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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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The Raven
(Corax supercilius)
The raven glares with great disdain
When by his power pole you park.
He defecates upon your car
And to your back he mutters, “Dork!”
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Ron's latest.Turkeys abound hereabouts.
I just watched SGT. YORK yesterday.
"Gobble-gobble."
You turkeys are raven over bird lime.
Love the superciliousness here, though.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Looking for a ride.
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Bad Fiducci
climber
Wilson, WY
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Blaming ravens for the serious threats to sage grouse survival is at best misplaced. Like most wildlife crises, habitat loss is the biggest problem for grouse, Cheat grass has taken over millions of acres of basin and range sage habitat, and, along with the impact of ruthless extractive industrial development, this has resulted in the bleak future sage grouse face. Ravens and grouse maintained a delicate but successful balance for eons, prior to the 'settling' of the this continent.
Show some respect for an icon of the real wild west.
I watched a raven open up a velcroed pack on a snowmobile near Old Faithful one winter day. Once open, the bird took a sandwich and lifted off, making room for the next raven. Seeing that was alot of fun.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Bf,, the very fact that ravens have decimated nesting birds and ARE SHOT ON SIGHT by federal trappers in the west, and the fact they also have decimated the desert tortoise seems to have escaped you.
Ron, the fact that no one here is talking about Nevada seems to have escaped you.
If Ravens are eating your tortoises, then fine, shoot them. But for the people native to the Pacific Northwest, Ravens were special. Of course, the natives of the PNW weren't Choctaw, and didn't live in Armpit, Nevada, so maybe it is righteous of you not to give a sh#t about them.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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I had a pet raven, I raised it from the time it was a featherless chick, feeding it every hour....
But a judge sentenced the bird to life in prison and I had to let him go.
The bird developed a habit of pulling mail out of mailboxes, and shredding the mail. That's a federal offense.
Eventually a report of this bird went to law enforcement, and to a federal judge, and everyone knew the bird belonged to me.
I was given the choice of life in prison or death, so I gave up the bird for life in prison.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Harry, that's too bad you had to give it up.
I imagine, though, that the expense of feeding would have gotten onerous eventually, what with the price of grouse eggs going up and tortoise eggs getting endangered and the quality of roadkill isn't what it used to be, either, I'm sure. :0)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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My farmer brother in law tells me that crows and ravens know the difference between a shovel or rake and a rifle at 500yrds.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Let's go bag some sheep. An AR15 ought to cut them up in nice bits and then the ravens would have something else to eat and the grouse and torts would have their habitat back.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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You sanctimonious types who condescend to correct Ron would do well to do a little fact
checking. I believe he is 100% correct about ravens and tortoises. That isn't to say that there
isn't a human component buried in the problem but there is little debate that ravens are a
death knell for many a tortoise. I am also quite sure he is correct about raven predation of
grouse as they will do so for most any species - they are opportunistic and intelligent so the
'lesser' species consequently suffer. Here on SuperTopo it is reversed - the lesser species
are the predators by weight of numbers.
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steve shea
climber
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A relative perhaps, the Choucas, a small crow in the Massif du Mt Blanc brings luck to Alpinists. They are friendly and put on great airshows to entertain on belays. Anyone ever been to the Choucas bar in Cham? BITD, 70's, it was the French version of the Nationale. Ravens are not bothering the Sage Grouse here in Jackson, only the aeroplanes. The strutting grounds are right next to the runway. Ravens are good omens for climbers here.
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Bad Fiducci
climber
Wilson, WY
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Ravens have been observed flying upside down for as long as a kilometer. A remarkable animal.
Nature, bloody in tooth and claw.
Of course a raven, omnivorous and opportunistic, will eat a vulnerable tortoise or any other food source. Always have, always will. A big pile of shells proves some things, but not all that Ron implies.
Chimps can begin eating a captured monkey while it is alive and kicking. I have to turn my head away sometimes, when nature takes its course.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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You sanctimonious types who condescend to correct Ron would do well to do a little fact checking. I believe he is 100% correct about ravens and tortoises.
I'm certainly not condescending to correct Ron. I don't doubt that ravens kill tortoises. And grouse. And probably lots of other creatures. He's there, and I'm not. I believe him.
But the fact that ravens are killing tortoises in some part of Nevada doesn't make ravens evil. All non-herbivores kill other creatures. Always have. Always will. So what? Should we all grab our guns and kill every carnivore and omnivore on the planet?
It's not like bleeding-heart liberal commie environmentalists introduced ravens into the fragile Nevada desert, and it is therefore the duty of all red-blooded real men to kill them.
Seriously, if ravens are such a threat to tortoises and grouse, how can there be any tortoises or grouse left? Who protected the tortoises in the past?
But all that aside, the fact that ravens are a problem in Ron's neighborhood doesn't mean they are a problem anywhere else. Some of us find ravens symbolic of what we love about the mountains.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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A pair now claims Tahquitz as home.
Come to think of it the swallows were conspicuous by their absence today.
As far as the tortoise, the enemy is pavement.
In the 50's they were so plentiful in the San Gabriel valley that about every kid had a pet one.
I can still show you a place within sight of I-10 where you can't walk 50 ft without stepping on a burrow
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
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Apparently, we all know FAR less than Ron when it comes to anything regarding wildlife, politics, and climbing in Tahoe.
The whole concept of open season on an animal that won't be eaten, and is native, is simply mankind exerting it's will to change something that doesn't need to be changed. It's simply being changed to please us, to serve OUR wants. Domination is no way to show respect to our fragile planet. Animals adapt, and in some cases it seems that we are inflexible to adaptation, so they've got the upper hand on us in some cases. I disagree with humans ideology in this regard.
But, what do I know? I'm no expert like Ron. I guess I'll just accept what he says as the truth. Thanks Ron.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I'm certainly not condescending to correct Ron.
Ghost, I'm shattered! I certainly didn't think you would rise to that poor
excuse for bait! Bwa HaHaHaHa! But at least you can talk yerself out of
it with some credibility plus yer man enough to give him some benefit of
the doubt as opposed to those poor sods whose concept of impartiality is
on a par with their concept of civility. ;-)
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