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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 28, 2017 - 04:14pm PT
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Geoffrey Winthrop Young is credited by Royal Robbins for saying the following "It isn't getting to the top that counts. It's the way you do it."
This single quote became the credo of many during the Golden Age in California climbing.
Does anyone know the citation for this quote in Young's writing?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 28, 2017 - 04:41pm PT
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You will likely get an answer from this crowd...few of them climb but most read about it.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2017 - 04:54pm PT
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Hey Jim- Send me your current email address if you would as the last one I have bounced back. scgrossman@msn.com
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2017 - 04:01pm PT
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Quote Bump...
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Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
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Steve - I will look into that quote. I can say that Ullman's "It is not the summit that matters, but the fight for the summit; not the victory, but the game itself." seems to tie into the concept... I have that Ullman book here in Moab but the Winthrop-Young one is in Modesto. I'll check it out next time I'm there!
I have what appears to be a speech outline that Dad did on Climbing Writers pre-1960 here, in which he references Ullman, Muir, Clarence King, Bolton Brown, Miriam Underhill, Bradford Washburn, and others. It appears this was for a literary "festival" at Nick Clinch's home, not sure of the date? Guessing in the 90's...?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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If needed, I can ask his grandson. Who, oddly enough, has almost the same name. He gave a talk at UBC about Vikings, as he's a professor there.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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The way we do it is with Gatoritas.
Note big wall stemware with salted rims.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 10, 2017 - 09:37am PT
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PtPP...... wow you guys sure do go deluxe, four star. Harding would be very proud and envious.
I was on another web site, declaring my dislike for chipping and the like... I said "my moma raised me to have some class and to climb with style, and not to chip and rape the stone"
I really should have said....."Royal raised me to have some class and.... "
Because he did.
Thank you Royal for the lessons.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 10, 2017 - 09:54am PT
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When I was a new climber, I read all of the stories of Royal and Warren. The rivalry, the attitudes and so on. I always saw Royal as wearing the white hat, and Warren wearing the black hat. I really did see them as black and white, the hero and the villain.
It is interesting to see how history has played out. While Royal has still maintained his hero status, Warren turned into something of an anti-hero, the kind of person that dirtbags love and respect. I never used to be a dirtbag, but life has a way of happening that you can never imagine, and thirty years later you find yourself looking through the other side of the lens. It's an amusing paradox, for sure.
I never did get the opportunity to meet Warren, but I enjoyed a night at the campfire with Don Lauria, and we spoke of the WOEML chopping a bit. It was the night after the Camp 4 celebration in 1999, and Jon Fox had led the final A4 pitch of Jolly Roger through the night, so that we could get down in time to see the show. We got down all right, but thought the show was up at Tamarack Flat. We got up there, and the place was deserted. Meanwhile the show took place in the Lodge amphitheatre. DUH!
What I remember folks saying afterwards is that all the old guard climbers - like Royal - were received with warm applause. But when Warren Harding took the stage, the place erupted! That always stuck with me.
Cheers, Warren. I bailed from your route last fall. Yet again. Sheesh.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 10, 2017 - 10:17am PT
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Yes it is IS good to look back and see things through the lens of time.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 10, 2017 - 12:46pm PT
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Everyone can look back.
The question is, do you see things differently?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 10, 2017 - 02:41pm PT
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The question is, do you see things differently?
Of course you do, particularly if you haven't actually lived those long-ago moments. On the other hand I can recall my feelings about climbing in the early 1950s, the excitement of the initial outings, the aura of adventure and exploration when there were relatively few climbers, the very newness and mystery of the sport in the South where I lived.
But when I read of exploits in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and try to place myself there in my imagination, I know that I'm missing the gestalt of the era and my efforts are inadequate.
I have Mountain Craft (1920), edited by GWY, with several chapters written by him, and I do recall reading some other of his works ten years or so ago. What stands out regarding the putative quote of this thread is his disdain for any sort of artificial climbing, his reluctance to advocate for "pegs" (pitons), and his reliance on his own body and spirit, his vivacity, to overcome technical difficulties. In this regard he possibly channeled the attitudes of the elite members of the very elite Alpine Club of which he was a kind of celebrity.
He lost a leg in WWI, but recovered and continued climbing.
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Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
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May 10, 2017 - 04:06pm PT
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Mighty Hiker, would love to know the date and/or specifics of the literary event. I can ask Fitschen also as it appears he did a presentation as well on climbing writers post 1960's at same time.....
Pete, trust me, Dad was no saint ;) ...he may have had a different overall approach to life (manifested in climbing ethics) than Warren, but they weren't arch enemies. The "rivalry" as depicted in the press and Valley Uprising was hardly as noteworthy as it's been chalked up to be (pun intended).
libations, late nights, and some debauchery were part of all climbing culture back then - it is more a matter of the extent to which that defined each person on a larger life-scale, in my opinion.....
Cheers ;)
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 10, 2017 - 04:38pm PT
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You will likely get an answer from this crowd...few of them climb but most read about it.
Thanks for stopping by to pee in the punchbowl!
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Chris Jones
Social climber
Glen Ellen, CA
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May 10, 2017 - 04:42pm PT
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Tamara: My recollection is that Royal and Joe Fitschen gave this presentation in the UK. It may have been at the Kendal Climber's Festival, or at Terry Gifford's Bretton Hall climbing writing event.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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May 10, 2017 - 05:06pm PT
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I'm one of the folks who read stuff, and I have his Scrambles Amongst the Alps. I don't recall that remark about "fair means," but I guess it could be there...he certainly would have been against pitons in British rock.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 10, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
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libations, late nights, and some debauchery were part of all climbing culture back then - it is more a matter of the extent to which that defined each person on a larger life-scale, in my opinion.....
some things never change.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 10, 2017 - 06:37pm PT
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. . . and I have his Scrambles Amongst the Alps
Whymper, Rich?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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May 10, 2017 - 11:48pm PT
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"some things never change."
I sure hope not!
Nice to hear from you, Tamara. The night your dad and Tom Frost were talking about the 50th anniversary of Salathe Wall, I really wanted to ask them a question, but never got the chance as so many others had so many questions.
If I recall correctly, Salathe Wall was climbed with something like only 13 bolts.
I know that those guys were smart enough not to haul the first ten pitches we now call Free Blast, but instead hauled straight up the blank wall to the base of the Heart. Nowadays, there are fixed ropes there in between bolted anchors. The wall is pretty blank there, and there are not many places if any for natural piton anchors.
So I wonder:
 did these guys have any rebelays between the ground and the base of the Heart? It is hard to imagine prusiking 800' in one go!
did the rebelays consist of bolts, or natural gear?
if there were bolts, were these included in the original count of 13?
Cheers, eh?
Pete
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2017 - 09:01am PT
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Serious thread drift...
Pete- Royal, Chuck and Tom established the fixed ropes leading down from the Heart recess without placing any bolts so obviously they took a different line than is currently used in order to take advantage of anchor availability. In order to be able to haul they fixed the lines station to station.
The original 13 bolts were all used to connect the crack systems in the middle section of what we now call the Free Blast.
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