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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 29, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
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no Mad,
I was referring to the specific language where Hillary states that guns in America
should be removed from otherwise legal gun owners
I can't seem to find that?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 29, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
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Like your post philo.
Truth.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2015 - 05:55pm PT
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Many will respond, "Nobody's trying to take your guns," but that's a lie. There are many on this very thread who advocate for it, and the Hillabeast herself is now advocating for it.
Absolutely. There are entire classes of weapons no individual should own - mandatory buyback is the only reasonable approach, along with titling, licensing and insuring guns.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 29, 2015 - 06:02pm PT
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I was referring to the specific language where Hillary states that guns in America should be removed from otherwise legal gun owners
Okay, so that you won't later try to create an ambiguity where there is none, Australia's program did EXACTLY what you said: "guns being removed from otherwise legal gun owners."
Among other implications, including the mandatory buyback aspect, "...the [Australian] legislation required all firearm-license applicants to show 'genuine reason' for owning a gun, which couldn't include self-defense" (from the newamerican link below).
Now, with that clearly on the table, the news reports on this are literally endless, so I can't imagine how you are honestly not seeing this for what it IS.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/16/hillary-clinton-australia-gun-ban-worth-looking-u-s/
"Would Hillary Clinton ban guns in the United States? She apparently supported the idea last Friday, but then supposedly dismissed it three days later. It’s the difference between an on- and off-Teleprompter candidate."
Yeah, she floated it, got a huge negative reaction, and then backpedaled.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/21803-hillary-clinton-unchained-gun-ban-worth-looking-at
There's nothing obscure about her intentions. She has repeatedly said (placing her own opinion OVER that of the SCOTUS 2010 decision) that the 2nd amendment does NOT refer to an INDIVIDUAL right (which would, oddly, make it the one amendment in the Bill of Rights that would not reference an individual right).
And her repeated references to the Australian program, coupled with, "Worth looking at," clearly indicate that she intends to ban guns in individual hands, force law-abiding citizens to "sell back" their guns to the government, and then (as Australia did) force would-be gun-buyers to demonstrate a "need" that could not include self-defense as a "need".
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 29, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
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There are entire classes of weapons no individual should own
Yup, like WMDs and so forth.
Whatever the police are allowed to use upon the citizenry, the citizenry must be allowed to possess for themselves.
The idea that the police are "high and lifted up" above the citizenry was always a mistake, and its baleful results are being more and more commonly seen. Whatever the cops think they need to defend themselves, the citizenry needs to defend itself.
We DO NOT wait on the cops to keep us safe. That is NOT their job, and endless events have revealed the fallacy of thinking that the cops are there to prevent crime and keep us safe. WE are the first-responders, not the cops. Our own self-defense resides in our own hands, and we only proxy off that responsibility at our peril.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 30, 2015 - 02:34am PT
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Some poor lady working a minimum wage job loses her life and Supertopo manages to make it all about them. You should be so proud.
My response exactly. Vitaliy's response - about a friend being stabbed to death in a similarly unfathomable situation - was one of the few that captures, to me, the gist of this tragic story. We're hearing variants of it all the time. Road rage seems to be the fact pattern du jour, but almost any incidence of people not getting their way can set someone off with dramatic, tragic consequences.
I must add, though, that employees often feel like family, despite what Jim may have experienced. I know that the personal lives of the people with whom I've worked, including those I've employed, affect me deeply. We shouldn't be surprised if the people with whom we spend the most time seem like family to us.
My heart goes out to everyone involved in this tragedy. The grief of all - but particularly that of the shooter's mother, must be overwhelming.
John
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pinckbrown
Trad climber
Woodfords, CA
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Nov 30, 2015 - 05:55am PT
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My heart goes out to the posters that feel the need
to repost the news constantly on a climbing forum.
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Gunkie
climber
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Nov 30, 2015 - 06:00am PT
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On the first Saturday night after NYC rolled out the no smoking in bars and restaurants a bouncer was stabbed to death for asking a patron to not smoke in the establishment.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Nov 30, 2015 - 06:29am PT
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I won't wade into the typical gun-control debate here except to suggest everyone read Sam Harris' piece:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun
What strikes me about this story is that it truly seems to be a double tragedy. First of all, of course, for the poor woman. But the man who shot her was clearly out of his mind from the brain injury he received in the previous accident. I've read about this before. Often, sufferers become completely different people, often prone to a violence that was never part of their characters before. If this guy would shoot someone for such a non-reason, it was likely just a matter of time before he killed someone else and/or himself with a gun/car/whatever. He was a ticking bomb. Sad all the way around.
BAd
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 30, 2015 - 07:31am PT
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Being a kindly & sympathetic person, I will respect the wishes of those who consider this an inappropriate to ST thread. I do believe those who needed to say something have now said, or spewed, it in the time this thread has been up. I hope Madbolter1 has saved his work, since he did some impressive ranting.
Bye.
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