordered him to drop the pipe and “get on the ground,” Mathews said. Sanchez allegedly did not follow their commands and continued to move towards them.

Hearing the commotion, witnesses began yelling at the cops, telling them about Sanchez’s hearing disability.

“He can’t hear you,” they shouted, per Mathews.

Neighbors told KOCO 5 News that Sanchez was deaf and nonverbal.

When Sanchez got within 15 feet of the officers, Barnes fired his gun and Lindsey deployed his Taser. Mathews said Barnes discharged his firearm more than once. A witness told AP she heard “five or six gunshots.”

Sanchez was later pronounced dead at the scene.

“They killed an innocent man,” neighbor Julio Rayos told KOCO. “He was never aggressive to nobody. He was a real nice guy. I don’t think he deserved to die like that.”


not many 'advocates' to stop this sort of thing...
for, these THREE non-race issues:

--deaf awareness...
--seizure statis situations...
--dementia fog...


https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-holding-stick-shot-dead-111503459.html


very awful...

sadly officers these days, SHOULD know this...

[Click to View YouTube Video]


[Click to View YouTube Video]


:(



if you WORK IN A public place that may need to deal with
serious issues that arise, as to communication,
it would be wise, if workers were at least
able to 'look for signs that someone is DEAF'...


OR, being in a state of 'seizure statis' and thus,
(keeping out of harms way, if you are not sure)-- evaluate
WHAT is really going on...


innocent folks should not be killed-off as imagined criminals, :(
in this 'day and age' of having preventative teaching, on hand...


:(



Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Sep 21, 2017 - 03:22am PT
Too true.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2017 - 03:34am PT
hey there say, patrick... i know... :(

it is awful... :(


:(


this gal, is trying to help the deaf...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

not many though, to help the folks with seizure-statis-possible situations...

:(
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Sep 21, 2017 - 08:07am PT
Thanks Neebee, this one did skim by with little mainstream attention.

Armed police officers have a huge responsibility and burden to protect us. We as a nation owe them the respect to give them thorough training so they can be the best they can be. And they owe us accountability for their actions when they fail to honor their training.

How can lethal force with a gun be authorized against a person armed with a pipe or stick or short-range weapon? Why isn't a taser enough?

I guess I'm ignorant about issues of law enforcement with deaf people, and can be a little sympathetic if you have two seconds to decide how to handle a perceived threat. I can imagine that in some fast scenarios, no amount of sensitivity/awareness training or protocols can avert an unfortunate decision of "it was him or me." But that space of unfortunate decisions can probably be shrunk dramatically.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2017 - 12:53pm PT
hey there say, tami...

yes, i wonder... why not back off... :(

folks were yelling that he could not hear... :(
and they knew where the person lived (where the truck was parked)

they could have waited, backed off...
but then-- ???



and, yes, good catch, tami, so true-- marlee's video was strong,
to the point, dealing with all she could get in there, in other
words:
DEADLY SERIOUS-- AS, -- if you make a wrong move, you may end up dead....
(though she did not SAY that 'word')
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 21, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
Why didn't the officer back off ?

too many cowboys hiding behind badges, guns are the solution for everything.

Shoot first, question later.

You know the drill, officer wants to go home to his family, blah blah blah ad nauseum.
cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Sep 21, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
My first recommendation to an individual who does not want to get shot by cops is to not threaten cops in any way, verbally, with a stick, a knife, a gun, etc. When you really think about it, no matter how upset or crazy you may be, there is no upside to threatening a cop. If you threaten a cop and that cop shoots you, I have no sympathy for you, regardless if the cop could have use non-lethal force first. Remember that cops are humans and are subject to emotion and fear. Don't assume that you can threaten a cop and he will be cool, calm, and collected. He may act irrationally out of fear and then you are dead.

That being said, many cops these days are wimps and are way too quick to shoot rather than risk even the slightest injury wrestling with some wacked-out guy with a stick. A brave cop (or cops) would try to overcome the guy with nightsticks and tasers first, using the gun only as a last resort. Why do cops even have nightsticks anymore if they don't use them? Or shoot the guy in the legs BEFORE shooting at the torso (yes I know they are not supposed to shoot at your legs, but a BRAVE cop would do that and face the penalty form the department, but get to have a clean conscience know he did the right thing and did not kill someone that did not need to be kilt).
cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Sep 21, 2017 - 03:02pm PT
too many cowboys hiding behind badges

On the contrary, a couple of true cowboys would have subdued the suspect with billy clubs and brute force. A couple of tough guys not afraid to get into a scrape.

