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16 ounces
climber
homer, alaska
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Sep 29, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
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to rope solo and to live
is to travel beauty's
drunken path.
it is so very excellent
to barely be.
because usually,
tomorrow is shoved down your
throat.
careful, though,
because forever
is ovulating,
and she is ripe to
receive your
shotgun death.
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pswitz
climber
honolulu
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Sep 29, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
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In the mountains it is safer to spend less time subjected to objective dangers of rockfall and weather. So for each person/objective there is a different point at which roped travel is actually more dangerous because it is slower. For some people/objectives, this intersection might be class 2 hiking trails with occasional class 3. For other people with more ambitious objectives it may be safer to go unroped on class 4. etc, etc.
Reading through the ANAM you see plenty of deaths from people getting caught out. But the bias is such so you won't see the analysis read "The pair could have avoided the storm by traveling unroped on terrain that was well within their ability to do so"
We hear about people getting saved by the rope when they fall, or dying if they fall unroped, because that is a dramatic event. We generally don't hear about the guy who DIDN'T get killed by lightning because he was off the mountain before noon. Thus the bias.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Sep 29, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
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Regardless there seems little material difference between soloing and scrambling -- which I think is kind of the point that the OP was trying to make. We just say scrambling when the terrain is easier.
That was the point I was trying to make as well, though poorly I suppose. I don't see the rating as making a distinction between whether one is soloing or not soloing. Others apparently believe it does however.
Let me see if I can help clear this up although Vitilay's posts seemed perfectly clear to me and I imagine to most people who have even a passing familiarity with both mountaineering and crag-style climbing.
There is a lot of 4th and easy 5th class terrain that is most commonly climbed unroped because it's not really feasible to use a rope as it would be too slow and may cause other problems (knocking rocks off). Often people may bring a rope to use for certain sections of this type of climbing, depending on terrain, skill level, and risk appetite. Examples of this type of climbing that I'm personally familiar with are things like Little Bear - Blanca traverse and some of the other popular Colorado 14er traverses. It's of course theoretically possible to rope up for the entirety of such a climb, but most people who would be inclined to do that decide they have better things to with their time.
These types of climbs have been climbed mostly unroped (in whole or in part) for as long as people have been doing this activity, often by people who never solo "real" rock climbs.
It's a dangerous activity, depending on the route, climber, and conditions. My view is that it's probably more dangerous than some of the participants perceive, but who knows.
Unroped mountaineering-style climbing (call it scrambling or what you will) hasn't the slightest thing to do with the exploits of the Honnonlds of the world and their predecessors.
Climbing is done on a spectrum and there's a gray area between mountaineering-style scrambling and what most people would consider to be soling in the sense of climbing rock routes that are almost always climbed with a rope. (Here's a rule of thumb--if you're climbing for a long stretch of near vertical rock--you're soloing, not scrambling.) An example of the gray area may be routes of the Flatirons outside of Boulder, CO, which are commonly climbed both roped and unroped, and other easy slab climbs.
But the OP in this thread was making a comment about high level climbers doing "rad" solos--that's an activity that has very little to do with mountaineering style scrambling.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Sep 29, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
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In all your words though you really didn't explain how going unroped on a 5.easy ridge is any different from soloing technical rock besides the fact that the 5.easy ridge is easier and less committing and people solo them often. Sure it _feels_ different, but fact is you fall off either and you will die. Doesn't matter if that's the only viable style to do the route in or not.
Fair enough.
Here's the TL;DR version:
Mountaineering style scrambling, while dangerous, is not closely related to the feats of Honnold.
If you don't get that, what can I say, I tried :)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 29, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
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Mountaineering style scrambling, while dangerous, is not closely related to the feats of Honnold.
True, but it kills way more folks every year.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 29, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
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blahblah,
You're right. They're not comparable. I don't think anyone would rightfully argue that point. However, five thirty is right as well. Just because people have almost always soloed 3rd to 4th class stuff does not mean that it is not soloing just because most consider it "scrambling" or some other equivalent where a rope is impractical or not needed most of the time. Regardless, the community has recently lost several fine people. Maybe rather than arguing over minutae, we can just reminds ourselves to be careful out there.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Sep 29, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
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Mountaineering style scrambling, while dangerous, is not closely related to the feats of Honnold
Over a half century ago there were fewer climbers and fewer solo climbers and a modest solo might bring admiration from your peers. Today such feats are commonplace and it takes a very dangerous effort to elicit those kinds of rewards.
Of course, we all solo for personal satisfaction and eschew any public recognition.
;>)
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Sep 29, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
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If the only criteria of risk is, ” you fall off and you will die” then I have been on lots of class 2-3 terrain where a fall would mean death. There are sections of hiking trails where this is true, Zion’s Angel landing trail comes to mind. Life is a solo, some just fly closer to the sun.
Most scared I have ever been was while roped on a snow ridge, might as well have seen solo.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Sep 29, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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the feats of Honnold
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Sep 30, 2016 - 07:04am PT
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Mountaineering can also involve unroped climbing up to 5.4 on chossy ground with boots, pack etc.
Climbing a big technical N Face in the Cdn Rockies means if you put the rope on easier ground than 5.5 or 5.6 you won't have enough time to deal with harder stuff up higher and will have to bivy.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 30, 2016 - 08:07am PT
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Soloing is just a natural expression of the artistry of our noble art of rock climbing, like chopping bolts to protect the dignity of our first ascents. Why do we need to believe that soloing and posting about it, or chopping bolts in defense of the dignity of our first ascents and posting about it, is anything other than an expression of our artistry, an artistry of risk which we intentionally promote and admire?
When you're artists like us painting our masterpieces, sometimes you're gonna spill a little paint.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Sep 30, 2016 - 08:15am PT
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it all went to sh#t with that guy with the boombox and tube sox on Reed's Direct, I say.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 30, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
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Smokin' Duck Sauce.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 30, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
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Treating soloing too casually.....go right ahead, i'm all for freedom of expression. I suspect that some of the old farts here will want to rain on your parade by telling you it's risky.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Sep 30, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
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Freedumb!
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Sep 30, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
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What, me worry?
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 30, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
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I liked what Nutagain said:
There is a certain mental endurance required to be seriously focused at all moments for an extended period of time.
This is SO true. Many times in the mountains, usually on the descent, I've done the "Keep focused!" mantra. We need to do this even on the most moderate of terrain where a fall would be disastrous.
My OP was not about rad solos per se. I'm wondering about cultural shifts and perceptions. As I've said, I have soloed in the past and might do so again, but I think it's worth pondering what Nutagain said: Screw your head down TIGHT, even on the easy stuff. Never any guarantees, but you gotta stack the deck in your favor.
BAd
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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too casual may be too commonly descriptive of our attitude when in the presence of less than obvious rolling
and crushing hazards. anticipation and analysis can consume so much attention it becomes dissuasive
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Oct 12, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
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It was always an easy choice for me: solo held zero attraction, in fact, scared me to death to think about it. As soon as I put a rope and rack on I felt safe and comfortable, even though sometimes I found myself in quite unsafe situations with log run outs or poor pro.
Looking back, I think some self delusion was at play, or questionable faith all would be well. Somehow, even a crashing fall into the freezing north sea on a FA where the pro popped didn't wake me up. After all, I was roped!
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Oct 12, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
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Higgins Bump!
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