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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 1, 2017 - 01:49pm PT
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Another tragic accident occurred Monday when a 20YO Western Washington student fell to his death while descending "Sisyphus" on Goat Wall near Mazama. The climber was simul rappelling when he either came to the end of the rope or the rope became unsecured at the other end and ripped through the anchor. In either case the result was deadly.
I'm curious since I saw at least two parties doing this at COR a couple of weeks ago, is simul rappelling a thing now? I don't ever recall seeing it much in the valley or anywhere else in years past. While perhaps expeditious, it seems wrought with potential perils should any one variable come into play.
Regardless of the cause, my heart goes out to the young man's family and friends, very sad.
[url="http://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article153691649.htmlhttp://"]http://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article153691649.htmlhttp://[/url]
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, the goat... oh my... i hate these things-gone-wrong, when folks die while loving their climbs, :(
my condolences and prayers for his loved ones and friends, that must go on without him, :(
thank you for sharing, so we can at least help, in some way...
:(
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Contrary to popular opinion, simo rapping is not faster. If you can't get your rap device on the rope and down it in a minute or two, then you need to practice your changeovers, and rap with gloves. and that's no matter how many years you have been climbing.
Simo rapping is ridiculous thing to do most of the time. I see guy with their girlfriends doing it regularly, its become the cool thing to do.
Fyucking stupid.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Darwin in action
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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^^^
I know you're just joking but not cool.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Matt's nails it
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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With a gri gri its fairly safe.
With an atc if either un weights the rope without communicating to the partner it can be hard to control the slack.
Knots at the end of the lines are imperative.
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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^^^^^^
Matt's reply.
That was priceless!
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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I don't understand how it was not double fatality? There were scant details in the article. Was the second guy into to the lower anchor and then let go of his brake hand allowing the rope to go free, or did the lower guy rap off the end and not die? Usually simulrapping is mutually assured destruction (MAD) situation, but somehow not this one? Is there some scenario in which his partner did not kill him? I can't think of one. Again, maddeningly few details.
Regardless of the simulrap idiocy, it sounds like no knots in the ends of the rope.
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Matt's
climber
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Was the second guy into to the lower anchor and then let go of his brake hand allowing the rope to go free
I assume this is what happened, but who knows.
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Matt's
climber
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^^^^^^
Matt's reply.
That was priceless!
Thank you. I've simul-rapped off big things, with both climbers on grigris-- I can assure you that it is very fast. The biggest time savings come from having two pairs of hands able to tend to deal with the rope (eg undoing small tangles, putting rope in correct place).
Like everything in climbing, there is no "right" way to rappel-- you have to balance factors like speed, safety, efficiency, weight, simplicity, etc...
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Moof.... the climber who did not die was the first one to the anchor.
Sad.... My condolences to the fallen climbers Family and Friends.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Matts reply was worthless, not priceless. What Alex Honnold or Colin Haley do is generally not what the regular climbing population should be doing, and promoting it is as normal technique is extra stupid.
Alex and Colin solo things that most people would not climb with a rope. But hey, your stupid off the cuff remarks might just result in more fatalities.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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The friend reached solid ground (at the sixth pitch) first, which eliminated the counter-balance
huhhhhh????? sounds like the guy plain and simple dropped his partner.
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nathanael
climber
CA
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huhhhhh????? sounds like the guy plain and simple dropped his partner.
almost certainly, but it was probably deemed a bit harsh to print it as such in the paper
whether that is for the better or not could be up for debate
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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This sounds like a terrible incident and my heart goes out to those who grieve.
I'm 100% with Matt's. I don't see any difference between trusting someone to belay you properly (on TR or lead). I've mostly only simul-rapped off big formations and it sure can be nice to have your partner right there, as in, "man look how incredibly exposed we are now." Plus, it can be safer if you happen to have a 80 pound haul bag hanging between your legs. I'd much rather get hit by a football sized rock from 6 feet then 160 feet.