It is the weakling that hides behind the smoking gun.
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Sep 21, 2017 - 06:18pm PT
Blue cowardice. Two officers "feared for their lives" cuz two armed officers with tazers could not handle a guy with a stick without resorting to deadly forc.

Land of the chicken shits.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Sep 21, 2017 - 09:17pm PT
Cragnshag,

According to the neighbors at the scene, this man never had any intent to threaten the police, as far as they were able to determine. If you read the article, you would see that he often carried the pipe to keep away stray dogs. He just happened to be carrying it when the police arrived. He had no history of violence, and being deaf, waves things around a lot more than people who can hear.

Would someone explain to me who is familiar with guns; is it that hard to shoot a guy in the leg or the knee? With prompt trauma care, such wounds will be non-lethal 99% of time, as opposed to a torso shot. If two cops have guns at 15 ft. can't they hit a leg?
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Sep 21, 2017 - 09:34pm PT
We are a violent nation, at war much of the time. It's part of the social atmosphere. One in five entering college students think it's OK to use violence to keep someone you don't agree with and consider a purveyor of hate speech from addressing a gathering.


. . . is it that hard to shoot a guy in the leg or the knee?

When I took a concealed weapon class over ten years ago the instructor advised if you have to shoot, shoot to kill. Then there is only one side of the story.
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 21, 2017 - 09:39pm PT
They are trained to shoot to kill when they use their gun. They know no other way.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 21, 2017 - 09:40pm PT
Would someone explain to me who is familiar with guns; is it that hard to shoot a guy in the leg or the knee? With prompt trauma care, such wounds will be non-lethal 99% of time, as opposed to a torso shot. If two cops have guns at 15 ft. can't they hit a leg?

Yes, it is that hard. The statistics on shootings are grim, let's look at some facts:

http://nation.time.com/2013/09/16/ready-fire-aim-the-science-behind-police-shooting-bystanders/

On Saturday night in New York City’s Times Square, police opened fire on a man who was walking erratically into oncoming traffic and, when approached by law enforcement, reached into his pocket as if he were grabbing a weapon. The officers fired three shots. One hit a 54-year-old woman in the knee and another grazed a 35-year-old woman’s buttocks. None hit the suspect, whom police subsequently subdued with a taser.

According to a 2008 RAND Corporation study evaluating the New York Police Department’s firearm training, between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate during gunfights was just 18 percent. When suspects did not return fire, police officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time.

http://www.forcescience.org/articles/naiveshooter.pdf

Abstract
This study aimed to examine the level of shooting accuracy demonstrated by law enforcement recruits upon
completion of their law enforcement firearms training in comparison with novice shooters.

One hundred and
ninety-five male and 52 female law enforcement recruits volunteered.

Participants were separated by firearms
experience into the following groups: expert (completed law enforcement firearms course, n = 83), intermediate
(recreational experience, n = 71) and novice (minimal/no experience, n = 93). All subjects were tested for accuracy
at target locations from 3 to 75 ft. **For all locations, no difference was found in accuracy between expert and
intermediate groups** (p > 0.30). Experts and intermediates had better results than novices on all locations (p < 0.05)
except from 3 to 15 ft. Alarmingly, experts were only 10% more accurate than novices between 3 and IS ft.

Finally,
novices and intermediate shooters were more likely to hit head locations from 3 ft (57%), whereas experts mainly
hit the body location (78%). The results of this study indicate that officers had no advantage over intermediate
shooters and a small advantage over novices.

A study of officer-involved shootings
in Philadelphia revealed that the average distance between
the suspect and officer during a shooting incident was a
mere 3.52 ft (White, 2006).

