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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Yeah, island was great... another utopia, but this one overtaken by a larger, more militarized foreign enemy.
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WBraun
climber
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Huxley feared that our desire will ruin us.
Huxley was clueless mental speculator.
Desire is the root of the living entity.
It's impossible to destroy life itself ......
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Desire is the root of the living entity.
It's impossible to destroy life itself ......
+1
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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and that is relevant, how?
It is relevant in that -- I hope -- it points out the attitude of snotty superiority on display in sycorax's posts.
To say "I teach literature, therefore your thoughts on writing are irrelevant" is nothing more than a display of insecurity.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Island - here and now
BNW- I think God has manifested himself as an absence
Doors of Perception - anti soma
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
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Jaybro, ekatApplePimp was just talking about Doors Of Perception to me today!!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I was trying to pry him away from a video, and he has a HP Lovecraft book from City Lights that he put down. I wanted to nudge him back into it. That's what started me off on the whole deal.
I went through a lot of similar issues when my sons were growing up. I don't know if my experience will help, but for what it's worth...
I'm a writer by trade, and have been in love with the written word since my dad read to me as a toddler. But even so, I never once said to my sons that books were better than TV. There is plenty of useless, mind-numbing crap in print, and there is good stuff on TV.
And even when it came to the real shitty stuff that was on TV, I didn't lay down any law about "You can't watch that sh#t." What I did do was, after they had watched some piece of absolute video sh#t, ask them to talk to me about it. To clue me in on why they thought it was worth watching.
Only had to do that a couple of times and they got their own message.
Bottom line for me was that I didn't really care what they read or watched, but rather that they learned to think. I believed that if I could help them learn to think, the reading would take care of itself.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I failed with my son in that regard. But he is an exceptional human being without being well read.
Then you didn't fail, did you?
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Huxley feared that our desire will ruin us
That's the McDonald's business plan as near as I can see.
How did I miss this? Reilly, that is hilarious, curious, and seems to be true. :)
Ghost, so few children have parents who can think critically, and thus cannot pass those skills on to their children. I am not sure why this is so. But children who have been taught critical thinking, whether well-read, formally educated, professional, or potter they may become, will have a significant advantage in making their way and finding their true path. Go Socratic method! And bravo to those who use it! I observe my adult daughters sometimes and all they are accomplishing, and I stand in delight at how well they think. But there were days when they were still school when we wondered . . .
But Moose, what we as parents most value, I think, is being able to say, "he is an exceptional human being " as we smile.
I am reading W. H. Murray's last book. I have one of his quote above my credenza:
"But when I said that nothing had been done I erred in one important matter. We had definitely committed ourselves and were halfway out of our ruts. We had put down our passage money--booked a sailing to Bombay. This may sound too simple, but is great in consequence. Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, the providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way. I learned a deep respect for one of Goethe's couplets:
Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it!”
W.H. Murray
Source: The Scottish Himalaya Expedition
As long as we are discussing words. :)
Thank you for this interesting discussion.
feralfae
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Too funny Survival, "a latticework of coincidence" - from another apple product.....
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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No " Plate o shrimp" for them,Jim!
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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that the moment one definitely commits oneself, the providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way.
I've heard this quote for decades. Is this the original original?
Thank you x1000 Feralfae.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Bread and Circus
It is to be prayed that the mind be sound in a sound body.
Ask for a brave soul that lacks the fear of death,
which places the length of life last among nature’s blessings,
which is able to bear whatever kind of sufferings,
does not know anger, lusts for nothing and believes
the hardships and savage labors of Hercules better than
the satisfactions, feasts, and feather bed of an Eastern king.
I will reveal what you are able to give yourself;
For certain, the one footpath of a tranquil life lies through virtue.
Juvenal
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cintune
climber
Ollin Arageed Space
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Today's situation is 1984 for the dissident, and Brave New World for the complacent. Because the observer influences the reality, as we should all know....
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Flip Flop asked:
I've heard this quote for decades. Is this the original original?
I don't know. I had that quote (framed) above my desk at ETS and then at Northwestern during the 70s and 80s, and many visitors would comment on it. I do know Murray wrote it, and his writing is articulate and entertaining as well as informative. And he was a great mountaineer as well. I have never heard anyone say it wasn't his own words and I take it as given that those are his exact sentiments, especially since his writing often reflects his philosophy, which he honed and polished while a POW during WWII.
But, yes, I have long loved that quote, and it has inspired me to think carefully at times of what I want to do, and once the decision to proceed is made, to tax the Universe, Providence, and Creation with my expectations of assistance.
And it has always worked: as soon as I "buy the ticket" a new energy seems to emerge, carrying me along from fortuitous intercession to fortuitous intercession as I make my way toward my goal. I am often amazed and delighted when I review the things that have been achieved when I am fully committing to an endeavor. Yes, there is the work of it, but the path is definitely cleared for me by unexpected gifts of serendipity. :)
I am glad you enjoyed it.
feralfae
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Yup...
What is your thought on the matter, locker?
Edit: obviously "thinking" is always done, it is the depth or breadth of thought that counts
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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"But when I said that nothing had been done I erred in one important matter. We had definitely committed ourselves and were halfway out of our ruts. We had put down our passage money--booked a sailing to Bombay. This may sound too simple, but is great in consequence. Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, the providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way. I learned a deep respect for one of Goethe's couplets:
Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it!”
W.H. Murray
Source: The Scottish Himalaya Expedition
I find the last 2 lines somewhat inspiring, but the rest to be trivial. Of course when you make certain 'life decisions', a whole sea of events are set into motion, altering your destiny.
Is the beauty you find in the passage the notion that people just never stop to ponder such things? That we do not realize every decision we make has consequence, sometimes quite profound consequence?
EDIT: Oh, and Huxley was right. He called it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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"I say there is more ignorance now... all data (and analysis) is available at a few clicks, no reason to think on your own."...
I think you're correct. Not 100%, or course, but overall I think you're correct.
It has a lot to do with what technology has brought us, what it has done to our lives. It is a lot of good, but with some potentially dangerous side-effects.
I think it is much easier, obviously, for people over 40 to see this. We have one foot in the digital-age, and the other in books and the analog world. We grew up without certain 'distractions'. Had others. Was one 'better for us' than the other? I think so, but it's not so cut/dry as you would think.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Just the game of trying to remember something, or the speculations that were necessary to discuss anything, have become unnecessary, even obnoxious to some.
Just look it up
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Just look it up
are you asking me to "Google it"? ..hehe
When speculation becomes something tedious or obnoxious, we are really f*#ked.
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