US national policy issues looming after healthcare?

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Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Jan 12, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
Trump is terrible; Pence would be worse. Trump's behaviour is unacceptable, and distracts people from the damage that he and his enablers are doing, largely out of sight. These are the people who want to shrink the government, so they can drown it in a bathtub. But Trump is still less effective at doing so than would be Pence, who is ideologically far to the right.

Unfit though he is, it's in everyone's interests that Trump remain in office, preferably as a lame duck, until at least the election later this year. Overall, it will lead to less damage.

Mueller seems likely to recommend charges against at least some of Trump's inner circle/relatives, whether for perjury, income tax evasion, money laundering, obstruction of justice, or treason. The Republicans, putting party ahead of country (unlike in 1974), will do as little as they can to bring Trump to justice, or put a leash on him. (Whether there are any viable charges against Pence being an interesting question.) Although many Republican politicians are increasingly seeing Trump as a liability.

The November election will change things, if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress. Should they win the house, an immediate motion to impeach seems a certainty. Whether there'd be strong enough grounds to get a 2/3 majority in the senate being the issue. It's possible that the Republicans would at that point cut their losses and cut Trump - if he didn't first resign out of pique.

A Trump impeached if not convicted late in 2018 or early in 2019, and one or both houses in Democratic hands, would limit damage until 2020. Successfully impeaching Trump would bring in Pence, who even facing congressional opposition would create a lot of problems in a year or two.

A wild card would be if Trump developed health problems, which given his age and lifestyle is not unlikely. Whether the cabinet would have the moral fortitude to invoke the 25th amendment being the question then. They seem unlikely to do so based on his mental condition.

The Chinese and Russians must be laughing robustly.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jan 12, 2018 - 05:47pm PT
Liberal masturbation fantasies require counseling.

I recommend "Madame Secretary" or reruns of "The West Wing."
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 13, 2018 - 06:15am PT
Jon Beck a tip of the hat to you Bubblers down there for showing Issa the door. That is super encouraging for the mid-term election cycle. Now if we can only unseat McClintock...
DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 13, 2018 - 06:18am PT
I don't think President Trump has an ounce of loyalty to the republican leadership. If the democrats take back the house in the mid-terms I think you will see some compromise legislation pass. And getting that snake Paul Ryan out of the speaker role should be priority one for mid-terms.

And don't get me started on McConnell.

DMT
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 13, 2018 - 07:57am PT
Trump is terrible; Pence would be worse. Trump's behaviour is unacceptable, and distracts people from the damage that he and his enablers are doing, largely out of sight. These are the people who want to shrink the government, so they can drown it in a bathtub. But Trump is still less effective at doing so than would be Pence, who is ideologically far to the right.

Spot on.
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Jan 13, 2018 - 10:30am PT
https://theintercept.com/2018/01/12/the-same-democrats-who-denounce-trump-as-a-lawless-treasonous-authoritarian-just-voted-to-give-him-vast-warrantless-spying-powers/
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2018 - 11:27am PT
DMT, interesting you bring up McClintock---previously untouchable. Perhaps not so this time.

I like Jessica Morse, a dem running against him this time.

10 years of experience as a National Security Strategist, a lifelong resident of the foothills.

An Outdoors Woman: Jessica grew up hiking, fishing, and hunting with her family throughout Northern California. An avid backpacker, Jessica has hiked the entire length of Californiaís 4th district - 500 miles of the Pacific Crest Trail from North of Tahoe to Mt. Whitney.

My former business partner was the guy who took over McClintock's Assembly seat when he retired, and I've always thought of McC as a pretty sleazy guy.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2018 - 11:33am PT
I received a pre-publication
copy of Peter Diamondís* latest paper.

And what are we to think of what Diamond says? On June 6, 2011 he withdrew his nomination to serve on the Federal Reserve's board of governors, citing intractable Republican opposition for 14 months.

So Republicans---that's YOU---reject his expertise. And now you want everyone to pay attention?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 13, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
Ken,
You are cordially invited to join my StuporTopo Reading Comprehension Class.
You'll be in good company so don't feel special. In the interest of
being more PC I have thought about naming it the Crankloon Faulty Assumption
Challenged Group but that doesn't roll off the tongue as easily. Perhaps I
should also start a group called Let's Label Everyone Rather Than Address
the Issues but that is also not very poetic. But I digress.

I'm not sure it is OK for me to post a few of the tidbits from said paper
but I will, even at the risk of being labeled overly non-partisan.

First, the bad news. Social Security will hit the wall sometime between
2029 and 2034, but who's counting? If yer under 50-55 you had better be.

Secondly, the good news. Oh, wait, there doesn't appear to be any because
the Democrats are so fixated on making noise than raising awareness of the
important issues that most affect their voting base. And why didn't the
Dems enact meaningful changes to SS to ensure its longevity when they had
a congressional majority? All these problems were foreseeable long ago.
We're talking like 1977 and 1983 when the last major adjustments were
legislated. Nothing happened under Clinton or Obama. Obama got his ACA,
why couldn't he have done something with SS?

Actually, there is a little good news in that there are a couple of proposals
on the table. One is by Sam Johnson, a Republican from Texas. He is the
Chairman of the Social Security Subcommittee of Ways and Means. John Larson
is the ranking Democrat there. Believe it or not they both offer sustainably
solvent solutions. Predictably, the Republican would not be as kind to
recipients as the Demo version but not so heinously as to preclude some
sort of compromise, IMHO.