Additional research supports this lack of accuracy, indicating
that when police officers use deadly force, **more often
they miss the target than actually hit the target** (Matulia,
1985). Although hit rates across different police agencies
vary, officer hit rates often do not exceed 50% during
officer-involved shootings (Copay and Charles, 2001; Geller
and Scott, 1992). In a national survey completed by the
Dallas Police Department (1992), hit rates were recorded
as low as 25% in some locations.

A Hail of Bullets, a Heap of Uncertainty - The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/weekinreview/09baker.html?mcubz=3

Dec 9, 2007 - They shot and killed nine people that year. In all shootings — including those against people, animals and in suicides and other situations — New York City officers achieved a 34 percent accuracy rate (182 out of 540), and a 43 percent accuracy rate when the target ranged from zero to six feet away.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Sep 21, 2017 - 09:40pm PT
Dear Mr. Gill:

So true. If we use 2013 as an average, and add up the numbers, there have been, since the 9/11 Attack, about 210,000 homicides, 800,000 rapes, several million property crimes, and about 10 million aggravated assaults here in the U.S.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Sep 21, 2017 - 09:54pm PT
Dear Ken M.

Thank you for the information. My thighs are about 1/3 the width of my torso, so taken together, they are roughly 2/3 as much of a target as the torso, so it seems they could still aim lower. Then the accuracy would be a bit worse, but not that much worse than now. Plus, it's not about numbers, if aiming lower saves one life nationwide, that is incalculably valuable.
WBraun

climber
Sep 21, 2017 - 10:06pm PT
I'm legally deaf.

I depend 100% on lip reading and it's only as accurate as the person that is speaking makes it.

People like me have to be 100% on the defensive.

In situations like this, you have to stand down completely and let them take complete control.

Only then can you communicate safely as they automatically assume you CAN hear and they do not know you can't.

You don't approach police with a pipe in your hand or anything or movements that they can interpret as a threat.

His parents and guardians did not educate him in these simple facts.

Both sides of the coin should be whole and then everyone is safe .....

neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2017 - 10:12pm PT
hey there say,... oh my... at the end of this article, they mention that this same force? has a history of this?

http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2017/09/21/oklahoma-city-man-shot-and-killed-police-deaf/688213001/

Sanchez's death is the latest in a string of controversial killings by Oklahoma police in recent years. In 2015, a white Tulsa County reserve deputy fatally shot an unarmed black man who was on the ground being subdued. He said he meant to shoot the suspect with a stun gun but mistakenly used his firearm instead. He was sentenced to four years in prison.

In May, a white former Tulsa police officer, Betty Shelby, was acquitted in the 2016 killing of Terence Crutcher, an unarmed black man who had his hands up when she fired. Much like in the Sanchez killing, another officer almost simultaneously fired a Taser at Crutcher when Shelby fired her gun. Unlike Sanchez's killing, both Tulsa killings were captured on video.


also, the officer that killed this innocent man, was not the FIRST OFFICER that arrived there?
if i read right, so it seems...
shouldn't he have waited and let the first officer
handle it, and THEN work as back-up??


they need to practice how to handle something like this...
or, else, what? ... what else?:

could they just wait until SOMEONE show ups in body armor?
or--the back-up guy, so he are not harmed, and THUS can take down
the unarmed man, or, those with sticks, etc, and thus not have to
KILL anyone, while they try to keep from getting hurt?


THERE just MUST be a better way, :(

(i do understand so many honest officers are in danger of being killed
from traffic stops, :( and i know they risk their lives, and have helped folks, etc--

yet, these horrible CONFRONTATION maneuvers, of theirs (in this, and any post situations) are SERIOUSLY lacking...
you shouldn't be running around making mistakes, with a lethal weapon, :(

they need to have drills and aptitude tests, or something,
so they can understand and face these things... shouldn't they???

i am sorry, :(
i know many deaf, and folks with seizures, and this is just
sickening... :(
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 21, 2017 - 10:14pm PT
i don't think this is just about his deafness. no sane man approaches crazed LEs with a swinging pipe in hand


still it was at his home, with his father watching. surely a beanbag round or other nonlethal means might have been employed. but they with guns wirt scared and they shot lethal. at the dude's house.


thusly the dude ceases to abjde. sjng of the tjmes
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2017 - 10:15pm PT
hey there say, werner, so very very true, as to this:

His parents and guardians did not educate him in these simple facts.