We trust our partners to build solid anchors, to thread the belay properly, and we trust them in all sorts of ways. I don't see why we can't walk down a huge wall side by side talking to each other (I see the anchor 20' down, watch for this loose rock, etc). Besides savings lots of time on many rappels there are other advantages which may make it the safest option.
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Matt Sarad
climber
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I simul rapped one time. A friend wanted to go climbing. 5.7 was perfect fir a beginner on a two pitch slab. He had never rappeled before. I got him set up and we descended slowly together. I told him if he let go we would both die, I knew both ends were equal and that they would reach the middle belay and the ground.
That was it.
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 05:10pm PT
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Am I missing something here? If they were both on ATC's wouldn't the weighted side always have "leverage" over the unweighted side. How could the climber who reached the anchors first unclip his rap rig with tension on the rope? Possible scenarios: 1) he was at the end of the rope and it passed through his device as he got to the anchors or 2) he was on a gri gri and simply released the loaded rope.
Either way, bad business.
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WBraun
climber
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Never did like simul rappeling.
Did it once but clipped my daisy to the other guy so we remained parallel and equal on the descent.
Mostly never did it because my rap line was always a 7mm line.
I've seen and bagged some simul accidents to know what you really look like at the base when things went completely wrong.
I don't get it as far as being faster.
Everyone I see was using those dumb ass ATC's and grigri to rappel.
They rappel like snails. I could rap 3 to 4 times faster than these snails.
But .... whatever .....
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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the albatross wrote:
> I'm 100% with Matt's.
I agree with Matt's last post, where he stated that the best technique depends on the situation.
(Personally I don't simulrap).
> I don't see any difference between trusting someone to belay you properly (on TR or lead).
There is a difference.
The difference is whether your weight is on the rope or not.
1. If you are climbing and being belayed, the situation is still under your control.
2. If you fall while climbing, that is equivalent to simulrappelling, because your risk is no longer under your control - it depends directly on what your partner does.
> I've mostly only simul-rapped off big formations and it sure can be nice to have your partner right there, as in, "man look how incredibly exposed we are now."
Sounds irrelevant (to risk).
> Plus, it can be safer if you happen to have a 80 pound haul bag hanging between your legs.
Sounds less safe to me. I.e. could increase the weight difference between the people.
Also if the person with the haulbag goes second, the partner at the lower anchor can help pull them over to the anchor.
> I'd much rather get hit by a football sized rock from 6 feet then 160 feet.
Usually any rocks get knocked off when the rope is pulled, not while you are going down the rope.
I believe some people do simulrapping because they are with a less experienced partner and want to keep a close watch on them.
(As a result, the less experienced partner might conclude that it is always a preferred method).
My preference with a less experienced partner is for them to connect to their ATC with a "guide sling",
where we both put the rope into our ATCs at the same time,
so I can inspect that before I head down first.
The "guide sling" provides slack between their harness and ATC,
so when I rap it does not push them into the rock at the upper anchor.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Thanks for the detailed breakdown of my post Clint.
I don't think anyone should simul-rap. Or climb rocks. Or rappel. These are dangerous activities which have real potential to seriously hurt or kill you.
For those of you willing to cheat death, there are some real advantages to simul-rapping in some circumstances, including being in close contact with your partner who is essentially belaying you (or lowering you) and less risk of rock fall injury when you both are dragging heavy bags between your legs down loose terrain. I've even held my partners brake rope with one hand while keeping my brake on, in order for him to more easily deal with a particularly nasty rope snag.
My sincere condolences to the friends and family of the persons in this tragic accident report.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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"Like everything in climbing, there is no "right" way to rappel-- you have to balance factors like speed, safety, efficiency, weight, simplicity, etc..."
Yeah there is. You have to live for it to count. I find that if I speed to the climb on the highway then I have time to slow down on the rappel.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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I've done a little simulrappingl. I've also been totally smoked by a simulrapping party while rapping conventionally with what I thought was great efficiency. So yeah, simulrapping is quite a bit faster if there are a lot of raps to do.
