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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Nov 16, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
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Jim you accidentally created a politard thread.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Nov 16, 2015 - 07:58pm PT
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Healjye...why not Hicksville...?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:05pm PT
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Bush is retired. Obama has been at the controls and chose to continue de-stablising the middle east. I figured it would take 6 months for attacks to start occurring in Europe. It has taken far less.
No, Obama and the world inherited this shti storm and the minute we pulled out of Iraq it took on a life of it's own in the form of now unconstrained sectarian violence and the wave of Arab Spring which was entirely of the region. No one, not Obama, not Putin, not the EU had any control over the events once the sh#t storm started and we still don't.
It's just not the sort of genie you politely ask to go back into the bottle once you're stupid enough to invite it into your living room and it's not the sort of genie you can easily force back into the bottle because we, in our infinite wisdom, broke the bottle.
Why not Hicksville?
Well, with regard to Hickstanistan, the whole affair is easily summed up and visualized this way. When you think of W and the Neocons you only need to conjure up the image of Burt Reynolds & co. in 'Deliverance' - naively seemed like a good idea at the time, but they really had no idea who they were dealing with or what they were up against. The main difference here being the ass f*#king is going to go on a LOT longer.
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c wilmot
climber
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
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No, Obama and the world inherited this
Obama helped overthrow several countries since Bush including Libya and Egypt and has attempted the same in Syria.
These regime changes had NOTHING to do with the Iraq wars.
And they have been predictably disastrous.
technically the west is violating its own international laws in aiding "rebels" who are attempting to overthrow a sovereign nation
the US has admitted to spending 500 million to aid the "rebels" in Syria- And that is only the amount they admit to....
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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:16pm PT
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c wilmot
climber
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
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Bush personally released him?
Interesting....
Even more so considering he was living in a small room in a mosque at the time and was not considered to be an extremist
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
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Obama helped overthrow several countries since Bush including Libya and Egypt and has attempted the same in Syria. These regime changes had NOTHING to do with the Iraq wars.
Seriously? I mean, seriously? You can't be this inanely stupid. They had everything to do with the Iraq war and Obama didn't have squat to do with the initiation of the attempts to topple these regimes. In fact, the speed of it caught the US, Russia and the EU totally by surprise as the thinking was these events would play out over a decade, not ten months. Once events were in motion all three struggled mightily with how to respond, how to be even remotely relevant to the events already underway on the ground, and how to get out in front of the curve in any way after being caught flat-footed. Nothing about our ham-handed response was unique to Obama or the US other than being the direct consequence of our actions in the region and our complicity in the deliberate inaction around the Palestinian / Israeli problem.
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c wilmot
climber
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:24pm PT
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Just call me "xenophobic" and get er done....^
Of just claim this a "safe space" off limits for those with different ideas on reality
Or you can continue your keyboard war and call me stupid....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
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Ok, you got me there - my apologies.
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c wilmot
climber
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:31pm PT
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I apologize too. I am amped up on caffeine after being iced out on the road....Being passive aggressive is no good either-my bad
Sometimes I get a little to vested in subjects.I try to not post but got sucked in...
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
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Hey DUMBASS NORTON, FACT CHECK!!!
The Pentagon says that Mr. Baghdadi, after being arrested in Falluja in early 2004, was released that December with a large group of other prisoners deemed low level. But Hisham al-Hashimi, an Iraqi scholar who has researched Mr. Baghdadi’s life, sometimes on behalf of Iraqi intelligence, said that Mr. Baghdadi had spent five years in an American detention facility where, like many ISIS fighters now on the battlefield, he became more radicalized. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/world/middleeast/us-actions-in-iraq-fueled-rise-of-a-rebel.html?_r=0
I tend to believe the Iraqi scholar over any DOD very vague low level detention records.
Pretty amazing how on JIM DONINI's recent trip to Turkey, of which his profile picture is taken, since he cares so much about these Refugee's, that he did not make an effort to go down to northern Jordan and see what he could do humanitarian wise at any of the 32 UN Syrian Refugee Camps located there. Hell, even make arrangements to adopt any one of the thousands of young Syrian orphans and bring them home with him.
Hmmmm.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:46pm PT
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JodyHe is getting pressure from Iran not to react too harshly to ISIS also. Awesome, our prez taking orders from Iran.
You do realize that both Iran and Assad are Shia, and thus considered infidels by the Sunni ISIS. Iran may have its issues, but cuddling up to ISIS isn't one of them.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 16, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
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He is getting pressure from Iran not to react too harshly to ISIS also. Awesome, our prez taking orders from Iran.
Again, seriously? That's a completely delusional statement. They are bitter enemies and I'm guessing it's a tough for IS to decide whether it's us or iran which are the great satan. And really, if we were to judge based on who benefited from the Iraq war you'd pretty much have to conclue that W and the neocons were hand-picked paid agents of either Iran or China or that they just decided to sell us out to both.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 16, 2015 - 10:25pm PT
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Buddha say:
We are all dust
we are all the great satin
we maketh the doody with much smell, all.
Society anser:
Coprophagia
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 16, 2015 - 10:54pm PT
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Like any good idea it's one size fits all...coughbulshitcough
Yeah.. right... like America can't do better than that.
I f*#king guarantee there are more Syrians that would be good for this country that we should be TRYING to get to come here than there are Syrian refugees that would attack america.
150 people get killed dramatically unlike the several thousand who died that day (undramatically) and the world acts like it's ending...
GROW UP>> BECOME THE BRAVE PEOPLE YOU PRETEND TO BE.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Nov 17, 2015 - 06:50am PT
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(Tongue inserted in cheek)
If the left thinks we have too many bitter clingers in this country now, why invite in a different type of bitter clinger?
Just sayin.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 17, 2015 - 08:43am PT
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We should round up all the Syrian immigrants and put them in internment camps. It's the american way.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 17, 2015 - 08:47am PT
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Hddj posted this in the apocalypse thread. I thought this was a good point:
Right now we accept 30,000 gun related deaths a year as the price of widespread gun ownership. The idea that if a Syrian came over, grabbed a few guns and killed some people would be a failure of our refugee program as opposed to an expected outcome of our choices is ridiculous.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Nov 17, 2015 - 08:48am PT
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The choices we make,
the conclusions we draw
never cease to amaze.
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