Both sides of the coin should be whole and then everyone is safe .....

though, of course, no one EXPECTS this to happen, sadly...


yes, you are so right...
marlee matlin,
made that serious video, as to the very things you mentioned...

i pray and hope they find MORE ways to SHARE this video with DEAF in their
communities... for their families futures SAFETY...


zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 21, 2017 - 10:26pm PT
Would the hapless fellow had been shot if he didn't have the pipe?

I don't know, but suspect he might have been.


The other question is, who aspires to become a cop? And why?

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 22, 2017 - 12:43am PT
The reason half these pigs became LEOs is so they could justify shooting people of color. No more, no less.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27/this-study-found-race-matters-in-police-shootings-but-the-results-may-surprise-you/?utm_term=.76dd3ca471ea

The FACT is that the vast majority of LEOs are LESS likely to shoot a person of color than a white person. And that's with people of color committing proportionally more violent crimes than whites. So, people of color are proportionally MORE likely to be criminal suspects, yet they are LESS likely to get shot as a result of a police encounter.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 22, 2017 - 04:55am PT
All I can say that matters is, if you think it's too loud, it is too loud and you should do your best to protect your hearing.

Hear hear!

(uggh)... ok... that was pretty bad...
Keith Reed

climber
Johnson county TX
Sep 22, 2017 - 06:15am PT
Mr.Sanchez was deaf/mute and developmentally disabled.
I know i'm stereotyping but there was probably a lot of arm waving and uncontrolled vocalization on the victims part.
The hit and run involved an unspecified object. I'm guessing mailbox or sign. NOTHING worth a human life.
The police say they fired tasers and handguns at the same time.
(Some one is not following the escalation of force routine.)

Like public schools in OK or TX, you get the service you pay for.
Nuglet

Trad climber
Orange Murica!
Sep 22, 2017 - 08:27am PT
Quote The other question is, who aspires to become a cop? And why?Here

the type of snowflake that can shoot a clearly disabled person and get away with it.

but cop brown nosers be like 'but he had a pipe' or a cell phone or a....
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 22, 2017 - 08:54am PT
Although there have been a few clear video taped police murders and a whole ton of otherwise negligent manslaughter in the past few years we really don't know about this instance unless some footage crops up.

I've worked with cops, they come in all shapes, sizes, and temperaments.

Constant decision/firearm training under stress is key and something 9 out of 10 departments don't do since it's expensive and takes a huge amount of time. Even with training, what somebody will actually do in a real life situation under perceived imminent threat is largely unpredictable.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Sep 22, 2017 - 09:07am PT
Constant decision/firearm training under stress is key and something 9 out of 10 departments don't do since it's expensive and takes a huge amount of time. Even with training, what somebody will actually do in a real life situation under perceived imminent threat is largely unpredictable.

Thing is though, training does make a difference and the more training you do the better. I know this from personal experience in emergency response (not cop training).

Also, there is this. #1 is de-escalation (which takes more training), and #2 15 ft is getting into taser country.

Basically we need to spend MORE on our police force including training. It's a dangerous job and they should be able to handle it. This stuff should be next to second nature for them otherwise they should not be in that position. The other thing training does is weed out more of the people you don't want (or should not be there) on the force.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2017 - 09:01pm PT
hey there say, skcreidc...


as to this quote:

Basically we need to spend MORE on our police force including training. It's a dangerous job and they should be able to handle it. This stuff should be next to second nature for them otherwise they should not be in that position. The other thing training does is weed out more of the people you don't want (or should not be there) on the force.


yes, this would be best...

isn't it true, that emergency medic, and ?what? firemen?
various professions must pass rigorous test, etc... ?

i would think that weeding out, would be obvious, under
stressful testing?


i don't mean this nasty, just that it seems right now,
that 'second nature' is to 'direct hit' the target...

:(

wish their was a 'second nature' response for 'disable'????