The only way I can understand the Goat Wall accident is that (1) there were no knots in rope ends and (2) the climber who arrived first somehow let the rope run completely through his device. If something like this happened, it is a pretty serious failure of technique, and I think there is a real question whether serious lapses in appropriate technique should be counted as an intrinsic danger of the practice.
So consider simulrapping in which the climbers either use a Grigri or an extended ATC with autoblock backup, and both strands have stopper knots at their ends. How much more dangerous than a regular rappel is this really?
We have to grant that the anchor loads are going to be at least doubled, but total anchor failure doesn't seem to be much of an issue. Still, if the anchor isn't solid beyond a shadow of a doubt, simulrapping is not a good choice.
Perhaps if a party member is using an ATC type plate, they may have a serious struggle controlling their descent on a single strand if they don't double or even triple the connecting carabiners to add extra friction.
It used to be de rigeur for the first person down to test whether the rappel ropes pull easily, and have the person back at the top rearrange the anchor situation if the ropes don't pull. Obviously, this ability is lost if both party members are simultaneously on rappel, but the reality of mostly established rap stations has meant that testing the pull has faded into obscurity, and anyway other common techniques also make pull testing impossible.
Beyond these three issues, I don't see much in a simulrap that is more dangerous than an ordinary rappel, which is also "safe" until you mess up basically the same standard precautions needed for simulrapping. I think what really makes simulrapping more scary is that your partner pays for your mistakes. (Yes, this is true of belaying too, but in degrees that are fatal only in the worst cases.)
I don't understand why the dictum that no one unweights their rappel until both descending climbers have arrived and are attached to the next anchor is something terribly hard to carry out or so subtle that someone might forget it. And yet accidents happen, and this, together with the failure to knot rope ends, seems to be the way they happen.
One of the things people who guide learn is that an inexperienced person can do anything, no matter how objectively illogical and no matter what instructions have been given. So although I understand the advantages of keeping an eye on an inexperienced rappeller by simulrapping with them, I think this is a really bad idea. Clint describes the "right" way in his post above.
On the plus side, having both climbers together on the rappel has a lot of advantages, mostly already described (minus the joint exercise in exposure appreciation). And anyone who has sat in the dark in bad weather waiting and waiting and waiting for that barely audible "off rappel" call knows how unpleasant it can be to be alone in such conditions.
The advantages are substantial enough to perhaps recommend simulrapping by two experienced climbers as a safer alternative, even when speed is not a critical concern.
Well, that's the logic as I see it. But I still rarely simulrap even with experienced partners, mostly out of what seems to be an irrational fear of a relatively unfamiliar procedure.
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 10:04pm PT
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Something other than simul rapping may have been a factor. According to published reports, the accident occurred at around 9:15 in the morning as the party was descending from it's high point 7 pitches up. Considering the approach is around 30-40 minutes to the base plus 600-700 feet of moderately difficult climbing, one must assume they started quite early with the intent of getting it done asap. Whether climbing as fast as possible to beat the heat, Memorial Day rush home, desire for a multi pitch day, or just trying to set a PR for that route, I'm under the impression that speed and as a result, haste, may have been the determining factor.
I can see simul rapping if a storm or darkness is approaching and personal safety is at stake by taking longer than necessary, but at 9:15 in the morning on a clear, soon to be 85 degree day? Hmmm.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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So simul rap contributed to the accident but super basic failure to put knot in end of rope was the cause of the accident.
Scared the crap out of myself doing that once and so far, only once. I didn't go off the end but it was some scary exposure and two unknotted ends dangling ten feet below me.
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WBraun
climber
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but super basic failure to put knot in end of rope was the cause of the accident.
Was NOT.
Cause started a long time before that of which,
no mortal can see that time ......
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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What Clint said! I would add that if both of you go down at the same time you can't test if the rope pulls.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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First person down ties in then pulls the ropes back and forth a very short distance through the anchors a few times, the partner sees this and knows he/she can leave the stance. Eliminates the need to yell and be heard 165 feet away.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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What rap setup do you use Werner? You mentioned that you didn't like ATC's
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WBraun
climber
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Figure 8 with added carabiner configurations if needed to easily control speed on long rappels, or smaller diameter ropes or with heavy loads.
