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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 21, 2014 - 08:52pm PT
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Whats wrong with the single carabiner? Does that scare you?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 21, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
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4 Hours? When I teach this class it takes 4 hours just to get off the picnic table. How to coil a rope, flake, stack, pancake. Then on to knots. Next soft goods, then the hardware. Passive gear, slcd's etc. The real stuff doesn't even start till after lunch.
I guess I've been teaching this class wrong for years. I think maybe I need to start taking classes from them.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 21, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
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Whats wrong with the single carabiner? Does that scare you?
Well you could argue the redundancy issue. But frankly two biners make the system run a tad smoother. A little more surface area. I've always used 2 for top rope setups.
I could be incorrect, but I'm pretty sure the AMGA is now advocating 3 biners at the power point. I think it's beyond excessive and unnecessary. Do as you please.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:12am PT
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Not the place to insult the slag wench but
Hey Olga_i we got eyes on you
V V VV<>VV<>VV V V
as to why three 'biners at the rope anchor junction
1)more surface area wider bend in the rope
2)as the last person guide (helper,trainee)arives to break it down the third 'biner can be used to clip in and still have a fully safe tr anchor (redundancy bit of overkill but good point for training)
3)the amga always has three reasons for everything they do
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Oct 22, 2014 - 07:37am PT
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Oh for f*#k's sake, it's a demonstration photo. Find something else to get yer panties wadded about.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2014 - 08:14am PT
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N00bs can't guide.
It takes years and years and lifetimes to become a so called guide.
N00bs will just tech you academics and hardware.
From masters you will learn all the subtle arts and improvisations that help you stay alive and make you dynamic in all facets of your life and death.
Masters talk less and do more.
A real student talks less and studies the master more.
The master never ever says he's a master.
The master also learns from the student and vice versa.
Rock climbing is now mainstream on main street like Starbucks.
It's now big big business.
But where did the the "master" of rock go?
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 22, 2014 - 10:13am PT
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I personally think that posting this thread and going on the attack here is wrong for many reasons...
Locker and DMT, I often find myself agreeing with your posts in other threads, and would be interested in why you feel the way you do about this. For the record, I'm NOT trying to start an argument here. I'm just curious.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 22, 2014 - 10:37am PT
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Right!?!? I am just a shocked as you!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:45am PT
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"But in business, publicly running down your competition is not generally a good idea. Warning a prospective customer to 'check for this skill set, check for that cert' is fine. But saying Competitor X sucks because of x,y and z? Bad form, sorry. And it is not typically well-received by the potential customer who perhaps is thinking, "I can make up my own mind?""
I get your 'high road' drift, and do believe that's the better path to take in running a business. That said, it's incredibly frustrating to see customers with limited/no knowledge of the critical elements of a quality service be swayed by price, convenience & glitz. When you've been in a line of work for decades, and dedicated yourself to the highest quality that can be achieved, it's really hard sometimes to not want to point these differences out whenever you have a chance.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Oct 22, 2014 - 11:55am PT
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the problem with a thread like this is that it is based almost 100% on potentially libelous statements, as 99% of what is in this thread are subjective and speculative statements and accusations masquerading as "factual" ones.
because there are so few substantiated facts in here, all a thread like this serves is to make everyone involved look unprofessional:
1. the accusers: because maybe they are wrong when they say things like "i know that crag in the photo, they don't have a permit and i know they are guiding "[first we'd need to have a legal definition for what exactly "guiding" is and then second we'd need more than a photo to determine whether that definition was actually met...] or "so and so told me that they can't do a walk off in climbing shoes that i can do in my teva's", and etc. and etc.
2. the accusees: because their answers are vague [even though they have every right to keep them vague] and this leaves the door open to the possibility that the accusations are correct.
ultimately it's just a big sh#t show and is similar to listening in on a fight between a husband and wife.
and now i just got in the middle... hahaha.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
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Thanks for the reply, DMT. I am glad you took the time to write it out. Your perspective on the issue is somewhat different from mine, but I get where you are coming from.
Cheers!
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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DMT.... you are a sales pro.
The only issue I have with these folks is the huge MEET-UP thing and how large groups like this can damage, thrash and otherwise mess up a nice little roadside crag.
It might sound harsh to some, cause as climbers we are and have been welcoming to noobs/begineers/what ever you wish to call em... forever.
If this outfitt shows up on you, while on a nice day climbing, you will be pissed.
