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On-Site Flasher 69
Sport climber
Riverside
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Apr 23, 2015 - 11:15am PT
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Bump!
For more answers!
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Alcy
Social climber
Central Valley, CA
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Apr 23, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
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Well On-Site, I'll take a stab, but probably not quite what you were looking for.
Just a follow-up from same Concerned Citizens group giving an intro to the Mariposa County Board of Supervisors. Pretty short and sweet talk tailored to Mariposa with the intent of gaining another audience with the Board (which they did and scheduled for May 12).
Frogs and toads were not mentioned (a wise move since people in Mariposa actually do like frogs and toads). Also, the monument project was not mentioned.
Basic points:
 Establish a tri-county commission with 5 members (two of them assemblymen)
Avoid EAJA lawsuits since Mariposa would be managing the USFS, and Mariposa is not federal.
Follows a 2003 Bush plan. (I have no idea if this is good or bad, but my initial reaction is to puke… LOL)
Unclear items to me (probably will get addressed at the full presentation):
How does all this re-landscaping get paid for. Mariposa doesn't have a lot of money.
What's the scope of the tri-county commission. Is it just trees, or does it cover other resource areas as well.
I have to admit, this quick talk sounded much more palatable than the Madera BOS one. And Mariposa is under a pretty big threat from bark beetles.
reference: Find the Mariposa BOS web site, and jump to the meeting minutes for Apr 21. Audio starts at 51:40.
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On-Site Flasher 69
Sport climber
Riverside
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Apr 23, 2015 - 10:36pm PT
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Thanks Alcy, I don't understand how this group of "concerned citizens" pertains to the monument initiative. I'm guessing they are part of the anti-monument movement?
Mariposa's bark beetle problem is looking very bad. Most of the really bad areas are on BLM and SNF lands. Nothing seems to be getting done about it.
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Alcy
Social climber
Central Valley, CA
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Apr 24, 2015 - 07:43am PT
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I'm guessing they are part of the anti-monument movement?
Most definitely!
From Concerned Cititizen's own Facebook page. "We will continue our objective to bring back local control of the Sierra National Forest, thereby putting more water into our aquifer, and reducing catastrophic wildfires."
Perhaps this anti-monument crowd will just rename it to Sierra COUNTY Forest.
On a KMJ radio program with CC, the hosts were joking about having all this extra water and replacing trees in the mountains with almond trees in the valley. It's a little too close to the truth for me. And sidestepping EAJA makes it much more difficult to provide accountability on forest management.
I have no trust in flatland counties managing *our* NATIONAL forests!
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Apr 24, 2015 - 07:56am PT
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In general, I am hoping to get the forest to be managed for people and wildlife, so that the forest stays healthy and people stay happy. That's probably not as specific as you want, but feel free to ask a specific question, and I will do my best to answer.
Best regards,
Deanna
Crickets.
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Alcy
Social climber
Central Valley, CA
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Apr 24, 2015 - 08:24am PT
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counties aren't held to the NEPA Process, so maybe they could get some stuff done
Fix the process..... as tree density goes up, regulations go down.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Apr 24, 2015 - 08:45am PT
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It is all about slicking.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Apr 24, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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Way back when they were doing info meetings for the Monument I went to one in Visalia. I figured it would be good to save this place that was pretty much ruled by lumber barons who had done lots of clear cuts already in the upper Kern area. You can see them when your at Dome Rock. And of course all the motor bikes flying by like bumble bees in a swarm are a concern. So, I went and as I came to the entrance I had to go through a Metal Detector. This should have been my first clue to split! Then, after I went back to my car to put my swiss army knife away , once inside, the perimeter was surrounded by Police! This was clue 2. It was a Convention Center and they were expecting quite a crowd. They had all the seats separated into left and right...pro and con. I looked over at the 'Pro' area to where I was going to sit, figured somewhere up by the front as I planned to talk if they let me. I got there early and there was only 4 chubby deadhead looking guys a couple with tie dye shirts sitting on the pro side already. I went over by them and got comfortable. I noticed the other 'Con' side filling up pretty quick. Lots of Ranchers, Lumberman, Packers, Home Owners, Rednecks and people in suits were filling up the 'Con' side and on our side it was still only us! Our side Never filled up much past the few I mentioned and the other side had like 200 folks all loud and looking at us like...you dumb f...ks. Afer they jeered at a pro speaker pretty boldly I felt really uncomfortable pretty fast and started planning my departure. To think that I was going to give a speech was way out of the question, it was getting out with my life that was on my mind! So, this subject is a Hot Button Topic! I hope that the place stays out of the timber industries hands. Leaving it up to them to decide which cuts to make is the wrong move, I don't care how nice they are! Pro or Con.........I don't know any more.
