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lars johansen
Trad climber
West Marin, CA
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Apr 15, 2015 - 02:55pm PT
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Absolutely no to SNM!
lars
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 15, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
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WTF???? Nothing needs to change up there. There is very little logging, hell very few people even go up there. And if it becomes a monument think of the ranger prescience...Ug...
Doubt this will go anywhere though.
EDIT
Geographic Wonders: Fresno Dome, Piyau Dome, Arch Rock, Globe Rock, the Niche, Shuteye Peak, Iron Lakes, Star Lakes
Not sure how Globe Rock and Arch Rock (not to be confused with Arch Rock at the 140 intance to the valley) are "Geographic Wonders"...
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Apr 15, 2015 - 03:44pm PT
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^^^^ likely just a spelling or auto correct error.
Sometimes you just have to go for the communicative intent.
Susan
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 15, 2015 - 04:07pm PT
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Yeah, my um, spelling is, a little, um, poor.
Misspellers of the world untied :)
EDIT,
But if you want some integrals solved I could be useful...
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Apr 15, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
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No map.
Mushy copy.
Not a good pitch.
I'm always willing to support a good pitch.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Apr 16, 2015 - 06:13am PT
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I can't tell you how much I HATE this idea. We don't need more over-paid administrators, rangers, pavement, kiosks. They'll keep me from taking my dog, which is already true for a huge percentage of the Sierras. NO. NO. NO.
BAd
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 17, 2015 - 10:22am PT
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Very tough crowd, Deanna.
That said, it is a great opportunity to enlist some very intelligent and active people in the local community.
Need thick skin, though.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 17, 2015 - 11:47am PT
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I wasn't aware that ceding control to state or county officials was on the table, DMT. The issue is whether the Forest Service or the Park Service should administer the area. Those of us who currently oppose the proposal generally like the area as it is, and need to see a demonstrated need for change. Thus far, the proponents of the Monument failed to articulate such a need.
As Ken said, we are a tough crowd, because we know the area, and don't listen to platitudes lacking specificity.
And Paul articulates the concern perfectly. Just because such a monument is not currently on the President's list doesn't mean it won't be created during this administration.
John
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Apr 17, 2015 - 11:59am PT
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I still think handing public lands to the states is a publicity stunt and not a real threat. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope not
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Apr 17, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
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That is what I originally thought too, crabster. I honestly doubt it, but worse things have happened.
EDIT:
What kind of publicity would the 'Pubs expect from this?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 17, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
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While I enjoyed the chance to get an ad for Spas of Montana, the issue at hand (viz. the proposed monument) has nothing to do with changing ownership of the relevant land. That land belongs to the federal government, regardless of whether the NPS or the Forest Service administers it. It doesn't matter which agency has jurisdiction, if the political clout is great enough, it can get transferred elsewhere (see Hetch Hetchy, history of).
The movement for transferring title from the feds to the state therefore remains a red herring relative to the National Forest vs. National Monument debate.
John
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Alcy
Social climber
Central Valley, CA
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Apr 17, 2015 - 10:30pm PT
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Ran across this thread while looking up the SNMP. I did the insanely boring thing of listening to the Madera County Board of Supervisor's meeting from April 14th You can find this at
http://www.madera-county.com/index.php/boardmain/topvideo
Great bedtime story material. Here's the gist [EDITMY INTERPRETATION], and I was a little surprised.
 They were very much kicked into gear by the Monument proposal being made at REI.
Little regard for frogs and toad
Re-landscape the forest Get rid of 50% of the trees(during the REI protest this number was at 75% and during the BOS meeting they were throwing out a lot of numbers.
Have a logging company bid on this work. (doesn't this imply big trees being taken out since no logging company will pay to take out just small trees?)
Form a 3 county coalition to re-write the forest service contract, using Fresno, Madera and Mariposa counties as the agencies *managing* the forest.
Apparently this makes it more difficult to sue since funds for legal fees are not reimbursed.
All this re-landscaping the forest generates a bunch of water for the valley since the trees aren't drinking it.
Next step is to get the 3 counties to write an MOU to take back the forest management. Sounded like Fresno was on board, and Mariposa they were not so sure
The presenter made questionable statements (IMO) about rules in the monument regarding things like, no staying up after dark except in your own campsite, no hunting, no dispersed camping. (to my knowledge Carrizo Plains and Sequoia NM allow these activities).
One supervisor suggested that re-landscaping the forest would make animal life more abundant.
I detected a sense of urgency from them to move forward quickly.
Just wanted to share this info, maybe it's useful for someone. I know for many of you, it's about rocks, and getting to those rocks, so maybe this isn't a priority.
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On-Site Flasher 69
Sport climber
Riverside
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Apr 18, 2015 - 01:14am PT
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Rocks are a priority, but a healthy eco-system is most important. Tree reduction in the Sierra is the hot topic, but i don't understand how 50-75% less trees will benefit the forest ecology. Seems way too dramatic. How does the monument project tie into this?
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Apr 18, 2015 - 07:57am PT
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Alcy thanks for posting that link. So frikin funny that they think cutting trees will fill the reservoirs. Madera county...LOL.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2015 - 12:30pm PT
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The perspective of managing a "healthy" forest was quite interesting given how much water trees consume. I don't know if that would make a difference in our reservoirs or not as I haven't read through this report in it's entirety.
Here's the report: http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr220/
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Alcy
Social climber
Central Valley, CA
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Apr 19, 2015 - 08:23am PT
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Thanks for the link Paul. I do think we need forest management with the intent of maintaining a healthy forest. The report had some interesting info and a good reality check:
"All of these strategies acknowledge the influence of climate change and suggest management may fail if focused on re-creating past stand conditions using strict structural targets".
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