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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Feb 27, 2017 - 12:24pm PT
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Ruth Raeburn (1920):
"It is greatly to be recommended to the girl novice, and to all novices, to practise 'bouldering' as much as possible, and for the girl, to select those boulder climbs where activity and balance are of greater value than muscular strength and arm-pulls. She will there, often be able to show a more experienced and much more powerful man, how a short piece of difficult rock can be climbed with ease and grace"
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Feb 27, 2017 - 12:25pm PT
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Micronut
I'm not sure why but I'm never really impressed with this kind of stuff. And I really don't want to sound like a jerk....but I probably do.
Nothing to be ashamed of. Many former Norwegian hotshots refused to be impressed and were critical when Magnus and sister Hannah Midtbø were young remarkable climbers. Today Magnus and Hannah can climb series around them on a 5.13. Today the critic is seldom heard.
And then the wheel turns again...
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Feb 27, 2017 - 12:32pm PT
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The Warbler.
And then a heavy old man in his 40s with sausage fingers and high on prescribed testosteron could be the best climber? Isn't that why we have powerlifting.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Feb 27, 2017 - 12:33pm PT
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Nice post jgill!
Margo on that V10 in the vid did some nice pull-ups near the top. With no spot, or pads! That's pretty trad💪
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 27, 2017 - 12:49pm PT
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I think it wise to move away from Ms. Hayes' physical form and more to her stoke.
Exactly.....
Who give's a rat's ass what the "grade" is? Point is these kids are getting out there and kicking buttes.
We could call it 5.17d and it wouldn't matter a bit since nobody reading this is ever going to repeat it.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 27, 2017 - 01:03pm PT
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We could call it 5.17d and it wouldn't matter a bit since nobody reading this is ever going to repeat it.
Except maybe Warbler ..... :-)
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Feb 27, 2017 - 01:08pm PT
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Where's the selfie?
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Feb 27, 2017 - 01:13pm PT
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I'm not sure why but I'm never really impressed with this kind of stuff. And I really don't want to sound like a jerk....but I probably do. I dunno....it kind of seems like the equivalent of seeing a 9 year old girl crank off 60 sit-ups in a minute at those YMCA fitness achievement days. Or an 11 year old skinny kid do a ton of pull-ups in the school yard. If you're skinny enough and young enough and stoked enough, super hard sport climbing becomes a matter of grit and bodyweight......it just becomes a bit unimpressive to me.
Climbing at that level (or at one's level whatever that is) is more about movement, focus, attention to detail than it is about strength or bodyweight. I'm amazed that you don't see this. If you've ever really spent some time on a hard redpoint project you'll know how much all the little things matter. Don't belittle her achievement. She didn't succeed because she is skinny and strong. She succeeded because she knows how to climb.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Feb 27, 2017 - 01:26pm PT
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Fabulous! But I want to see her do the Cobra Crack. Then Maybe Someone You're Not at Suicide. Then I will really be impressed. Both of those are lower ratings so it shouldn't take long to get up either one.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Feb 27, 2017 - 01:45pm PT
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^^^weRD uP!
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Feb 27, 2017 - 03:09pm PT
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Mike Friedrichs,
I tried my best in my post not to belittle her achievement and say that I was stoked for her and her obvios joy at the whole thing....
My point was to show/get to the bottom of why I don't find these sport route feats too impressive overall.
but She didn't succeed because she is skinny and strong. She succeeded because she knows how to climb.
Actually...I disagree with this a bit. She did succeed MOSTLY because she is skinny and strong. Especially on that type of route. I've been climbing for over 20 years, and I "know how to climb" but I am neither skinny nor strong. Sure, some talent was involved....but in her case I would posit that skinny, strong, and persistent were the primary factors in her success. Perhaps that's why my response to this type of success usually leaves me a bit bland and unimpressed (but still stoked for her and her experience).
I was on the US National team (swimming) back in the day, so I have a fairly good understanding of what it takes to succeed in a sporting endeavor. Sport climbing is just a bit strange to me. I'd put it in the realm of "pull-up champion of the world."
And it just so happens to be a teenager.
http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/5/18/11700516/17-year-old-7300-pull-up-world-record-video-high-school
If it turned out to be a nine year old girl next I wouldn't be that surprised. I personally find Kara Herson's tiny tot send of Half Dome waaaay more impressive than the next teeny bopper 5.15 or 5.16 for that matter. That full on one blew my mind. This one left me kind of "whatev..."
Just my personal take.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Feb 27, 2017 - 03:19pm PT
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pull-up champion of the world
Dang dude.
So why was the grom on Half Dome waaaaay more impressive to you?
Curious.
Edit: btw I was super stoked and inspired by the Herson kids and their climbs. Still some of the best stuff ever on supertopo.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Feb 27, 2017 - 03:22pm PT
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I thought I had something to say, but Micronut just took the wind out of my sails. Kara and her dads climb was pretty freaking inspirational.