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Apr 24, 2015 - 09:41am PT
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I love how loggers are always the evil clear cut guys. They have no say in what timber they get to cut. They bid on sales that the Forest Service mark.
Another good one is when a Sierra Club guy becomes your neighbor and tells you his thoughts about logging. Then builds a custom house with a wrap around wood deck, wood siding, and oversize wood beams. Seriously?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 24, 2015 - 09:50am PT
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Reading the posts on this thread to date disappoints me, because I see no hope for any real dialog. The arguments have more in common with religion than management of public lands. It particularly frightens me that the people making the decision have no real accountability to those of us who use the land in question, and the law and politics provide no effective way to overrule their decision.
John
P.S.: My thoughts exactly, This Just In.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Apr 24, 2015 - 10:20am PT
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This year there are lots of trees dying from bugs and other factors more than ever in our area. Not just a few trees but lots and lots! Ponderosa pines mainly. You look up in the park and see brown and dead trees. More than I saw last year by far!! So, they are logging them out. Not the park, but the communities in the foothills like Pinehurst and Squaw valley. I'm for this for sure! Logging is not all bad.
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On-Site Flasher 69
Sport climber
Riverside
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Apr 24, 2015 - 10:50am PT
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We need a better managed forest, but who will do it? I will not trust this tri-county commission, but our forest service is not getting much done. I wonder what this NM initiative will have to offer?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 24, 2015 - 11:20pm PT
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Quite to the contrary, DMT. I don't like the forest mismanagement practices dictated from Washington D.C. and the let-them-eat-cake puppet masters who control them, but I very much like how the Forest Service manages recreation, and overall, I enjoy the Sierra National Forest as is.
John
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Apr 25, 2015 - 10:02am PT
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JE... Me too.
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The Real Mad Dog
Gym climber
Napa, CA
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Apr 27, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
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I've been teaching college-level environmental science since 1994, and began environmental work some 30 years earlier. That said, I was dead set against the Sierra N.M. in the first place. Giant sequoias are protected; they never were in danger (except several on private land). The N M was created by Clinton for one purpose only: to get more environmental voters (loggers tend not to vote) so that Gore would edge out Bush. That's it. (No, I am not a Republican.)
So, California logging was diminished, the price of lumber rose, as did the price of new houses. This increased rental rates, stressing out the poor and causing some to become homeless. (But good for us who own homes, since our property values increased.)
Pinnacles National Monument is another disaster. It is only worthy of State Park status (sorry), but now is a National Park. Why? To attract more tourists! God Almighty! There already were far too many tourists (and climbers?) before 2012. Many old folks in their motor homes have little else to do than visit EVERY national park in the lower 48 states. Another bad idea created by environmental illiterates and the good leaders of Soledad and Monterey County. Perhaps we should make Yosemite Valley a World Shrine to be visited by all before they die, so they can see it in its pristine state. Sure.
The Really Mad Dog
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jul 10, 2015 - 11:34am PT
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Berryessa Snow Mountain apparently just got Monument Status.
Guess we'll get a parking lot and some interpretive signs, eh?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 10, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
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I love how loggers are always the evil clear cut guys. They have no say in what timber they get to cut. They bid on sales that the Forest Service mark. I'm not sure whether you mean that loggers don't get to pick where they clear cut, or whether they are supposed to only log marked trees. Surely, however, you cannot be claiming that loggers do not clear cut. That would be false. Clear cutting is clearly the norm. I walked through several patches in the Upper Tule area. There was a large patch on the hike in to Hermit Spire that was practically scorched earth: no trees, some stumps and lots of really flammable detritus. Loggers did that. Just one of many areas like that. We were looking at lots in Ponderosa and while back and the realtor let us know that the local logging company had been hired to "clear" a building sites on a few lots in the area, and she showed us a couple. All the nice, mature trees had been cut, without any effort to limit it to a buildable pad, and they left all the crud in a six foot tall pile in the middle of the lot. Just like elsewhere, they take the trees and leave the crap behind.
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Hoots
climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jul 11, 2015 - 07:22am PT
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I was hoping for clearer answers too, but now that I see that Double-Rainbow Guy is on their Board of Advisors, I am sold. Double-Rainbow for the WIN!
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