What is really needed is rational and unemotional discussion (without
name calling, I might add). What I find ironic is that a minor cut in
the Pentagon's budget would go a really long way towards funding SS.
I fear that may shatter Ken M's impression of me as a Trumpite but I'll
try to live with that.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 13, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
Remember Al Gore's "Lock Box"- the thing conservatives love to make fun of? The premise was to use our budget surplus to shore up social security and Medicare. How dare he propose holding Revenue out of the markets when it can be doled out in tax cuts for the rich?

Since 1980, Republicans have increased the national debt through tax cuts for the wealthy that have been erroneously billed as GDP steriods and revenue-neutral at worst. What a fuking lie and the theory has been completely debunked by economist. Middle class and destitute dipshits keep falling the same repackaged cat sh!t.

Obama's early years were devastating in terms of deficits- He signed a 700 billion dollar bipartisan bailout, had to pay for two wars and he increased military spending by 200 billion because our Armed forces were at a breaking point. Meanwhile, the treasury was sucking air due to the Great Recession and decreased tax revenue.

Most progressives I know are willing to make hard choices to deal with Social Security and Medicare- but not in the backs of the people who actually need it.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Jan 13, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
Mighty Hiker:
The Chinese and Russians must be laughing robustly.

Yes, according to Noam Chomsky "Most of the World is Just Collapsing in Laughter on Claims that Russia Intervened in the US Election".

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/03/most-of-the-world-is-just-collapsing-in-laughter-on-claims-that-russia-intervened-in-the-us-election-an-interview-with-noam-chomsky/

"Chomsky: My guess is that most of the world is just collapsing in laughter. Suppose all the charges are true, I mean every single one, it is so amateurish by US standards that you can hardly even laugh. What the US does is the kind of thing I described in Italy in 1948. Case after case like that, not hacking or spreading rumors in the media; but saying look, weíre going to starve you to death or kill you or destroy you unless you vote the way we want. I mean thatís what we do.

Take the famous 9/11, letís think about it for a minute. It was a pretty awful terrorist act. It could have been a lot worse. Now letís suppose that instead of the plane being downed in Pennsylvania by passengers, suppose it had hit its target, which was probably the White House. Now suppose it had killed the president. Suppose that plans had been set for a military coup to take over the government. And right away, immediately 50,000 people were killed, 700,000 tortured. A bunch of economists were brought in from Afghanistan, letís call them the ďKandahar Boys,Ē who very quickly destroyed the economy, and established a dictatorship which devastated the country. That would have been a lot worse than 9/11. It happened: the first 9/11, it happened on September 11, 1973, in Chile. We did it. Was that interfering or hacking a party? This record is all over the world, constantly overthrowing governments, invading, forcing people to follow what we call democracy, as in the cases I mentioned. As I say, if every charge is accurate, itís a joke, and Iím sure half the world is collapsing in laughter about this, because people outside the United States know it. You donít have to tell people in Chile about the first 9/11."
nah000

climber
now/here
Jan 13, 2018 - 08:47pm PT
Yury: +1
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 13, 2018 - 09:23pm PT
Yes, according to Noam Chomsky "Most of the World is Just Collapsing in Laughter on Claims that Russia Intervened in the US Election".

That's been my reaction all along as well.

DMT
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 13, 2018 - 10:15pm PT
I'm not sure that someone who says he's named Yury ought to be relied on with regard to Russia


That's almost a borderline racist/bigoted statement, MH.
nah000

climber
now/here
Jan 13, 2018 - 11:47pm PT
^^^^

yah, i'd say it's more like straight up bigoted argumentation...

which is ironic, as given what i've seen around the political threads, Yury is one of the more thoughtful people posting and is someone who, in general, is respectful and open to discourse, even if he holds polar opposite opinions to the people he's discussing with...



what's that saying about lawyers living in glass houses?
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 14, 2018 - 05:06am PT
There's abundant evidence that Russia put significant effort into trying to influence the 2016 US presidential election,

There is abundant evidence that the US puts significant effort into trying to influence leadership elections abroad.

This should not come as a surprise. Frankly I'm far more concerned about internal meddling. If there was collusion with Russian sponsored assets then hopefully the Mueller special investigation will out it all.

But a lot of the evidence, like Pizza Gate, is laughable and it was laughable when the story broke.

Cheers
DMT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 14, 2018 - 12:06pm PT
That's almost a borderline racist/bigoted statement, MH.


Would that be the Russian race?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Jan 14, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
So, leaving aside the amusing and ironic question as to whether someone who calls himself Yury is Russian, and whether that is relevant to what he says about Russia...

Has the USA ever influenced or attempted to influence an election in Russia, at least in any way that is proveable? Beyond the usual general vague pieties about democratic norms and such? As DMT says, the USA has often meddled in other countries' elections, sometimes clumsily. And possibly security agencies have done so in Russia, although they're probably careful to cover their tracks. But attempting to overtly influence Russian elections?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 14, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
False alarm in Hawaii revealed an abdication of leadership by Trump

The president should have responded quickly to reassure Americans. He still has not directly addressed what happened Saturday, though the White House put out a statement making clear that the incident was the fault of Hawaii officials.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Jan 14, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
Mighty Hiker:
There's abundant evidence that Russia put significant effort into trying to influence the 2016 US presidential election ...
Let's take a look at some numbers:
1. Putin spent ~$10,000.00 on Facebook ads.
2. Trump spent ~$200,000,000.00 on campaign ads.
3. Hillary spent ~$1,000,000,000.00 on campaign ads.
4. Progressive MSMs published ~$5,000,000,000.00 worth of propaganda materials during last presidential campaign.

At least to me these numbers are not consistent with "Russia put significant effort" claim.

To be effective these $10,000.00 should have been designed by marketing geniuses.
Considering lack of experience and amateurish character of Putin's propaganda (as compared to pro campaigns by Hillary and Trump) such claim of extreme Putin's effectiveness seems a BS to me.
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