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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Apr 13, 2015 - 09:41pm PT
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Sierra National Monument Project facebook page: 197 likes
Stop the Sierra National Monument facebook group: 2,187 members
It's too bad, like Ed pointed out, these numbers don't really matter if a president wants to designate a Monument...
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Apr 14, 2015 - 08:19am PT
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...I don't Facebook. Shame that many things are done there [FB] and only there.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Apr 14, 2015 - 08:28am PT
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...I don't Facebook. Shame that many things are done there [FB] and only there.
Me to......
But then again, I am against anything that gives up our free land over to a bunch of professional control freaks..... Federal ones to boot.
Just say no to the monuments.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 14, 2015 - 09:50am PT
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...we're going to build a place that connects people and wildlife.
WTF??
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 14, 2015 - 10:39am PT
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Ed sets forth the reason so many of us who live near the area fear any Monument proposal. We have zero clout with the current administration, but those who live thousands of miles away, and never met a monument they didn't like (unless it interferes with their lives) pretty much dictate what this administration will do. I, for one, chose to live here precisely because of its proximity to the southern Sierra west of the crest. I greatly resent the possibility of the one-size-misfits-all imposition of a quasi-religious land use scheme on an area being administered quite nicely (other than the mandated forest mismanagement, with its yearly conflagrations that add pollution to our already compromised air).
John
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 14, 2015 - 11:18am PT
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I have had a minor working relationship with the Director of this effort, and it gave me the opportunity to have a bit of an extended conversation with her on the matter.
As I understood it, the major issue at hand is logging and "industrial" uses of the forest (undefined), which are to be eliminated.
I believe that she has the best of intentions, but I didn't get the sense that the organizational skills and explanations were present to make progress in the direction envisioned.
BTW, I support logging of the area.
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Apr 14, 2015 - 11:42am PT
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They cut down a whole bunch of huge Red Firs along the road to Clover Meadow last summer. Looked like logging to me.
I'm not at all against logging in the SNF. it's not a healthy forest now, too many trees per acre and severe drought and bark beetle infestations. Not sure why they were cutting down healthy looking hundreds of years old Red Firs though.
I don't think this Sierra National Monument thing has a chance. There's too much opposition, or there will be when all the user groups get wind of the idea. Right now it appears that the main group opposing the monument is that facebook group, but they are ideolocically bent to the right and I'd never stand with them for a second. Did anyone watch that video? I did...LOL! They link the monument plan with Obama and AGENDA 21!!!!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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SuperDW
Sport climber
California
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Apr 14, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
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Hi all -
I am the director of this project. You are right - I am not a web site designer. So I did what I could with a go daddy site - very true. Primarily, I've been doing the grassroots work - which has been talking with people on a one on one basis for about a year and half. I spend a lot of my time in the area and have for the last couple of decades. It's means a lot to me to be able to camp there, and I enjoy the open rugged nature, which make it so different from the parks.
In general, I am hoping to get the forest to be managed for people and wildlife, so that the forest stays healthy and people stay happy. That's probably not as specific as you want, but feel free to ask a specific question, and I will do my best to answer.
Best regards,
Deanna
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Apr 14, 2015 - 03:10pm PT
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Hi Deanna, thanks for joining in!
What, specifically, is one thing that needs to be changed about how the SNF is currently managed that will be solved by it becoming a monument?
Thanks,
-Daniel
PS: I used the same template on my free site so I think it looks fine :) http://www.sekiclimbing.com/
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 14, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
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the San Gabriel Monument has only one productive feature.
A monument to a politician's ego.
They are already putting in stop lights just past the San Gabriel dam.
So now I'll have to pack my geezer pass for my semi weekly workout bike rides. Then stop and produce the pass and a photo Id for the kid in the smokey hat just like J Tree.
Everyone else gets to pay to play.
Suckers!
Well, I guess it will cut down on traffic and drunk illegal aliens.
These crackpots are not your friends!
A fixed anchor, chalk marks, approach trails and bike tracks offend them as much as a logged tree.
If they have their way the roads into the Needles, Shuteye and every minor crag will be closed.
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Apr 14, 2015 - 04:56pm PT
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It's means a lot to me to be able to camp there, and I enjoy the open rugged nature, which make it so different from the parks.
Then why are you trying to make it more like the parks?
In general, I am hoping to get the forest to be managed for people and wildlife, so that the forest stays healthy and people stay happy
Ken mentioned above that you want to shutdown logging. You are a couple decades late. If you truly cared about a healthy forest, you'd support the reintroduction of logging to the area. Take a drive and look at what the French Fire did. Burnt sticks for miles and miles. I've already stated above what the drought and pine beetles have done. I've lived here for thirty years and have never seen the forests look this bad. We need to log the dead out, so the healthy trees can survive.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 15, 2015 - 12:18am PT
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Thanks for joining the conversation, Deanna. As several others have requested, I, too, want to know what your group intends to change about the area.
Thanks.
John
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Apr 15, 2015 - 11:12am PT
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Comments are now blocked on their FB page with many comments not 100% in favor deleted. The total lack of transparency and discourse will kill it.
Never have answered the question why with an intelligent answer. Stopping extraction? What, they plan on removing all the hydro infrastructure? Stopping logging would be a huge mistake.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 15, 2015 - 11:26am PT
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Julia, it appears that opposition to logging, and little if nothing else, unites them. The platitudes, opacity and inability to articulate a need for change would doom the proposal in a rational world, but in our modern political world, then needs and wants of the Administration matter; nothing else does.
John
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Apr 15, 2015 - 11:41am PT
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eKat, since they say west and south of Yosemite, include the Kings River watershed and say that the area is over 500,000 acres on their website I think they want to turn all of the forest that is not already wilderness into a monument. The entire SNF, including the wilderness, is 1.3 million acres.
Edit: just updated my statement to exclude the widlerness
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Apr 15, 2015 - 11:55am PT
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I posted a link to this thread. Probably how Deanna found us. She must have blocked me for it.
Somehow I can't see any comments posted before that time, like or comment. I did not violate her posting guidelines. I just wanted to know what prompted this move. (NM status)
Maybe if I knew more I'd change my views.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Apr 15, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
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Here's a reason listed on that Facebook page for supposedly why a national monument will help:
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/5/1458.abstract
Compared the entire state in the 1930s to today and found less big trees.
It does not say anything specific about what Sierra Nat. Forest could do, and it is a large leap of logic to assume a Nat. Monument would help.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Apr 15, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
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"It's means a lot to me to be able to camp there, and I enjoy the open rugged nature, which make it so different from the parks."
So you want to turn the area over to the park service? Makes zero sense.
I'm thinking there are ulterior motives afoot. Like a padded resume and/or bank account.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Apr 15, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
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I'm beyond confused when I look at their FB page.
Lots of big words and "high standards for comments" I was told.
Better places to spend my time than figure out what they are up to.
Someone here can give me the Cliffs Note version when they know what's happening.
Thanks. Susan
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