SIDE NOTE:
jim, say, IF you really have a chance of LOSING all your hearing??
say, start some sign language, ... YOU WILL BE most glad for it later...


lovely language, and you can work with it, with those around you...
:)

happy good eve, to you...


mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 23, 2017 - 05:44am PT
Bump.
Levy

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 23, 2017 - 09:54am PT
"When Sanchez approached, the officers ordered him to drop the pipe and “get on the ground,” Mathews said. Sanchez allegedly did not follow their commands and continued to move towards them"

Why would one wield a weapon, in this case a piece of pipe, and advance on police officers? Sounds like either poor judgment or the guy wanted to die like the LGBT activist in Missouri last week.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID
Sep 23, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
This is not new. There's us and them.
We're them.
chimchim007

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Sep 23, 2017 - 09:35pm PT
great topic

I hate to say it but all I see these days is people without disabilities loosing all humanity and becoming predator in the process.

All they have to do is follow the ten commandments... but they have been so poorly trained that they have no spines anymore.

Poorly trained and highly excitable police, even with the best of intentions, has a kill first reaction to nearly any situation.


NutAgain! - "I guess I'm ignorant about issues of law enforcement with deaf people, and can be a little sympathetic if you have two seconds to decide how to handle a perceived threat."

You give the police far too much credit. If you are not in uniform, you can be shot at any moment by a high strung, ill tempered, shallow-egoed chimp with a badge.

kingtut - "The reason half these pigs became LEOs is so they could justify shooting people of color."

Does it need repeating? Consider it done.

Tami - "
Why didn't the officer back off ?

What about de-escalation techniques before shooting yet another person dead?"

I'm telling you.
Humanity has been trained out of these failures.
They couldn't do anything productive and decided to leave their conscience in box safe at home.
They are not trained to back down.
They are trained to dominate any situation they happen to be in to a level they feel free to kill in.

neebee - "they could have waited, backed off...
but then-- ???"

Right
Then their only answer is to shoot from a snipers nest, maybe.
Like they do in the movies
Since cops are acting like they are the heroes in their very own home movies.

Jon Beck - "too many cowboys hiding behind badges, guns are the solution for everything.

Shoot first, question later.

You know the drill, officer wants to go home to his family, blah blah blah ad nauseum. "

same as before
It will never change
maybe we bring up another topic instead?
Some don't like this type of truth.


cragnshag - "My first recommendation to an individual who does not want to get shot by cops is to not threaten cops in any way, verbally, with a stick, a knife, a gun, etc."

Hey crazy people, just don't be crazy, for anyone else to see, specially snowflake cops, huh?
Hey, you with the disability, stop being disabled while a predator is in your vicinity, right?

Because all of the doctors know that all the mental disabilities are active only when police are least frightened or jumpy.
Mental disabilities used to be treated with decency and kindness

Reagan took away our hospitals where mentally disabled people got help without all the shootings, and homelessness.

" He may act irrationally out of fear and then you are dead."

We may never find a point where we treat people with disabilities with any dignity or respect, with a helpful mindset.
We will remain in this constant state of shame while we rid the earth of all hat are not just like us?
And Obey!

"That being said, many cops these days are wimps and are way too quick to shoot rather than risk even the slightest injury wrestling with some wacked-out guy with a stick."

You get some points back, you are not completely lost.
Come to god!
Speak Peace

"It is the weakling that hides behind the smoking gun. "

Another set of points back to you!


Moof - "Blue cowardice. Two officers "feared for their lives" cuz two armed officers with tazers could not handle a guy with a stick without resorting to deadly force.

Land of the chicken shits."

Full Agree


monolith - "They are trained to shoot to kill when they use their gun. They know no other way."

Full Agree


WBraun - "I'm legally deaf.

I depend 100% on lip reading and it's only as accurate as the person that is speaking makes it.

People like me have to be 100% on the defensive."

Living with a disability is bad enough
I have to fully submit to a coward that could never understand life of a disabled person.

Again, the disabled have to let go of any disability they may be experiencing when a badge, a gun and an ego appear from anywhere, any time, regardless of being legal or lawful, what the officer is doing.
And if you happen to have a learning disability, and have no idea what the law says or even means, I mean, you don't even work on that level that the officer is requiring you, the disabled person, to be.

I don't see how this is in any way Jesus Christ Like, At ALL?
But, we are just man, so its all ok.
See you on sunday for your confessionals
It's been a while I know

"His parents and guardians did not educate him in these simple facts."

