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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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You're right, only noobs with their girlfriends simul rap
Umm honnold has not exactly been the best advocate of safe practices over the years....so your argument might be a bit weak
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2017 - 12:30pm PT
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A little more on the accident-
Apparently this was one of only a few multi pitch climbs they had done. Climbers "A"+"B" began their rap together and with only one knotted end on climber "B's" side. "A" got to intermediate anchors and clipped in and let go of his rope while "B" was still rapping looking for another, possibly lower anchor. Once the rope started feeding through at what was probably a rapid pace, "A" could not regain control and the rope pulled through his ATC and the rappel anchor.
None of this is confirmed and is all speculative information, but it sounds like the most likely scenario. This explanation clearly debunks my thought that a "loaded" ATC would not feed easily. Obviously it did.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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I've needed repeated wake ups in my time too. Luckily I've survived them all this far.
Amen good buddy.
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2017 - 12:36pm PT
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Guyman,
There were a total of 4 people on the climb (2 rope teams), so the other two were able to rap the route with the surviving climber. A military helicopter (Navy Whidbey?) did the recovery.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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goat.... thanks for the answer.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Simul rapping is like simul climbing. Only for the experienced and attentive and is inherently more dangerous than normal methods.
I almost always use an autoblock on my leg loop. Many people complain about the dangers or rapping but don't take this simple step to make it safer. Plus it has other benefits; can let go of the rope to untangle, remove pro, setup next anchor, take photo, most of the friction is provided by the cord instead of the skin of your hand so it's more comfortable.
When you are climbing the person controlling the rope is the belayer who is usually out of harms way just standing there. When rappelling the person controlling the rope is the person in action, who is more at risk of slipping and hitting their head, rockfall, etc. makes sense to back this person up even more so in a simul rap.
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Matt's
climber
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Umm honnold has not exactly been the best advocate of safe practices over the years....so your argument might be a bit weak
I was responding to a prior comment arguing that simul rapping was super slow and something only noobs do.
As others in this thread have mentioned, simul-rapping has its plusses and minuses when it comes to safety.
Having just returned from a climbing trip to france-- I was reminded how the vast majority of the people you see rappelling perform it with a prussik back-up (invariably with their belay device extended away from their belay loop). It is a stark contrast with how uncommonly I see rappel back-ups in my home climbing areas (california). I assume this is because the climbing education is much more uniform in europe-- people are actually taught climbing techniques, whereas in the US, the approach to climbing education is much more haphazard.
I guess my point is: rappel back-ups are important. If people achieve the back-up by simul-rapping with gri-gris, I would argue that this is a net improvement over single-rapping with no back-up at all.
matt
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WBraun
climber
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honnold has not exactly been the best advocate of safe practices over the years.
Thank god he exists for demonstrating against the modern sterile world of so many stoopid mundane robots .......
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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"I would argue that this is a net improvement over single-rapping with no back-up at all"
My guess is that if you started compiling stats you would not see this. Cavers burn in every now and then but not nearly the rate that climbers do. So my argument would be that the majority of climbers just 'get by' in the rapping arena.
Give all the climbers a rappel rack and watch the death rate go up.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I can see simul rapping if a storm or darkness is approaching and personal safety is at stake by taking longer than necessary, but at 9:15 in the morning on a clear, soon to be 85 degree day? Hmmm.
Sorry to be blunt, but I think this is a really dumb attitude.
You do not want your first simul rap to be in the semi-panic scenario of an approaching storm and/or darkness.
[To the extent that you can,] practice new techniques (and learn good habits) in good conditions before trying them in stressful situations.
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neverenough
Trad climber
Anacortes
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Simul rapping can save a lot of time--but you MUST be in sync w/your partner. Tried it for the first time several years ago on Squire Creek wall in Washington. These are long routes (up to 2000') and I did it with my friend Bill, with whom I have been climbing with for 35 years. We were definitely in sync and watching each other as we descended.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Climbing is cool,
falling to your death free soloing or wing suiting, well OK, they were pushing the envelope, living life to the fullest, up off the couch, we approve ...
free soloing Freerider is mega cool!
But simulrapping is stupid and crazy.
And they call me insane :-) Alrighty then kettle, aren't you all coppery and shiny?! No black to see here. At least not in ourselves.
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2017 - 11:18am PT
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I totally agree that I wouldn't simul rap without having tried and practiced it with a partner. Applying a technique or maneuver without practice can be deadly. Case in point- my daughter and I were rapping the Owen Spaulding listening to thunder rattle off Middle Teton. Had we had experience in doing it, perhaps simul rapping would have been the ideal technique to gain the upper saddle quicker and get out of harms way, however we didn't and instead I patiently waited to hear those lovely words "off rappel."
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
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I was simul rapping off of Castleton in the dark after a three day psychedelic fueled Furthur show when my hair got sucked into my belay device. Partner had a knife. Plus one for simul rapping. Minus one for extending the belay device off the belay loop.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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If you rap without a knot on the ends of the rope, you are asking for trouble.
We've seen so many deaths from this stuff. I can't believe that it is popular.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Putting a knot in the end of your rope doesn't necessarily help prevent accidents when simul-rapping. If the rappel is less than a rope length you coould still drop your partner a long ways and if it is the last rappel they might end up hitting the ground anyway(or a ledge if it isn't the last rappel).
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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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How bout we post a separate thread called "pros and cons of simul rappelling "
Show some fuking decency you armchair tards!
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Decency? Dude was pulling a high-G manuever and his partner dropped him into the void. Nothing decent about the whole c*#k up.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I was simul rapping off of Castleton in the dark after a three day psychedelic fueled Furthur show when my hair got sucked into my belay device. Partner had a knife. Plus one for simul rapping. Minus one for extending the belay device off the belay loop.
And minus ten for not having your own knife that is readily accessible when your hair/t-shirt/whatever gets caught in your device.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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^^^^^^....yep.
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