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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 17, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
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oh supertopo;.......must be friday night posting while drunk.
Maybe I can help sort some of this out....
I am personal friends with Olga and Carlos, who run Rock Climb Every Day. I have climbed with them and had an awesome time climbing with them.
Yes, they are a new company;....everyone has to start somewhere. I believe their guide company and services offered are awesome and wonderful;..they love climbing, are passionate about their quest and journey, and have lots to share. I believe that the people they have taken out climbing have loved their experiences with them and could tell you all about it! Olga and Carlos are "easy targets" for the supertopo lynch mob because they young, new, less experienced than the old guard, and up-and comers are easy prey;.....it's obvious while reading these posts.
I also was the one who climbed Whodunnit with Olga and Carlos;..they were strong , confident, safe, and yeah;..I did lead most of the pitches;...mainly on my request because it was their first time on Tahquitz;...NOT because they were incompetant or lacking in anything other than familiarity.......(just wanted to put that out....).....
anyways;.....I usually don't have much to say word wise on supertopo;...I mainly stick to just posting pics with a few words for captions...
I support Olga and Carlos and their company, wish them nothing but good luck and good fortune, and appreciate their awesome attitudes towards sharing their love and psyche for climbing.........I look forward to climbing with them more this year, and look forward to watching their climbing business grow, mature, and prosper. I'm sure if you have a legit beef with them or their business, they would gladly chat with you about it;..they are very up-beat and kind people who I consider my friends.
As for comments by rlf;.....most of you know;...he's a gnarly old school dude with a zillion guiding days;....if you are the new kid on the block;...consider it a "compliment" that you are being giving the "once over" by "the establishment"........(don't take it personal;.....he's rough and tumble with everyone;....and we wouldn't have it any other way.....would we....)..........
As for Locker;.....everything he says is gospel......word......
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carlos ortiz
Trad climber
calif
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Oct 17, 2014 - 10:31pm PT
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We love climbing and dont mind sharing our passion for the sport. Thanks Todd for being "real". Here's to climbing together again. So Happy!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 18, 2014 - 04:51am PT
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I like Bob Gains .....
I, like Bob Gains, have now got quite a tummy.
I am sure this; my belly is karmic, because thirty years ago I questioned Bob's size
As well as a number of other great older climbers whose love of the good life,
heavy food, cheese, wine and beer had changed their phisychs (Physics + physiques)
From young Adonis to near Santa like size,
These are the gods of climbing, I am talking about
as they had aged some had grown, even become fat
I was a sprite, not much more than a shadow of my current self back in the day
Kor could have and did, knock me over when he exhaled
Bruce Hawkins stepped over me while I clung to holds below his need and he climbed right over me laughing and leaving me in Buttermilk dust.
There are some other similarities that Bob and I share, beyond our changing from
Hard men to hard men of sizable girth.
He guided rock climbing and so did I
He was friends with Todd Gordon, and way back when, so was I.
((hi Todd good to get the chance to finally say hello where did all your Great JTree pics go??))
As many have posted some very harsh barbs aimed at this new guide service,
I watched it ramp up to out of control.
At first I used restraint, then after a fast search and following this thread right into the fray I posted my best shot.
Not as mean as some.
but I regret ending my post with an unkind
right cross to the head
of the poorly (IMHO)named new group calling it self wrecked; well really RCED.
So Olga and Carlos I apologize
Good luck it is gonna be tuff.
Stay away from the Cheese Burgers, pizza and beer.
not all of us, like kamps did, keep, our vigor for all the long years ... cheers
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 05:53am PT
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With all due respect Todd, the issue at hand here is not whether or not their nice people. I'm sure their nice people. "Sharing their love of climbing" with others, and charging for it is another thing. They are clearly running an illegitimate guiding service. We pay taxes is double talk for we're not permitted anywhere.
Again the liability insurance is a real big one. The guide service industry is growing. Land managers are starting to crack down on guide services that aren't permitted. There has been a lot of pirate guiding in the past several years. Here in JT, they have been asking to see guides permits. All's it's going to take is one bad accident from a "guide school " with no permits and it's going to impact us all.