Everybody but the queer who pulled the trigger, right?
As if the ADA means nothing having to do with how the state is to interact with people with disabilities
Or the accommodations that should be being made?

Hey, lets put a crazy person and a hyperactive-hyprtensive weaponized ego in a room together and see what happens?
Or on any street


thebravecowboy - "surely a beanbag round or other nonlethal means might have been employed."

But they are trained not to have humanity in mind from the start of their shift, so, good luck there.

neebee - "
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2017 - 10:15pm PT
hey there say, werner, so very very true, as to this:

His parents and guardians did not educate him in these simple facts.

Both sides of the coin should be whole and then everyone is safe .....

though, of course, no one EXPECTS this to happen, sadly... "

EXACTLY - How the f*#k do you train disabled people for encounters with police???
That is a freaky notion
"Now, listen, you may never have this happen to you, but you have to be prepared to give up all your rights to a screaming lunatic with a gun, no matter what world you may be experiencing at the moment the cop becomes aware of you!
Lets go over that training again next week, until you have learned to properly give away all your rights, because you really have none, until a cop say you do!
Regardless of any ideals we say we live by
Christian Values
Jesus Christ Our F*#king Lord Savior, huh?
Any of these cowards make to the gates, they are going to hell: Read and adhere to the big 10, that's all
But they have jobs to do on us, huh?

zBrown - "I don't know, but suspect he might have been.


The other question is, who aspires to become a cop? And why?"

Trained to kill first


madbolter1 - "The FACT is that the vast majority of LEOs are LESS likely to shoot a person of color than a white person."


Was this a black white thing?
Or was this a cop killing a person with disabilities?
I forget so quickly when these topics change around so often


Keith Reed - "Mr.Sanchez was deaf/mute and developmentally disabled."

We're going to make millions teaching all the developmentally disabled how to fear the police!
It's going to be great
Like self defense for the stupid, right?
Teach them how to submit in five easy classes with your final exam being a real life and death situation with a real cop who is really scared about an imaginary scary person.


Nuglet - "the type of snowflake that can shoot a clearly disabled person and get away with it."

or just be able to turn off the humanity part of their brains and get to the business of killing and keeping fearful civilians all around you.


fear - "Constant decision/firearm training under stress is key and something 9 out of 10 departments don't do since it's expensive and takes a huge amount of time. Even with training, what somebody will actually do in a real life situation under perceived imminent threat is largely unpredictable"

Training police to be unpredictable, that sounds about right.
Everything is taken on a case by case basis
Everything is different form the last
except when it is identical to all the others I've ever heard of
Threat
Fear
Cowardess Under Pressure (largely of their own imagining!)


skcreidc - " The other thing training does is weed out more of the people you don't want (or should not be there) on the force."

Police have a really low bar for hiring, and they don't seem to "weed" anything


Levy - "Why would one wield a weapon, in this case a piece of pipe, and advance on police officers? "

Do you know what it's like to suffer any mental impairments?
Lets first give you some anxiety, in full fear-mode, enter a twitchy cop with a gun and an itchy trigger finger
Only good things will happen in America




This is not to bag on anyone named above

This is just a reminder that people with disabilities used to be cared for
America, and America is no longer in the business of care
More police are killing
They are not trained to handle everything they can come across and react poorly at more and more instances of the slightest pressure.


Any of you suffer Bi-Polar disorder? Schizophrenia? Know anyone who does?
Are they free to live their lives anything like you and I, or should they live in fear always, on top of having to deal with having a disability?
I call it f*#king shameful!
F*#king Shameful Policing!

Are they free?
Can they live their lives?
What Would Jesus Do?
Police Failures Continue To Plague America Due To The Bully Mentality We Have Developed
People with disabilities need to learn how to get along with people without disabilities way better, because people without disabilities don't know no better, huh?

We came up with the ADA in 1990 to tell everyone Give Disabled People Some F*#king Respect.
Then in 2008 congress came back and said "No, Really! We Mean Be F*#king Nice To People With Disabilities!", and expanded on the already quite expansive ADA, to make it the ADAAA of 2008.

