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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 20, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
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I agree Bruce.
The difference is how much you want to invest in challenging yourself. Do you want to put your physical well being on the line? If not, it is completely different experience...only your ego is at stake.
If you are not ready for that, which is fine, climb something else.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 20, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
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Some good perspectives on this thread. I don't see this as a "generational battle" at all. In fact, one of the most prolific retrobolters in history (Erik Sloan) would probably be considered "older generation".
I like the post about "investment" in climbing. I've belayed a few men who were willing to put their life on the line for climbing, none did (yet) but one broke his neck in a lead fall rope soloing, another ripped a beak almost entirely through his hand. There is plenty of room for all styles and levels of investments. Just leave existing routes alone, don't bring them down to your level by adding lead protection bolts.. Find another route to do or put up your own.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 20, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
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Support for strong, traditional ethics in Tuolumne is to some extent due to the high visibility of the routes. Crimes are committed when you think no one is looking, and you fancy you can get away with it. If anyone tried adding bolts to Bachar/Yerian, there'd be hell to pay pretty quickly.
I am a great believer in top roping climbs that are a bit out of your grade. Doing so is a humble, open way of admitting that you are not up to the standard of that route. Extra bolting is a denial of a that truth.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Sep 20, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
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It is what we say it is, and I say the FA stands as is unless the original creators are on record advocating a change. That seems to be consensus and will be policed as such.
I think you are taking your moniker a little too serious tut.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Sep 20, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
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A First Ascent is a part of the history of the park. The case can be easily made to the NPS that while future bolt placement (on new routes) and replacement (on old routes) is allowed, retro-bolting is a defacement of the History of Yosemite and American Climbing that has at the center of it's ethos that the placement of bolts should be left to the FA party (that history the NPS has some duty to protect as part of it's mission to preserve the history of Yosemite) and that retro-bolts are a defacement of that history (like Sloan's bolts on the Great Slab).
Involve the NPS.
What a terrible idea.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Sep 20, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
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What is in vogue skips a generation.
The funniest thing to happen to this retro-bolt generation is going to be when the following generation 20 years from now gets inspired by the history of climbing, and spits in their faces methodically yanking a bevy of the retro-bolts, restoring climbs to original ascent condition.
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Sep 21, 2016 - 07:07am PT
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How about the high profile, high end climber placing bolts next to an A2 crack on a popular, well established aid route that gets done a hundred times a year by gumby aid climbers but may only get free climbed once in a decade or two?
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Sep 21, 2016 - 07:41am PT
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^^ I've oft wondered the same
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 21, 2016 - 07:43am PT
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 21, 2016 - 10:56am PT
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This anchor was sure an overkill! It is more like an assault weapon, don't fk with Steve any time soon! LOL
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 21, 2016 - 11:27am PT
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Involving the NPS in order to limit/prevent retro-bolting is a terrible idea. For instance, if they prevent a line from being retro-bolted or removed a bolt, and someone got injured/killed. Not good.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Sep 21, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
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WTF?
Look at it this way, you have a new set of safety chains for your utility trailer.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Sep 21, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
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When everyone is gone in a few generations I suspect most if not all routes that people want to climb will be retrobolted.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 21, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
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Sadly I have to agree with OTE and DMT.
Erik Sloan is simply the first to publically promote himself by saying to the world, "Fvck You, I will power drill bolts anywhere I want, on anyone else's routes that I want". It's the nature of our modern society where most want to instantly make themselves famous without doing any real work of their own. There was a long time in climbing when folks respected the pioneers and visionaries, those days seem to be dying quickly. Woot Woot!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 21, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
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anytime climbers are dumb enough to bring their petty suabbles to the attention of the LAW, VERRY BAD THINGS HAPPEN. Don't be the dumb f*#k that gets climbing banned or sevearly restricted at your local crag because you got your pantys in a bunch.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Sep 21, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
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Involving the NPS and invoking the wilderness act would be madness. Whatever problem with retro bolting that is perceived would be dwarfed by some D.C. produced management plan.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 21, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
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History and tradition are much worth preserving.
Getting the NPS involved in bolt management is likely not the best idea (look at Christmas Tree Pass). Getting the Climbing Rangers to launch an investigation into alleged illegal power drilling in a Wilderness Area (I.e. El Cap) by a certain individual (i.e. Erik Sloan) is very much a good cause. Bust the poster child of retrobolting using a power drill, set an example (heavy fines, overnight in jail, banned from park system) and that may slow down the problem for a little while.
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Friend
climber
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Sep 21, 2016 - 08:47pm PT
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+1 albatross
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Sep 21, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
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The wilderness act does not preserve man made history, to the contrary its intent is to prevent human imprint. Fixed anchors are tacitly accepted, but I wouldn't want to push the issue in court as there are compelling arguments against as well.
In any case if the climbing community eventually decides it doesn't care who did what in 1978 and just wants safe climbs there will be no one around to preserve those climbs for anyway.
For the record I'm opposed to retro bolting but I also can't see preserving climbs forever as being realistic.
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