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Feb 27, 2017 - 03:25pm PT
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95% of climbing is finger strength/power in proportion to body weight.
Such nonsense. That's like saying that 95% of writing a good novel is typing speed. Or that skiing is only about quad strength. I'm actually surprised that anyone who has been climbing very long would actually believe this. If it were true, I would have topped out at 5.9 and quit climbing 30 years ago.
Ever work a hard sport route on Spanish limestone? I have. It takes incredible mental control. It's not weight lifting like Indian Creek. It takes precision, the ability to find the exact, perfect sequences for your body type. It takes knowing when to punch it, when to shake out, how long to shake out. It takes breath control. Body positioning is more important than finger strength. It's not the same move over and over.
Years ago Dingus McGee and I were at a wedding where they had a grip strength tester. I think we were second worst and worst of the whole party. But we can climb significantly harder than any of them. Climbing is about knowing how to move, not about finger strength.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 27, 2017 - 03:39pm PT
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Years ago Dingus McGee and I were at a wedding where they had a grip strength tester. I think we were second worst and worst of the whole party. But we can climb significantly harder than any of them. Climbing is about knowing how to move, not about finger strength.
Maybe that's true if climbing hard means climbing a little harder than your middle-aged (or older), overweight buds.
But basically, real hard climbing is just being able to hold onto small holds. If you cannot hold onto super small holds, you're not even playing the game, I don't care how well you think you can move.
Let me tell you, as someone who sees many professional and national (and international) competition climbers all the freaking time (I have to dodge them between my VB sends)--there is nothing particularly special about "how they move," it's kind of like everyone else--some variation of grab a hold, move a foot up, grab another hold, move another foot up . . . . You get the point.
They can grab holds that most people cannot. The can leap from hold to hold pretty well too. It's pretty much that simple.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Feb 27, 2017 - 03:47pm PT
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I think, like many sports, you have to develop an appreciation for it.
Where some see people just them doing a series of pull ups on the rock, the more you learn the more you can see everything that's going on.
Drop knees are an obvious example, but if you are attuned to what's going on you can see literally hundreds of moves that must be made to climb a route like this. The subtle weight shifts, the repositioning of hands on holds, sometimes multiple times as they work through a sequence. It doesn't matter how strong your fingers are if you aren't getting your weight on your feet as much as possible.
I love the videos where you see people like Sharma working out the moves over the course of YEARS. Then to successfully send they need to remember a lot of moves, conserve strength, and do every move perfectly.
Yes finger strength is a prerequisite to have any chance on a climb like this. But there's a hell of a lot of other things that have to happen and that's what a lot of people appreciate.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Feb 27, 2017 - 04:07pm PT
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Ask Kara Herson what she thinks about Margo sending La Rambla...
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Feb 27, 2017 - 04:11pm PT
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". . . will find that a young boy will easily climb a short stone wall where a grown man cannot . . ."
From memory; may have been Claude Benson or George Abraham early 1900s.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 27, 2017 - 04:52pm PT
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But to Red point routes in the 5.14 / 5.15 range you must combine focus, breathing, perfect movement with a superior level of strength, fingers included. I watched a video of Sharma climbing La Rambla, and there were several cruxy sections with small finger holds. No amount of focus or visualization or body positioning or breathing or flow can compete with simply exceptional finger strength combined with the others. The hardest sport routes I've done, lowly 12 +, called on my whole bag of tricks, plus good conditioning of the fingers.
I never train and rarely work a route more than a few times to get up one, but I think I understand the mindset required. Pure high strength to low weight has to be part of a successful redpoint at the highest levels. Success is the sum of many factors.
Nope, you guys are over complicating it.
Both world class climbers and Average Joe at the gym can usually redpoint about a number harder than they can onsite (give or take a letter grade, rarely more than that, although I'm sure someone who's got an ax to grind can think of odd exceptions).
This shows that when they're sending their sick proj, they're doing just what you and I do when we send are notably less-sick projs--basically just figuring out and them memorizing sequences.
This notion that there is something very special about what world class climbers do compared to what most duffers do is sort of odd--you people who think that must not see many high-level climbers in action is all I can think. If you've had the opportunity to do that (I see them all the time at the Boulder gym), maybe you wouldn't have these strange delusions than they are anything other than (almost invariably) whippet thin guys and gals with strong fingers (and pretty good technique, at least solidly above average).
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Feb 27, 2017 - 04:59pm PT
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Who said they're doing something different than us...like you keep asserting?
Edit:
This shows that when they're sending their sick proj, they're doing just what you and I do when we send are notably less-sick projs--basically just figuring out and them memorizing sequences.
Yeah, no sh¡t.
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