Petzl stop for single line raps when rigging with heavy loads to be rappeled with up to 300 extra pounds.
ATC's are one trick ponies.
The figure of eight has far more uses and configurations beyond just for rappel use only.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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R.I.P to the peeps that lost there lifes, I have been simul rappin for years, still here.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Rappelling, and I have done thousands, many in adverse conditions, still gives me great pause. So many things can go wrong and the results of a single mistake are disastrous. Rappels are often done when conditions are bad, climbers are tired or everyone can see the barn door looming.
You can dissect different rappelling accidents all you want but, in the end, they almost all come down to human error.
When rappelling keep in mind the mantra......Eternal Vigilance.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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F*#k simulrapping
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Goat..... question.
How did the other folks in the party get down?
Full on SAR call out?
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Barbarian
climber
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The figure of eight has far more uses and configurations beyond just for rappel use only.
Still on my harness on every climb.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Bearbreeder's points are why I said that simulraps either should have an autoblock backup (if the device is an ATC) or use a Grigri. Then if one of the party arrives at the anchor and mindlessly lets go of the rope, it doesn't run through the device. And of course end knots are mandatory.
I agree, though, that going on standard rappel autopilot when simulrapping is likely cause bad things to happen. So if you are going to simulrap, what you want for a partner is someone you know to be attentive, which is not the same thing as "experienced."
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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My climbing partner nearly got the chop on a simul rap at the Pinnacles when her dumbass partner touched down and let go of the rope, too. I woulda jack slapped the stupid sonofabitch.
DMT
This is the issue with simulrapping.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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^^^
Just to add that it's very natural response to let go of/slacken the rope when you touch down on a ledge, as that's what you normally do when rapping one at a time.
When this mistake is made sumulrapping, a lot of rope can move quickly through the system due to the weight/downward momentum of the above climber suddenly offset by the below climber becoming unweighted from the rope and having to hold on to the brake hand a little harder.
Rope moves more quickly through the system the closer you are to ends of the ropes.
Knots. Vigilance.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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RIP to this brother, and condolences to those who love him. Man do I hate to read about things like this.
Re. The Debate:
What Clint said about control is the absolute, f*#k-everything-else, + indisputable bottom line. Who are you willing to give that control to? You'd better be airtight about that choice once you make it.
My climbing partner nearly got the chop on a simul rap at the Pinnacles when her dumbass partner touched down and let go of the rope, too. I woulda jack slapped the stupid sonofabitch.
DMT
Thing is, and this is said with respect and with a good feeling that your partner is alive - she may have needed a wakeup here too, bud. Who is the bigger dumbass, the dumbass, or the person who puts their life in a dumbass's hands? I know your partner is no dumbass, but man we all f up and it's our friends that have to straighten us out.
If you're experienced enough to even consider simul-rapping, ya gotta be experienced enough to judge who it's okay to simul rap with, and who hell no, you'd rather take your chances with the lightning. I can think of exactly one person on this blue + green Earth that I'd be willing to simul rap with.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite
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You're right, only noobs with their girlfriends simul rap
Umm honnold has not exactly been the best advocate of safe practices over the years....so your argument might be a bit weak
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2017 - 12:30pm PT
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A little more on the accident-
Apparently this was one of only a few multi pitch climbs they had done. Climbers "A"+"B" began their rap together and with only one knotted end on climber "B's" side. "A" got to intermediate anchors and clipped in and let go of his rope while "B" was still rapping looking for another, possibly lower anchor. Once the rope started feeding through at what was probably a rapid pace, "A" could not regain control and the rope pulled through his ATC and the rappel anchor.
None of this is confirmed and is all speculative information, but it sounds like the most likely scenario. This explanation clearly debunks my thought that a "loaded" ATC would not feed easily. Obviously it did.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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I've needed repeated wake ups in my time too. Luckily I've survived them all this far.
