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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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May 11, 2017 - 09:12am PT
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. . . and I have his Scrambles Amongst the Alps
Whymper, Rich?
Oopsie. Right you are John.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 11, 2017 - 03:26pm PT
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Hey Steve,
Thanks for answering a question I have wondered about for years. No original bolts beyond Mammoth, eh? Any idea when and by whom the retro belay anchor bolts were added? I wonder how the FA'ists felt about this?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 11, 2017 - 05:24pm PT
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"It isn't getting to the top that counts. It's the way you do it." I wonder how many climbers over the history of the sport have made this comment or variations of it? If GWY did say it – and it’s very likely he did – he said it in a context somewhat different than that of the present day, or even the 1950s.
As a stalwart member of the elite and conservative Alpine Cub he endorsed the club’s attitude toward “gymnastic” climbers, calling them Chimney Sweeps. In his diary in 1955 he wrote: “I find very little contact now with the new ‘Greasy Pole’ school. They are so infernally dull”. Nevertheless, a few weeks later at an Alpine Cub dinner he was introduced to Joe Brown, and wrote: “That attractive phenomenon Joe Brown, the plumber and climber of Kangchenjunga”. (Joe told me several years ago he was a contractor and not a plumber, and didn’t like that characterization). The word “attractive” pops up frequently in Young’s writings with references to young men – he was bisexual.
The first climbing guides in the Late Victorian era offered no ratings of difficulty – adhering to GWY’s philosophy, the feeling being that to do so detracts from the essence of the climb. He wrote: “I held and still hold such lists [difficulty] are pernicious. They can rarely be true for more than a single climber. . . They put a premium on ‘stunting’ and competitive climbing”.
As for pitons and the like, he says: “In ascending a peg is no protection to a leader, although its insertion may tempt him perilously to go beyond what he should.” But then he admits: “A peg is really only ‘sound’, in ascending or traversing, if the rope over it is being ‘played’ by a human being”. He admits that in the Eastern Alps a different tradition was being established.
He rather likes bouldering and describes his introduction to modern balance climbing while watching Eckenstein on his eponymous boulder in Wales, as his friend stood poised on small toeholds on a slabby face, merely touching the rock with his fingertips. Young describes his sense of wonder as he passes his hands between Oscar’s and the rock. (Before then climbers usually ascended slabs while pressing their bodies against the rock, hoping tweed jackets and buttons would work to their advantage.)
So, when Royal quoted GWY we understand the comment in our own terms and perhaps not in Young’s perspective. I will be interested if the source of the statement can be identified, particularly the time period.
You will likely get an answer from this crowd...few of them climb but most read about it
Not many read climbing history beyond Yosemite in the 1950s I suspect. It's unfortunate Kerwin (KLK) has deserted the forum. His professional expertise would be invaluable in these historical threads.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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May 12, 2017 - 01:39am PT
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I haven't seen that quote attribute to him. I am currently researching GWY, my club the Northumbrian Mountaineering Club has it's 75 anniversary in a couple of years and we are publishing a book that will celebrate climbing in the County.
From @ 1900 GWY was a key participant and influence here, much of what happened revolved around him, and his coterie of climbing partners and acquaintances. He and they were all remarkable individuals. Young himself was an extremely complex person...... But had a huge influence on British climbing up and into the post war period. An innovative educator he was also involved in bringing 'Outdoor Adventure' into education, and played an important part in establishing Gordonstoun school and the principles of the Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme which survive to this day.
Later in life he lived a short distance from my village in a 'grace and favour' cottage provided by the Trevelyans.
If I do find it I'll let you know.
Steve
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2017 - 12:03pm PT
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Royal gives Young credit for the quote as "dictum" in a fine biographical piece that he wrote which can easily be found on the frostwork.com website. As much fun as it to go through Young's writing, I am busy trying to layout the Frost biography and need to cut to the chase.
John- I assume that interesting material surrounds the quote in question which is even more reason to find the original citation.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 12, 2017 - 12:16pm PT
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^^^ Please provide a link, Steve. I can't pull it up.
OK, found it. Frostworksclimbing.com
Nothing about the reference. Maybe it will turn up, but GWY was prolific and he wrote and wrote and wrote . . .
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2017 - 01:51pm PT
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Qualitative experiential bump...
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 20, 2017 - 06:57pm PT
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I'll be surprised if anyone finds the quote. The resources of the Alpine Club might be useful. The thought is so widely held these days it could have come from anywhere. Looking at the weird bouldering the Brits were doing in the late 1800s (e.g., the upside down ascent on the Y-boulder) it could even have arisen there.
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