Xenophobia, racisim, ignorance, the usual mix used by......

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John M

climber

Nov 18, 2015 - 12:46pm PT

"I did not come to bring peace to the earth; I did not come to bring peace but a sword" (Matt. 10:34)

the sword Jesus is talking about here is the sword of Truth. It is not a physical sword.

10b4me

Mountain climber

Retired Climber

Nov 18, 2015 - 01:02pm PT

Excellent post JohnE

+1

and I agree somewhat with Rick, although the boots on the ground should be those of ME countries.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Nov 18, 2015 - 02:23pm PT

What is the "regressive left"?

Maajid Nawaz explains at Big Think...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2s_n6St1OI

perswig

climber

Nov 18, 2015 - 03:31pm PT

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=456459448

Thank you, Governor Inslee, for reminding us to include compassion and common sense in our decision-making.
Dale

(edit: heard this early AM. Reading the transcript, I'm quite sure he said "whole load of munitions" on ISIS, rather than what's printed; lest someone gets their panties twisted that the Wash Gov is advocating re-arm/resupply drops)

Stewart

Trad climber

Courtenay, B.C.

Nov 18, 2015 - 04:55pm PT

Hey Chaz: loved your comment about elected idiots - It was REAGAN and BUSH Sr. who masterminded the sale of weapons to IRAN in arguably the most appalling act of U.S. political treason of the 20th century. It is called Iran-Contra. Read all about it and learn something about your nation's history before you so casually toss dirt at Obama.

And the U.S. press, to its eternal disgrace more or less ignored this outrage.

By the way, the French government has announce that it will continue to shelter refugees...

The quality of mercy is not an earthly thing
It falleth as the gentle rain from Heaven
It twice blesseth
It blesseth him that gives
And him that receives

Forgive me if my Shakespeare quote isn't verbatim, but it sure is close enough for these purposes.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Nov 18, 2015 - 05:12pm PT

Stewart,

I know Ollie's sister. I taught his nephew to climb.

All you know is something you read, written by someone who wasn't there.

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Nov 18, 2015 - 05:38pm PT

aisal Saeed Al Mutar
November 15 at 4:27pm �
It must be incredibly frustrating as an Islamic terrorist not to have your views and motives taken seriously by the societies you terrorize, even after you have explicitly and repeatedly stated them. Even worse, those on the regressive left, in their endless capacity for masochism and self-loathing, have attempted to shift blame inwardly on themselves, denying the terrorists even the satisfaction of claiming responsibility.

It's like a bad Monty Python sketch:

"We did this because our holy texts exhort us to to do it."

"No you didn't."

"Wait, what? Yes we did..."

"No, this has nothing to do with religion. You guys are just using religion as a front for social and geopolitical reasons."

"WHAT!? Did you even read our official statement? We give explicit Quranic justification. This is jihad, a holy crusade against pagans, blasphemers, and disbelievers."

"No, this is definitely not a Muslim thing. You guys are not true Muslims, and you defame a great religion by saying so."

"Huh!? Who are you to tell us we're not true Muslims!? Islam is literally at the core of everything we do, and we have implemented the truest most literal and honest interpretation of its founding texts. It is our very reason for being."

"Nope. We created you. We installed a social and economic system that alienates and disenfranchises you, and that's why you did this. We're sorry."

"What? Why are you apologizing? We just slaughtered you mercilessly in the streets. We targeted unwitting civilians - disenfranchisement doesn't even enter into it!"

"Listen, it's our fault. We don't blame you for feeling unwelcome and lashing out."

"Seriously, stop taking credit for this! We worked really hard to pull this off, and we're not going to let you take it away from us."

"No, we nourished your extremism. We accept full blame."

"OMG, how many people do we have to kill around here to finally get our message across?"

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Nov 18, 2015 - 05:41pm PT

is it similarly frustrating to come off as a tw#t?

no seriously, post more yarblegarble. folks will read it next time. I think.

Stewart

Trad climber

Courtenay, B.C.

Nov 18, 2015 - 06:24pm PT

Chaz: how open minded of you to associate with the sister and nephew of a traitor to your nation. Anyone who is capable of objective judgement will agree that my statements are factual, and I clearly remember my assertions being reported by respectable media sources.

I invite all readers of this post to check out the events of the Iran-Contra scandal for themselves and form their own opinions. Ollie North was a traitor - he sold arms to Khomeini's Iranian government for money. That is what they call a FACT.