Amen good buddy.
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2017 - 12:36pm PT
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Guyman,
There were a total of 4 people on the climb (2 rope teams), so the other two were able to rap the route with the surviving climber. A military helicopter (Navy Whidbey?) did the recovery.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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goat.... thanks for the answer.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Simul rapping is like simul climbing. Only for the experienced and attentive and is inherently more dangerous than normal methods.
I almost always use an autoblock on my leg loop. Many people complain about the dangers or rapping but don't take this simple step to make it safer. Plus it has other benefits; can let go of the rope to untangle, remove pro, setup next anchor, take photo, most of the friction is provided by the cord instead of the skin of your hand so it's more comfortable.
When you are climbing the person controlling the rope is the belayer who is usually out of harms way just standing there. When rappelling the person controlling the rope is the person in action, who is more at risk of slipping and hitting their head, rockfall, etc. makes sense to back this person up even more so in a simul rap.
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Matt's
climber
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Umm honnold has not exactly been the best advocate of safe practices over the years....so your argument might be a bit weak
I was responding to a prior comment arguing that simul rapping was super slow and something only noobs do.
As others in this thread have mentioned, simul-rapping has its plusses and minuses when it comes to safety.
Having just returned from a climbing trip to france-- I was reminded how the vast majority of the people you see rappelling perform it with a prussik back-up (invariably with their belay device extended away from their belay loop). It is a stark contrast with how uncommonly I see rappel back-ups in my home climbing areas (california). I assume this is because the climbing education is much more uniform in europe-- people are actually taught climbing techniques, whereas in the US, the approach to climbing education is much more haphazard.
I guess my point is: rappel back-ups are important. If people achieve the back-up by simul-rapping with gri-gris, I would argue that this is a net improvement over single-rapping with no back-up at all.
matt
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WBraun
climber
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honnold has not exactly been the best advocate of safe practices over the years.
Thank god he exists for demonstrating against the modern sterile world of so many stoopid mundane robots .......
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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"I would argue that this is a net improvement over single-rapping with no back-up at all"
My guess is that if you started compiling stats you would not see this. Cavers burn in every now and then but not nearly the rate that climbers do. So my argument would be that the majority of climbers just 'get by' in the rapping arena.
Give all the climbers a rappel rack and watch the death rate go up.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I can see simul rapping if a storm or darkness is approaching and personal safety is at stake by taking longer than necessary, but at 9:15 in the morning on a clear, soon to be 85 degree day? Hmmm.
Sorry to be blunt, but I think this is a really dumb attitude.
You do not want your first simul rap to be in the semi-panic scenario of an approaching storm and/or darkness.
[To the extent that you can,] practice new techniques (and learn good habits) in good conditions before trying them in stressful situations.
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neverenough
Trad climber
Anacortes
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Simul rapping can save a lot of time--but you MUST be in sync w/your partner. Tried it for the first time several years ago on Squire Creek wall in Washington. These are long routes (up to 2000') and I did it with my friend Bill, with whom I have been climbing with for 35 years. We were definitely in sync and watching each other as we descended.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Climbing is cool,
falling to your death free soloing or wing suiting, well OK, they were pushing the envelope, living life to the fullest, up off the couch, we approve ...
free soloing Freerider is mega cool!
But simulrapping is stupid and crazy.
And they call me insane :-) Alrighty then kettle, aren't you all coppery and shiny?! No black to see here. At least not in ourselves.
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2017 - 11:18am PT
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I totally agree that I wouldn't simul rap without having tried and practiced it with a partner. Applying a technique or maneuver without practice can be deadly. Case in point- my daughter and I were rapping the Owen Spaulding listening to thunder rattle off Middle Teton. Had we had experience in doing it, perhaps simul rapping would have been the ideal technique to gain the upper saddle quicker and get out of harms way, however we didn't and instead I patiently waited to hear those lovely words "off rappel."
