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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 17, 2015 - 08:53am PT
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Yeah, a very good point guys, especially if the if the body count includes terrorist emigres at or before the time of the inevitable fraction of terrorist attack.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 17, 2015 - 09:19am PT
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Time to tear down the Statue of Liberty and send it back to France.
Edit:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 17, 2015 - 10:49am PT
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Time to tear down the Statue of Liberty and send it back to France.
This. ^^^
It's an unamerican cowardice and the essence of OBL winning.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 17, 2015 - 11:03am PT
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As someone with a first cousin who works on the front lines of the real refugee crisis - in Lebanon, where the population of the country has been increased by 2/3 with the influx of Syrian refugees, I offer the following:
Prior to the Syrian uncivil wars, its population was one of the most generally educated - if not the most generally educated - in the Middle East. The Syrian refugees reaching Lebanon are not, by and large, lifelong impoverished down-and-outers. They are middle class, well-educated people running for their lives. The closest analogy I can offer is refugees from Nazi-held territories in the late 1930's to 1945.
In that regard, the Christian Syrians - of which there is a rather larger number than most realize - are particularly at risk from ISIS. Putting them through the same screening as prudence would require for Islamic Syrian refugees makes as little sense as the Jewish quotas did in the 1930's and 40's. These people are in immediate, obvious risk of ghastly consequences. To the extent someone advocates for quicker entry for them, they simply acknowledge reality.
Most of the Islamic Syrian refugees are just as fearful, and with good reason, because they have a western orientation that ISIS is resolved to obliterate. The demagogues condemning all Syrians - or even all Syrian Muslims - exhibit a moral failure when they say "close the borders."
Unfortunately, though, those who say "treat all Syrians the same, regardless of their religious affiliation" prescribe something that makes as little sense as someone saying that a German Jew trying to flee Germany in 1939 was just as dangerous - or harmless - as any other German trying to enter the U.S. then. The risks, both to the refugees and to the U.S., differ.
Neither populist hysteria nor politically correct stupidity have any place right now. For the sake of millions of suffering people, we need to do what we can to get them to safety with all due haste. For the sake of innocents in the host countries, however, we need a rational vetting process to make sure we obtain the optimal amount of protection from the thugs who would poison humanity.
John
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 17, 2015 - 11:08am PT
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Good reality check John....
Syria, prior to this mess, was NOT Afghanistan and had many well educated and productive people.
Of course after we're done with another proxy invasion and disaster it'll resemble Afghanistan.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 17, 2015 - 11:11am PT
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Nice post, John. It's also important to note that at least 7 of the Paris terrorists were European National's. The validity of the Syrian passport found is in doubt.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Nov 17, 2015 - 11:23am PT
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Thanks for the post John. I appreciate the objective look/portrayal of this ugly reality from you POV. Man, how to vet a thug from a society/culture that most are unfamiliar with? How do we educate our society to welcome/deal/handle folks should they arrive? I am not so confident we could be the people we need to be and I hope I am wrong about that.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 17, 2015 - 11:36am PT
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That's the bigger issue I fear... realities of integration. The fact that it's a gov't funded intiative means it will be screwed up. Like when they dumped thousands of poor and uneducated Somalians into New Hampshire.
But for educated Syrians who can produce and are willing to contribute, I say bring 'em over. The harsh reality though is that millions of Syrians are going to be homeless after this brutal civil war that our country openly supported.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Nov 17, 2015 - 11:50am PT
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I agree fear and it our responsibility to help the folks that are displaced/have had their collective lives f#@$edup due in part to our actions.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 17, 2015 - 11:59am PT
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But the last thing we need here are huge camps of gov't funded uneducated non-English speaking charity cases. We have our own cities filled with that. That'd be no good for us and no good for them either. I have to wonder though if that's the long term plan. More division, more violence, artificially create us vs. them BS.
Better yet, let's take out the garbage in Washington that creates these messes.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Nov 17, 2015 - 12:17pm PT
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I agree, we can't even take care of our own and within our society and we create divisions so we don't have to. If we took care of the common man like we do the entitled already well off man we'd be getting somewhere as a society; yet we are even afraid to do just that. The more we are divided the easier it is to keep us in flock. For starters, what percentage of my taxes go to the very rich nation of Isreal vs. folks struggling here, like maybe veterans for starters... Screw that, just wave a flag one day and tell that one legged guy on the street...Thank you!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 17, 2015 - 12:26pm PT
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My own thought was that Syrian refugees could help revive Detroit's economy. There is already a substantial Arabic population there, who could help them integrate. It couldn't hurt to have an influx of well-educated and generally hardworking people coming to the area.
John
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Nov 17, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
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agree and with this kind of thinking some other areas of our country could be teased out that could use some touching up too... no pun unless you laugh.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Nov 17, 2015 - 01:53pm PT
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Donini - some day we'll beat it. We're moving in that direction. Reality will tell us the right balance of altruism and greed. Patience :-)
HFCS - it's our greatest strength. Throw the sh#t against the wall (or at each other) and see what shitty belief sticks. Believe the sh#t like it's really true. Damn our evolutionary ancestors for being so successful! I could have been a polar bear.
Fear, I think more and more that us vs them is just the natural way of humans, whether it's us white people enslaving black people, or us the masses kicking out them the politicians. It's as tough a nut to crack in ourselves as it is for other people.
For me personally, I'll be happy when my son no longer wants to kill me and can be released from protective custody at the psychiatric hospital to come home to live with us. People's brains tell them to believe all kinds of crazy sh#t. I'm learning to have a harder time hating and condemning them for it, but it's a slow process :-)
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Nov 17, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
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Well it's all nice of you guise to say so, but the internep is full of stuff like so. I am sending some of it to friends in Germany to see if it is for realz. I'm sure this child will grow up forget all about it, and have a nice balanced view of the world.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=164_1441617119
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Nov 17, 2015 - 04:41pm PT
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Jim: Your OP + 1.
I've also got to add that it beggars belief to believe that anyone could be so mentally constipated as to believe that Obama takes orders from Iran, or that Iran has anything other than an intense hatred of ISIS.
Turn off Fox news and go back to school, children.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2015 - 06:41pm PT
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The Repugnant Party is playing to the lowest common denominator of the American electorate and the media is cynically playing along ever mindful of their ratings and totally indifferent to quality reporting.
We have committed to a paltry 10,000 Syrian refugees, Canada has committed to 25,000 and they have one tenth of our population.
We have the toughest vetting of immigrants in the world and the danger from refugees we approve is minimal.
The Repugs know this (their stupidity has limits) but they are playing to the fears of an unsophistcated, ignorant electorate.....read, the people who vote for them.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 17, 2015 - 08:47pm PT
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Thanks to all with positive posts. JE! Yours was most informative.
I just posted this on my Idaho Facebook page with JE's & Jim Brennen's inspiration.
Is it Time to tear down the Statue of Liberty and send it back to France? Or, can we, suddenly fearful, Americans live up to our nation's legacy?
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 17, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
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Fritz, if we continue with our stupidity we won't have to tear down lady liberty, it will be blown up. In world war II we didn't say to the nazi's and japanese to send to our shores your warriors. So why in the hell should we invite in these refugees who have proven in Paris to have been infiltrated by terrorists among the ranks of the disposessed and homeless. They are better off in safe zones near their homelands and fighting for their own liberty.
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