If they want to run a guide school, fine. Do it properly.
Sorry folks but the days of wandering into the local eatery or pub to find a guide are over. We're under scrutiny and people like this are not helping.
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2014 - 06:27am PT
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Uh, contrare...... more like A GENERAL INQUIRY INTO REALITY thread.
While Olga and Carlos Ortiz maybe up-beat and kind and new at their day jobs, that doesn't legitimize running a pirate guide service, without the required permits, as rlf has stated. That's being "real."
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
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Hey, I wish them the best of luck too. Just do it legitimately. Get the insurance, get the permits. More power to you.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 18, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
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^^^^
Here, here.
It's incredibly frustrating to run a guide service legitimately, with all required operating permits, liability insurance, proper classification of employees (not as Independent Contractors), and have to compete against the dozens of pirates (knowingly or ignorantly) that run around the crags these days.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
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It's incredibly frustrating to run a guide service legitimately, with all required operating permits, liability insurance, proper classification of employees (not as Independent Contractors), and have to compete against the dozens of pirates (knowingly or ignorantly) that run around the crags these days.
I really would not want Mark's job (my boss). He put's up with a lot of garbage. As a general rule, we go out, have a good time with the clients, get tipped and go home.
Notice how there is still the sound of crickets concerning any of the very direct questions?
Sorry Todd, and I appreciate your efforts to diffuse this. But are you really going to try and convince me that they are strong climbers but were on unfamiliar terrain is an excuse? Let's think about this for a second. How many of us have gone to areas we were completely new to and had no problems leading our share of a route?. Hell, the first time I went to Holcoumb Valley I did 13 routes in a day, and soloed 11 of them. Granted not very difficult routes, but I had no problems finding my way around.
This issue that the OP has brought up is still the same issue. We have two people running an illegitimate guide school. They are under cutting prices of legit guide schools. The clearly do not have the qualifications to be teaching anybody anything.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 18, 2014 - 02:28pm PT
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Robert;...for the record....on every pitch they both asked to lead;...but with three people on a long route and first time on Tahquitz;....I just said no and hogged all the leads. I just remember when I first starting climbing on Tahquitz;.....getting lost so often and off route....., I didn't want any "glitches" that would slow down a party of three on a 6 pitch route...that's all........I just figured that it was easiest and best this way;....and they could return and lead ALL the pitches next time.....which they have since done..........(I'm an old man and want things done MY way.........can you relate, Robert?.....)......as it turned out....everything went very smoothly and safely...and I had a blast on the climb!...
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Jawon
climber
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Oct 18, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
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Olga_i wrote: I hope this answers most questions. I know that at times, answering certain things will not be possible for us without giving away trade secrets or confidential information, but we will do our best to respond to what we can.
Please take this constructively, but I have to agree there is something not quite right.
I don't know RCED but my guess is that one of their "trade secrets" may be organizing and being a corporate sponsor of meetup groups (meetup.com). I apologize if that is sharing something you'd rather not have in public, but it's not much of a secret if some random joe can put 1 and 1 together thru the internet without even trying.
They host a lot of meetups (I believe some paid, some for fun) and I can see it is a cost-effective and accessible resource for beginners. Good for them for filling that market gap. However, Carlos himself says in his profile that he is a "beginner climber" (as of a couple years ago at most).
I have no skin in this game and I don't want to mess with anyone's livelihood, but on the other hand I CRINGE thinking about my children or their friends ending up with a guiding service like this. After multipitch climbing for 15 years I took a certified guiding course just out of curiosity only to realize how different climbing for myself and guiding is and how little I knew about guiding even after all those pitches.
I wish RCED the best of luck and kudos for sharing your passion with others, but please take things slowly and heed some of the input from experienced climbers and guides here. You are playing with people's sons and daughters.