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
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I was simul rapping off of Castleton in the dark after a three day psychedelic fueled Furthur show when my hair got sucked into my belay device. Partner had a knife. Plus one for simul rapping. Minus one for extending the belay device off the belay loop.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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If you rap without a knot on the ends of the rope, you are asking for trouble.
We've seen so many deaths from this stuff. I can't believe that it is popular.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Putting a knot in the end of your rope doesn't necessarily help prevent accidents when simul-rapping. If the rappel is less than a rope length you coould still drop your partner a long ways and if it is the last rappel they might end up hitting the ground anyway(or a ledge if it isn't the last rappel).
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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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How bout we post a separate thread called "pros and cons of simul rappelling "
Show some fuking decency you armchair tards!
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Decency? Dude was pulling a high-G manuever and his partner dropped him into the void. Nothing decent about the whole c*#k up.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I was simul rapping off of Castleton in the dark after a three day psychedelic fueled Furthur show when my hair got sucked into my belay device. Partner had a knife. Plus one for simul rapping. Minus one for extending the belay device off the belay loop.
And minus ten for not having your own knife that is readily accessible when your hair/t-shirt/whatever gets caught in your device.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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^^^^^^....yep.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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caveat: I've never done it. I've never even considered it.
With simul rapping you have doubled the probability of human failure while on rappel. This in itself is cause for concern.
Communications between the persons may be enhanced, or not. Either way communication is more critical. I can see this being a major problem if the climbers haven't climbed together often or if one is not very experienced.
I'd have to be in a helluva hurry to try it. And that itself is a major contributor to accidents.
This is not to say I'd never do it but I'd need a very good reason.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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With simul rapping you have doubled the probability of human failure while on rappel...
I would say the risk doesn't go up in a linear fashion, but rather exponentially; so four times the probability of human failure.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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I've rapped off of stuff with lightening blasting all around, rapped all night in Patagonia, got off of something in the Karakoram, blah blah blah, all without ever having done a single simul rap. I just don't believe there is any justification for doing it. Maybe it's a nifty trick for totally dialed in partners but it certainly shouldn't be presented as any sort of mainstream or preferred method.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Mainstream or preferred method? You mean like the way Honnold got up El Cap? In the mainstream or preferred method of getting our kicks, and in the mainstream and preferred method of celebrating our mainstream and preferred heroes, we rock and mountain climbers might have a slightly warped sense of what is mainstream and preferred for humans. Sure, simul rappers probably have a warped sense of it too.
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PS in Portland
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Jun 13, 2017 - 05:56pm PT
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Matt and those of you who blithely agree that this is a case of "Darwin in Action",
I knew Shelby, and I know his climbing partner. Both were experienced, conscientious climbers and climbing team members. Both mentored younger climbers, and were well-loved by their peers. Both were serious students who were dedicated to environmental issues. They were shining examples of human potential, and if you had actually known them, you would have been proud to consider yourself a member of their community.
Accidents happen. You weren't there, so you really don't know why this one did, but it will haunt Shelby's climbing partner and his friends forever. Your words only dig the knife deeper.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jun 13, 2017 - 07:17pm PT
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I think everyones hearts go out to all involved in this. Sorry for the loss of your friend PS, and the lasting damage. I've seen my share of rapping accidents, and its why I feel so strongly against simul rapping for common usuage. The person that made the Darwin comment probably wasn't directing it at your friends, but more so at the whole simul rapping popularity lately, as was I.
Unfortunately, anyone one of us could have made the mistake your friend did with the rope getting away from him.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Jun 14, 2017 - 06:23am PT
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Yes, PS, we all feel this to some degree. He was a member of our tribe, and we ALL--if we're being honest--have been in situations where one more simple mistake would have meant the end. This is just really tragic. Maybe not the place for this, but the extra caution around simul-rapping is a good discussion to have. I think if Werner has gotten by without it, most of us can, too. As for me, I out-weigh my wife by about eighty pounds, so it ain't happin' with her!
RIP to a brother. There but for the grace of God go all of us.
BAd
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| Messages 1 - 67 of total 67 in this topic |
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