If they are running around without the proper permits, insurance, etc....
and somebody gets injured or worse. There will be hell to pay!
Attorneys in lawsuits can be the toughest MOFOs out there and I don't think Ol_ga will be able to brush off the hard questions.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 22, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
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"If this outfitt shows up on you, while on a nice day climbing, you will be pissed. "
Agreed, but MeetUp groups like this are only one of dozens of large groups that one commonly encounters at climbing areas these days. Sure, there are regulations on many public lands that are supposed to specify limits on those groups, but whether they get enforced is widely variable. NPS tends to be pretty good about policy management...USFS is spotty...BLM is virtually non-existent...State or City parks vary widely....
Olga's MeetUp groups are the Group Size problem du jour, and not the primary offender by any means. Not trying to justify them, as I take great issue with large group sizes at the crags, but suggesting some perspective is appropriate.
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2014 - 11:59pm PT
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nah000 & Locker.....this thread was not based on libelous statements, just the question of whether anyone had heard of a rock climbing guide service, "Rock Climb Every Day." And as scrubbing bubbles indicated there weren't any wildly, outrageous inflammatory remarks.....just intense scrutiny of material from the "Rock Climb Every Day" website, photos of Olga with "clients" in matching helmets, in Joshua National Park, and a fair amount of prose by Olga where she steadfastly avoided or sidestepped answering questions regarding having certification, permits, and liability insurance for her business.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Oct 23, 2014 - 01:09am PT
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rurprider wrote: nah000 & Locker.....this thread was not based on libelous statements, just the question of whether anyone had heard of a rock climbing guide service, "Rock Climb Every Day." And as scrubbing bubbles indicated there weren't any wildly, outrageous inflammatory remarks.....just intense scrutiny of material from the "Rock Climb Every Day" website, photos of Olga with "clients" in matching helmets, in Joshua National Park, and a fair amount of prose by Olga where she steadfastly avoided or sidestepped answering questions regarding having certification, permits, and liability insurance for her business.
seriously?
i was bored so i went back and looked solely at your [rurprider's] posts.
3nd post: "the AMGA representative indicated that there is a high level of "STINK" in the CEO, Olga, claiming to be certified" here you wrote that olga claimed to be certified. good luck proving that. if you can't that would be a libelous statement.
5th post: "Someone could bet hurt or worse, badly injured by a wild cat guide." given, everything else you have said and that this is posted in a thread about rced, there is an implication that they are wild cat guides that are operating in an unsafe manner. good luck backing that up.
8th post: "posting links on their website in order to appear affiliated with the AMGA and the Access Fund" didn't know that one couldn't post a link to an organization one supports on their website. good luck proving that it was done "in order to appear affiliated". if you can't prove it, that will be more libel.
10th post: "Olga tries to put a happy face,positive spin on a business catch without certification and permits and taking advantage of loopholes." she says she has permits for where she guides. if you are wrong, your statement is libel.
ok. ten of your posts in and i'm done being bored. mostly because it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
and more importantly you aren't even near the worst offender. within the first few pages, that i took another look at, there are other people claiming olga and co have never led a trad climb, etc. and etc.
if you don't think this thread is filled with potentially libelous statements and accusations then i'm happy for your good fortune: you obviously haven't spent much time around lawyers.
and while, you are of course free to carry on, i hope if you do you'll trust me on the following: you and all those making use of a public soapbox that has an international reach to continually harass a fellow climber, are making yourself look unprofessional and/or like jackasses.
i'm actually pretty surprised the powers that be haven't killed this thread already. i suspect it's only because they haven't actually taken notice of what is in here...
while, olga didn't answer the questions to your satisfaction or more importantly in a way that was able to convince you that your suspicions are wrong, she did give answers to your questions.
and ultimately, she doesn't owe you anything on supertopo...
if you are truly trying to be of service to the climbing community and have any evidence of wrongdoing contact the nps, the blm, the amga, or whatever other authority it is whose regs are not being followed.
or carry on with your attempt at a trial in the court of public opinion and continue to have a lot of the mud being slung, stick to your own self in the process.
your call.
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2014 - 03:24am PT
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Seriously...nah000....while you're being BORED you should go back and reread RLF's posts. Robert HAS contacted the NPS via a ranger. As I indicated the AMGA was contacted (reps Vicky & Ed) and felt the RCED had a high level of STINK to it. And just in case you CAN'T read between the lines, Yelp, Groupon, Meetup, and the Inland Empire Christian Center were contacted, as well.