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
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Wow, Jawon, that was AWESOME!!! You have gone far beyond adding 1 & 1 and applied some serious higher level math skills to connect the dots between the meetups and Rock Climb Every Day. That was some super sleuthing and a brilliant deduction. Looks like you saw through the business plan to take advantage of the potential pool of beginning climbers at meetups to cultivate clients and reap corporate profits. Glad you enlightened us all before someone's son or daughter got seriously hurt. Many thanks!!!
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ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
San Diego
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Oct 18, 2014 - 06:22pm PT
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What is going on in that pic? There is the locker to locker clip using a PAS(?) and then it looks like there is a cinch belay device buried in there too ? What??
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 18, 2014 - 06:36pm PT
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She's a guide. Leave her alone.
(Nice lycra.)
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 18, 2014 - 06:55pm PT
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she is belaying the third (carlos?)up, locking biners chained(gives the third place to a clip in) Mr Gordon is Taking another wonderful Photo.
ugh! I am sorry to chime back in. I have not talked to Todd Gordon in 30yrs
I was very sad to see all his great JTree pics go away they were small rock heaven to me
whats that tag all about ?Day pass? park required seasonal pass
Yes the Gym crowd wants To go climbing outside.
things that make you go HMMM
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
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Sorry Todd, but I'm not going to bow down to you or anyone else on this. These people are clueless. Good intentions, but clueless. As I, and others have pointed out over and over again, she has yet to answer one single question.
She claims experience she doesn't have. She's advertising services she cannot deliver much less has the expertise to deliver. She has no permits, she has no insurance. The only thing we do know is that she pays her taxes.
Based on what she posted on MountainProject, if this is a tough climb/tough decent, she needs a rope just to get out of the parking lot.
Posted on MountainProject, read the following:
Ok, I read all the comments on this multi-pitch route, and I didn't seem to find some very relevant information I wish I knew before the 3 of us went on this route.
First off, let it be known that the descent of this route is way too long. No comments or notes have been made of this info on the guide book or here. There are bolts behind the top on a ledge for an 80' rappel, BUT after getting down from that 80' rappel you are still way far from the actual ground level. There is a super long scramble down a lot of small and large boulders to get to the bottom. I wish we would have known this before we decided to do this complete route.
Bring small cams and tinny nuts, to set up your first belay station off the ground over a small ledge. You can choose to belay off the ground if you want to, but the first ledge is only about 15-20 feet up and only has one small crack to place all of your protection.
The off-width chimney on P3- all I have to say about this is, unlike everyone else's comments, I can pass on this particular pitch any day. This section was possible, but darn painful for skinny people like me that do not have enough back and butt padding to smear and put opposite pressure against the other side of the rock. Plus I am not a fan of long run outs, or not being able to place any protection. On this section, expect to put nothing, because is too far to reach when you are doing the off-width.
On P4 there is a traverse, so be sure to bring long slings for this one or else you will have massive rope drag. We had 2 ropes, since there were 3 of us, and pulling 2 ropes up that pitch without any rope drag is heavy enough.
Once you reach the summit, is not over... you have to down climb behind the rock to a large ledge. Don't put your hand on the wall hole to the left of the anchors! I did and woke up a bat that came out flying out and scared me half to death!
After rappelling the 80' wall, prepare to scramble your way to the ground a long ways. 350'-80' = about 270 feet of down hill scramble. Yep, that is no joke.
I love climbing and muti-pitches, but this was by far the most time consuming climb I have ever experienced.
Pitch 1 and 2 were great. Everything after that, I could do without. If we ever go back, ever, we will just rap off the 2nd anchor and move on with our lives.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
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I hate to break it to you guys, but any chick that wears lycra like that can charge as much as she wants.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
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Haha! Todd Gordon called you guys out !!
Nobody got called out. And I can assure the conversation I had with him over the phone about this was quite different. He knows exactly what my position is, and he understands the lay of the land. He just doesn't like confrontation.
Let Olga get her paperwork in order then leave her alone !!
I don't believe she ever had any intentions of doing this. Maybe this will finally motivate her to start running a proper operation. I guarantee her rates are going to go up when get's a $12K bill for liability insurance.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 18, 2014 - 07:34pm PT
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I retracted my response because it was inappropriate.
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