Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
monolith
climber
state of being
|
|
Nah, just another tempest in a teapot, created by a tabloid hack that makes baseline mistakes.
|
|
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
Right.
The end result justifies the means... even if that means side-stepping industry standards.
Nothing to see here.
Move along.
|
|
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
Nothing to see here.
Move along.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
However Bates, who acknowledges that Earth is warming from man-made carbon dioxide emissions, said in the interview that there was "no data tampering, no data changing, nothing malicious."
Major global warming study again questioned, again defended
By SETH BORENSTEIN and MICHAEL BIESECKER Feb. 7, 2017
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/recent-global-surface-warming-hiatus
Possible artifacts of data biases in the recent global surface warming hiatus
Thomas R. Karl, Anthony Arguez, Boyin Huang, Jay H. Lawrimore, James R. McMahon, Matthew J. Menne, Thomas C. Peterson, Russell S. Vose, Huai-Min Zhang
Assessing recent warming using instrumentally homogeneous sea surface temperature records
Zeke Hausfather, Kevin Cowtan, David C. Clarke, Peter Jacobs, Mark Richardson and Robert Rohde
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
^^^^^ Artful obfuscation. Can you please quit slapping us with these phony hockey sticks.
|
|
Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
|
|
^^well, your rubber tomahawk couldn't scalp Mr. Potato Head, but keep on swinging!
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
I prefer to get my science information from the science literature, the Daily Mail isn't a place that I go to find reliable reporting on science (I do not read it with any frequency, actually, and probably only responding to some very odd articles it publishes). I don't believe the article even links to the original documents.
I've posted links to the the scientific evidence, it is there to see. If you can marshall scientific evidence that is contrary to the conclusions of those papers, please present it.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
How would you figure out s carbon tax for say a ski ticket?
Is someone really going to figure out the true cost that should be applied to an individual skier based on their use of certain lifts and trails used?
How would it be applied?
Seems like a logistical nightmare full of potential loopholes
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
Libs don't like nuclear energy, so we've largely abandoned it.
Libs like hybrids, so we have them, despite the fact that we burn more coal and natural gas to fuel them.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are-not-necessarily-clean/
http://www.mapawatt.com/2010/11/29/where-does-us-electricity-come
Libs like their red meat, so we mow down rain forests to create cattle ranches. (Libs should be the leading proponents of vegetarianism, but they are not.)
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/beef-production-is-killing-the-amazon-rainforest/
http://www.energysavingsecrets.co.uk/more-energy-efficient-be-vegetarian.html
Libs believe that "it's obvious" that global warming is bad, very bad, so it must be bad, very bad.
Libs say "scientists say" to mean "some scientists say" particularly when they are "quoting" some scientists who are making value judgments over which science has no particular expertise.
In fact, during the majority of the earth's geological history (as best we can tell) the earth has been much warmer than it now is, and we are coming out of the most recent ice age.
Since the Cambrian era, we are now in a period marked by fewer species than have been historically present, with warm and wet periods clearly supporting more species (and speciation) than we observe at present. (Try putting a petri dish of microbes in a freezer and see what happens.)
Libs believe that they can in principle define what "just right" should look and feel like for a global climate, including all the present and potential species.
Libs believe that whatever they happen to prefer should define "normalcy" for the earth and all societies in it, despite the fact that a warmer global climate would be a net-gain for arable land globally, as just one example. Just because some people will suffer locally doesn't imply that the globe will be worse off due to significant warming. The lib perspective of global warming is the worst combination of speciesism and local relativism.
The argument is prima facia compelling that global warming is a good thing rather than a bad thing, considered objectively.
Perhaps that's why many are not more concerned with it.
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
Looks like a winner, with a number of qualifications, Moose.
1. For general funds only.
2. Keep it simple, no graduated rates dependent on amount of energy usage, no rebates or other redistributions, no exclusions or credits system for off setting. Rather than attempts by a whole new permanent government agency to determine CO2 production per KWH, product, or service just base the tax on cost. Since energy usage is a large portion of product cost, price is good indicator of domestic made CO2 production. A seperate inefficiencies quotient to be applied to foreign produced products.
3. Decoupled from climate change or other religious/scientific ideologies. Instead, stated to encourage savings/conservation.
4. Border tax on foreign produced goods that includes wholesale costs plus long distance transportation costs, plus a inefficiencies quotient that reflects poor practices in energy production, distribution and end usage. This would have the effect of encouraging local, in country production.
5. Coupled with a matching American produced tax reduction that matches the foreign produced tax haul.
6. End all corporate and personal subsidies for so called renewable energy and the products, such as EV'S using it.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
I have resisted posting on this thread until now.
That's all. Carry on.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
Is someone really going to figure out the true cost that should be applied to an individual skier based on their use of certain lifts and trails used?
Why bother?
Skiing is not a necessary (or even useful) condition to the health of the planet. Let global warming continue and even increase as the good trend that it is! Skiing with thus be rendered largely irrelevant, along with the above question.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
Or just remove the lifts... they are tremendously wasteful and useful to mainly the wealthy elite.
As far as costs the notion of use more pay more and averages don't exactly go hand in hand...
Carbon taxes sound great. If you have a tesla and taxpayer subsidized solar panels...
Not so great if you are not rich
But by all means let's do nothing to limit our population while enchaining our increasingly irrelevant economy with more taxes in the face of growing competitors who don't give a damn about climate change..
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
a few hundred million people will die due to the climate change
No need for that, other than the few-hundred million that are gonna die anyway. People are going to get a LOT of warning as climate shifts. So, over a generation or two, they can move. Novel thought.
Or, yeah, some are gonna die. Some are gonna die anyway.
The PLANET will move on, and better for it.
You libs are all globalists, so take a global perspective. Stop with the narrow-minded speciesism and coastal relativism.
|
|
eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
|
|
Libs say "scientists say" to mean "some scientists say" particularly when they are "quoting" some scientists who are making value judgments over which science has no particular expertise.
I seem to recall you bragging about how you used to give talks on evolution -- like how whales did not evolve from land mammals. You seemed to indicate that you really did not believe that species evolve into other species. I won't give much credence to your thoughts on science in general after that.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
I won't give much credence to your thoughts on science in general after that.
Lucky for you, because this is your lucky day, we're not talking about my thoughts on science. We're talking about what libs themselves say.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
Just another angry redneck, lol.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
Just another angry redneck, lol.
I'm not the one who's angry and expecting the whole world to conform to my narrow-minded perspectives. I'm the one who's happy with how things are going. I've got a big-picture, objective, truly globalist perspective! Yayyy... bring it on! Baffin Island can become warm and lush again! Dinosaurs can rule the earth once again!
And we can hunt them! What's not to love?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!