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John M
climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:00am PT
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Resa Aslan is a poster child for the "regressive left." I suggests anyone who is taken in by him needs to research the subject a little deeper.
I suggest that you look a little closer at the video. He never suggested that there were not problems. He was trying to explain that it isn't because of Islam. Its because of people. He uses the countries in Africa to explain. Such as the countries which are Christian, yet practice female mutilation. The idea is to look further then the religion, and look at the root, which is people. People can take any belief and screw it up.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:01am PT
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I've watched the video (edit: or related videos) many times beginning several months ago (edit: beginning years ago).
Resa Aslan is an enabler. Research every Muslim now in the limelight serious about bringing reform to Islam, serious about combating Islamism (the politicization of Islam) and you'll see consensus, the accuracy of my post and also their view of Resa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Aslan#Criticisms
He constantly criticizes criticisms of fundamentalist Islam and Sharia law - bristling with illiberalism - going back years now.
Don't take my word for it. See any top ten list of serious scholarly reformists of Islam (for lack of a better word) and chances are somewhere in their work or twitters or wherever they have something to say about Resa Aslan and his approach and his cronies.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:11am PT
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DMT has a good point about over reaction.
In this case an over reaction would be to resettle these people on our shores. Sure, Obama and Hillary exacerbated the problem by shipping massive amounts of arms from the Libya they had just destroyed to unknown elements in Syria to destroy The government of Assad. And now we should take their assurances that the 10,000 to 250,000 refugees they were an integral part of creating won't contain a radical element intent on mayhem. Why should we listen to them any more than Bush before them? Why should we listen to the feel good progressives attempts to lessen their feelings of guilt?
If you can't resettle them there, then don't break their countries.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2015 - 10:12am PT
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John M....you are certainly right about people being able to screw up any religion. Look at what people in this country have done with Christianity.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:13am PT
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I suggest that you look a little closer at the video . . .
John, I suggest you take a little closer look at sharia.
E.g., what is the proper punishment for adultery?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:13am PT
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Assad = Obama's Saddam Hussein
We need to quit putting important decisions in the hands of elected idiots.
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John M
climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:14am PT
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What I saw on the video was the news reporters trying to demonize muslims. He was simply showing that its not really about muslims, its about people. His examples were telling. I have no idea whatever else he has been up to. Thats not my point.
Blahblah.. I am familiar with Sharia. Sharia isn't necessarily fully accepted by every Muslim, anymore then most Christians today following only the old testaments an eye for an eye.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:38am PT
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French journalist Nicolas Henin was a prisoner of ISIS and a cellmate of several of the beheaded journalists. Among other things, he had this to say about the mindset of his captors:
"With their news and social media interest, they will be noting everything that follows their murderous assault on Paris, and my guess is that right now the chant among them will be ‘We are winning’."
"They will be heartened by every sign of overreaction, of division, of fear, of racism, of xenophobia; they will be drawn to any examples of ugliness on social media."
"Central to their world view is the belief that communities cannot live together with Muslims, and every day their antennae will be tuned towards finding supporting evidence…Cohesion, tolerance – it is not what they want to see.”
When the IRA was terrorizing London, the Londoners felt it was their patriotic duty to continue life unafraid. They still pursued the terrorists, but they resolved not to let the violence destroy their way of life. Similarly, Lincoln was urged to postpone the 1864 election. His response was that if he did so, the Confederacy could rightly say that they had defeated and conquered us.
If we surrender to the mindless hate of ISIS by tarring all Syria, all Muslims or all middle easterners with that brush, ISIS accomplishes its purposes. We need to defeat ISIS on the ground in Syria and Iraq, but we cannot surrender our own liberty and tolerance in the process.
John
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John M
climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:40am PT
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Excellent post JohnE
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:41am PT
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Very much in agreement, John.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2015 - 10:44am PT
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Note that the bizarre beliefs prevalent in BOTH the Koran and the Bible have provided justification down through the ages for BOTH Christians and Muslims visiting unspeakable atrocities on their fellow humans.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:46am PT
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No JE. We don't need to defeat ISIS on the ground there. We don't need to expend more blood and treasure. We need to quit breaking their governments. We need to isolate the radicals there and let the people of those countries deal with them themselves.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:48am PT
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Spot on, John.
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John M
climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:54am PT
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Jim, I have no problems with recognizing the history of various religions, as long as its acknowledged that the unifying element in every problem is human weakness. There have certainly been plenty of atrocities done for power, lust, greed and just plain meanness that had nothing to do with religion.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 18, 2015 - 11:09am PT
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Note that the bizarre beliefs prevalent in BOTH the Koran and the Bible have provided justification down through the ages for BOTH Christians and Muslims visiting unspeakable atrocities on their fellow humans.
I'm curious which "bizarre beliefs" the Bible presents that justify Christian violence. About the only violence of which I'm aware was given allegorically by Jesus, "If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better to enter life with one eye than to be cast into hell with both, etc." The violence involved in the Exodus and conquest of Canaan was confined explicitly to that time and place.
The fact that Christians or Muslims commit antisocial acts doesn't mean that their religion condones or promotes those acts. As Larry Nelson opined on another thread, the intentional killing perpetrated by secular regimes headed by the likes of Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot might exceed the killing (intentional and otherwise) perpetrated in the name of religion from many previous centuries combined.
John
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 11:17am PT
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John- "I did not come to bring peace to the earth; I did not come to bring peace but a sword" (Matt. 10:34) for instance. People are also more than happy to quote the old testament. It's all the Bible, after all, and when you're looking for some sort of justification of what you want to do you won't have trouble finding it. I mean if people can convince themselves that buying their pastor a private jet is what Jesus wanted then I'm not sure how you can be so puzzled as to how they get a justification for war.
Surprisingly, Stalin and Hitler had nothing on many previous centuries. Genghis Khan, with none of the fancy bombs or bullets, killed 40 million+ people.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Nov 18, 2015 - 11:19am PT
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 18, 2015 - 12:27pm PT
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What does Australia have to do with this Monolith?
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Nov 18, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
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That Quote from John, yeah.
And: Christian Bibles contain both the Old and New Testaments. Many fundamentalist Christians pay close, close attention to the bloody, vengeful God of the Old Testament. To say nothing of their batshit readings of Revelation.
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