Some problem with your reading comprehension? Call Sylvan Learning at (855) 567-2848 They're having a Groupon special, save 74%. And thanks for helping scrubbing bubbles get some inflammatory remarks he can sink his teeth into.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Oct 23, 2014 - 09:59am PT
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rurprider:
my only intention was to establish that this thread is primarily based on potential libel [rather than innocent questions as you asserted], and so as mentioned, i only reread enough to a paint a quick sketch for you...
if you and your co-accusers have contacted all of the relevant authorities with your "evidence", good on ya.
to my knowledge, no authority has of yet made any determination of fact, and so every post of yours i quoted remains potentially libellous.
but carry on attacking, smearing and defending, i'm sure you are swaying hearts and minds as we speak. /s
i tried calling sylvan, but the number was for the topeka chapter, so no dice on the discount. i appreciate your caring enough to google that for me, though...
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 23, 2014 - 10:46am PT
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Keep up the Rumpriding boys, sad times when that's what it comes down to. Oh no, the last thing we need is getting more people into the sport who top rope the 5.6s and the 5.9s so the "real climbers" can't lead them. Maybe some of them city folks would have signed up with "real guides" to learn but I doubt it. Who wants to learn from bitter old dudes with a bad attitude. Maybe take a hard look and ask why you have not been able to attract enough clientele in the worlds fastest growing sport that you go all Gestapo on these kids. I think the reason is right here on this thread.
But all rumpriding aside, what about the Lycra?
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 23, 2014 - 11:10am PT
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But all rumpriding aside, what about the Lycra?
I think that the lycra CAUSES the rumpriding.
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DVS
Trad climber
Downey, Ca.
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Oct 31, 2014 - 09:10am PT
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I can tell you that I had an extensive e-mail exchange with Olga over the course of a couple of weeks. I expressed concern over the fact that it did not appear as if they had insurance or permits to guide in places like JTree, New Jack City, or any of the other locations that they guide in that require permits.She insisted that they had both insurance AND permits. I offered to be a neutral party and look at the documents via e-mail, and informed Olga that if in fact she had an insurance document and permits, I would go on-line in her defense, and set the record straight. She responded by stating she would make those available shortly. After waiting a week and not receiving anymore communication, I followed up with an e-mail inquiring as to the status of the papers. She then informed me that her attorney had opened a file regarding the comments being made on this and other social media sites, and had also been in touch with a high ranking law enforcement offical in her city. I responded by giving her my attorneys contact info and informed her that if her guy was keeping a file and charging her for that, she was getting ripped off. I informed her that we live on the side of the ocean that enjoys the first ammendment right of free speech.I also informed her that I had contacted the special permit office in JTree, and that she had no permit to guide there. She then insisted that they don't guide in the park despite the pictures on their website which are clearly taken in the park. To that she responded with a story about how those pictures were of friends and models taken for marketing purposes, and that they own property in JTree and that is where they guide. When I pointed out the fact that the website shows a map with a pinpoint as to where to meet for the JTree class and that it is the corner of Park Av and HWY 62, and that is not her property.....there was no explanation. She has continued to hide behind "not revealing our business model" as the reason she doesn't prove up insurance and permits. Insurance has nothing to do with a business model unless your model is to run without it, and undercut the competition by not paying the cost of doing business in a legit manner. When asked why her guides were not listed, or their qualifications, the answer was "they are private contractors". When I pointed out that all of Vertical Adventures guides were listed with their qualifications, and that it is stated at the bottom of Vertical Adventures site "all of our guides are private contractors", there was also no response. Throughout my exchange with Olga, the two points I continually tried to drive home to her was 1)If someone gets hurt while in your class, and you have no insurance, that can create a horrible financial burden for the family of the injured party. It also creates a problem for the rest of the climbing community because that persons family will likely hire a lawyer who will sue the Park Service for allowing an un-insured, and un-permitted service to guide in the park.2) This is exactly what threatens our access to places like this. The climbing community needs to police itself against rogue guiding services like this that operate outside of the regulations.You would not buy gear or ropes from a company that cuts corners, nor should we trust our lives, or the lives of our fellow climbers to organizations like this. If they are seen guiding where we know insurance and permits are required, officials should be contacted immediately.....it's the only way to stop this kind of thing before someone is hurt and our access is threatened. If anyone cares to view the e-mail thread, simply contact me at vinjection@aol.com and I will gladly forward the exchange to you.
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