I've read plenty of the ADA and ADAAA of 2008 and see that "reasonable accommodations" are mentioned along with "auxiliary aids".
These things mean something, and the state should know better, but they don't, nobody has pointed out the errors they are making every day.
The state could implement mental health specialists instead of fidgety and frightened cowards with guns to "help".
They could implement Certified ADA Advocates to help in any situation.
They say that the courts are compelled to assist with accommodating people with disabilities when in court.
And it should be extended to the street to stop the flow of needless death to people with disabilities, or people without disabilities

Anyone suffering a good bought of depression can fall victim to confusion and over-reaction to a sudden catastrophic change in life story, brought on by a screaming lunatic with a gun.

But of course.
Someone needed to say "They had it coming!"
"How Stupid?"
I actually think I remember seeing someone say "Sounds like either poor judgment or the guy wanted to die like the LGBT activist in Missouri last week. "

So, we/they/people with disabilities should be confined? Confine themselves.
Or just kept away from police, right?
For their safety?
For cops safety?


Or we could take another look at the ADA and see what can be done to save a life that is not really threatening anyone, just needs meds and medical assistance.
Not punitive adjudication on the spot by a man lacking mental acuity for the task at hand: Dealing, Civilly With A Person With Disabilities?


Good Evening

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 23, 2017 - 09:53pm PT
But you never explained how you would put handcuffs on a guy who's holding a pipe.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2017 - 01:41am PT
hey there, say, chimchim007... thank you so much for sharing...

say, THAT is something, now, that was a good thing to bring up:

the ADA... say, when i 'interpreted' for deaf, once (just for training, but, i was too dyslexic to pass the test, so had to stop, at that point) (i was so glad to have had some time, though, doing that) WELL-- we shared that with the jobs that were thinking to HIRE the folks that we went to...

so now, you got me thinking--do the police, ever 'go over that' ...
wow... never thought about that, with the police situations :O


also, marlee matlin, is trying to reach out to deaf-community, to make sure they can be prepared to face danger with the police, but, as you said:

no one can teach developement-mental issues, in folks, to be
able to comprehend such confrontations...
it is terrible enough, as we have all seen, for the 'informed' ANYONE
to face them, :(



my friend in england, well, she has a son in law... his risk his life, everyday as a police, and-- he had no gun...

his family DOES worry about him, but-- he knows it is HIS JOB...

after i learned about that, years ago, and now, see more-and-more what happens in cases like deaf, mental issues, or, someone having seizure,
or, even drunk... it is a real SHAME that there are NO ANSWERS,
HERE, :(



:(
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Sep 24, 2017 - 09:30am PT
This sh#t makes me so mad :( Blue is doing nothing to help their own cause. I would expect significant shakeups from how we currently understand the police force and the way they operate once president idiot cheeto is out of office.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 24, 2017 - 08:25pm PT
There is no "police force"... You've got probably 20,000 different towns, states, municipalities, etc... You've got 20,000 different agency budgets, different politics, different populations committing different crimes.

Each has their own training (or lack thereof) regimen which is generally whittled down to the cheapest and most expedient possible solution.

The Orange clown has nothing to do with it.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2017 - 09:31pm PT
hey there say, all...


HERE IS AN UPDATE...

i was wondering and hoping, if, or, what, the family could try to do???


and-- if it will help something change?

http://okcfox.com/news/local/family-of-magdiel-sanchez-calls-for-immediate-arrest-of-okcpd-officer


http://napavalleyregister.com/news/national/article_fb308d14-6498-5b44-afd9-7766d8d3a1e3.html


okalahoma association of the deaf, was mentioned, here"

http://www.greenevillesun.com/news/ap_state_news/activists-rally-over-fatal-police-shooting-of-deaf-man/article_7ae85246-3012-524a-be97-9201da01af54.html

STATEMENT from the family, as to their questions, etc:
(in case anyone wants to know, etc)


https://audismnegatsurdi.com/2017/09/24/media-alert-magdiel-sanchez-familys-initial-press-statement/
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 13, 2017 - 07:16pm PT
Just because Midwestern universities and colleges have been largely spared the left-wing violence that has marred campus events on the West and East coasts doesn’t mean the heartland is a safe space for conservative students.
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