Hey TGT: What makes you think lefties are self-loathing? I'm proud of my beliefs and at least attempt to ensure that my opinions are backed up by facts. Fox news is not considered the source of objective insight by those with a functioning brain, so maybe if you could find rational sources for information you might actually start to display a glimmer of objective thought on occasion.

Still hoping that your Tea Party heroes get elected so that you can get a job in a concentration camp, TGT?

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.*

*Sinclair Lewis.

Stewart

Trad climber

Courtenay, B.C.

Nov 18, 2015 - 06:58pm PT

Gee... what kind of idiot would think that I stated that Ollie's nephew was culpable?

I actually commended Chaz for his open-mindedness.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber

Shetville , North of Los Angeles

Nov 18, 2015 - 07:20pm PT

Chaz...Was the nephew Peter North...?

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Nov 18, 2015 - 07:47pm PT

Andy. Different last name.

Yury

Mountain climber

T.O.

Nov 18, 2015 - 08:03pm PT

He is getting pressure from Iran not to react too harshly to ISIS also. Awesome, our prez taking orders from Iran.

Jody, please go to e.g. Wikipedia and read about Sunni and Shia. It would help you to better understand root causes of this conflict.

When talking about Middle East countries and organizations, you need to stop calling all of them Muslims, and start thinking in terms like Sunni, Shia, Alawites etc.

Stewart

Trad climber

Courtenay, B.C.

Nov 18, 2015 - 09:01pm PT

If I back-edited, I guess I did, but I had had no awareness that it was a big deal - I simply don't have the computer smarts (or interest) to remember every point that I'm responding to. I was unaware that this was a big deal.

That aside, read the words. I believe they were written in the English language.

I'll offer you an explanation that you certainly don't deserve, so here goes...

The kind of mind-set that Chaz represents doesn't hesitate to question the patriotism of those who disagree with them.

Ollie sold arms to the enemies of the United States, which makes him a traitor. I was marvelling at the fact that he would associate with Ollie's relatives. To assume that Ollie's relatives shared his warped values would be to utilize the same poor logic that would assume that all Muslims are terrorists.

I have watched numerous documentaries about the children and other relatives of war criminals who have devoted their lives to attempt to erase the stain on their families honour.

I know nothing about Ollie's sister or his nephew and, for all I know, they could be members of the Communist Party of the United States. I have no quarrel with either of them, unless they actually approved of Ollie selling weapons to the enemies of the United States.

If any of this is too complicated for you to understand, find an adult to explain it to you.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Nov 18, 2015 - 10:18pm PT

If Weinberger, McFarlane, Poindexter, Abrams, Fiers, George, and North were rotting in prison for treason as they should be then W and the neocons would never have gone to the lengths they did to start the Iraq War and we wouldn't be in the shitstorm we're in today as a result. His father's pardons were an enormous disservice to the nation and directly contributed to the current situation.

Larry Nelson

Social climber

Nov 19, 2015 - 07:51am PT

When Obama was elected, he inherited a situation not of his making, just as all new presidents do.

I remember Biden calling the situation in Iraq the administration's biggest foreign policy success.
What happened?

The consensus seems to be that ousting Saddam was a bad decision.
How was trying to oust Assad a better decision?
How was ousting Ghadaffi a better decision?

To lay the blame on previous administrations for every foreign policy failure has Harry Truman rolling over in his grave.

The ME is an alphabet soup of factions, cultures, grievances and corruption.
Stepping into it is costly and ignoring it is costly.
No easy answers there.

monolith

climber

state of being

Nov 19, 2015 - 08:07am PT

Iraq was relatively stable. Invading with faked up reasons (WMDs) is far different then aiding factions in countries already descended into civil war (Libya, Syria).

Not much anyone could have done to keep Iraq stable after we left, unless Hussein could have been resurrected.

Edit for DMT: I should have been clear, that I was referring to those upthread who claim our involvement in Libya and Syria was no different than what we did to Iraq.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Nov 19, 2015 - 09:01am PT

ISIS is doing more than selling oil. They're refining it too.

It's not rocket science, especially diesel.

"Syrians take up back yard refining of crude oil"

http://www.news.com.au/world/syrians-take-up-back-yard-refining-of-crude-oil/story-fndir2ev-1226623043801

They got to keep these running:

I'd love one of those Toyotas. I could do without the heavy machine gun mount, I'd put a shell on it. But for some reason, rugged, reliable, cheap, efficient diesel trucks can't be sold here.