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Messages 1 - 59 of total 59 in this topic
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 25, 2014 - 08:34am PT
Super intelligent birds. There is a family living in my hood, we call back and forth. It's nice to see them around 5:30 every morning when I'm out walking my dogs.

Anyone else a fan of ravens?
pc

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 08:40am PT
Yep. Cool birds. I'm even a fan of crows though not when they come through my yard at 5am in the summer.

Their call would make a great ring tone for your phone.
pc

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 08:58am PT
Cool looking book DMT. Thanks for the headsup on it.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 09:02am PT
Thanks, DMT, I'll check it out.

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 09:08am PT
Drinking coffee and walking my dogs on Monday morning, I watched a very large raven flee from an aggressive jay. His wingspan was damn close to my own.

And Ron, nature is a fierce thing, you of all people should know that.
Rollover

climber
Gross Vegas
Jun 25, 2014 - 09:21am PT
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 09:31am PT
I just ordered the book, Dingus. Looking forward to it.
Chewybacca

Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
Jun 25, 2014 - 09:31am PT
I'm a fan of ravens. They help me in my quest to watch grizzly bears. They have learned that where there are bears there are food scraps.




They are surprisingly large birds as well. For perspective here is one flying next to an eagle.


StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 25, 2014 - 09:43am PT
Ravens and Crows are not the same thing. They call a flock of crows a "murder" for a reason.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Crow_vs_Raven

Corvids will eventually take over after humans get done killing themselves off.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jun 25, 2014 - 09:59am PT
I hate ravens and crows. Freaking noisy as hell.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jun 25, 2014 - 10:01am PT
Amazing birds. 'nuff said.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 25, 2014 - 10:01am PT
Yep. Crows offen gather in the neighborhood before they roost and can raise a hell of a racket.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 10:05am PT
On command my Raven would have pecked your Parrots eyes out and then drank it's milkshake...

LOL
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jun 25, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
I thought this guy was merely a crow, but perhaps he's an Alpine chough instead. Asking for handouts near the Eiger Glacier in Switzerland.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 25, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
Ravens will work with wolves in a symbiotic relationship. The ravens will call the wolves to a carcass in order to have the wolves rip through the hide and expose food the raven would not be able to get to otherwise. Sneaky bastards, we have to shoot the wolves and the ravens. Just kidding Ron

They are a big nuisance in the Grand Canyon. I lost my dinner one evening, I left it out while I walked 100 feet to the river. Instead of bear canisters there are steel mesh bags to store food in that protect the food from ravens and rodents.
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
Jun 25, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
nice photos Chewy (miss your posts over on the Birds thread)

I´ll always associate the calls of ravens with climbing. Love that sound as it echos among the cliffs or canyons. Have sat at many a belay and marvelled at their aerial acrobatics.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2014 - 09:21am PT
Bump.

Turns out there are at least three adult ravens living in my hood. From what I have heard on my morning walks, they live in two nests about three hundred yards apart on opposite sides of the river. They are constantly patrolling the area and talking to each other.

One was at my front door the other day, I think they recognize where I live, as I've been calling to them from time to time. We are getting to know each other.
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jul 4, 2014 - 09:35am PT
Love ravens! Crows too, for that matter.



stonefly

Social climber
Alameda, California
Jul 4, 2014 - 09:43am PT
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jul 4, 2014 - 09:52am PT
Cool stuff & great thread Brandon. Always had much respect for the Raven. Most native tribes in BC & the PNW & I'm sure elsewhere really hold the Raven in high regards amongst other animals.

Raven Symbolism
The Aboriginal people of the Northwest Coast had numerous origin myths which explained, for example, how daylight began or why summer and winter alternate. The principal character in many of these myths is a powerful trickster, Raven, who is known to different tribes under various names. On the northern part of the coast, Raven was the most popular crest figure. In the south he was valued as a guardian spirit. Possessors of this spirit are fine hunters who enjoy special ease in killing game. Raven combined the characteristics of good and evil, and for his mischief he was turned black forever. The HAIDA, TLINGIT and TSIMSHIAN had moieties they called Raven.


We have many Ravens in Squamish, some of them are massive and reside up on the Chief. Majestic creatures they are it's great to watch them soar while hanging out at a belay.


stonefly

Social climber
Alameda, California
Jul 4, 2014 - 09:53am PT
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Jul 4, 2014 - 10:56am PT
Corax corax.
Do like 'em. To me it's a wilderness bird.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 4, 2014 - 11:48am PT
Hugin and Munin


In Norse mythology, Huginn (from Old Norse "thought") and Muninn (Old Norse "memory" or "mind") are a pair of ravens that fly all over the world, Midgard, and bring information to the god Odin. Huginn and Muninn are attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources: the Prose Edda and Heimskringla, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson; in the Third Grammatical Treatise, compiled in the 13th century by Óláfr Þórðarson; and in the poetry of skalds. The names of the ravens are sometimes modernly anglicized as Hugin and Munin.

In the Poetic Edda, a disguised Odin expresses that he fears that they may not return from their daily flights. The Prose Edda explains that Odin is referred to as "raven-god" due to his association with Huginn and Muninn. In the Prose Edda and the Third Grammatical Treatise, the two ravens are described as perching on Odin's shoulders. Heimskringla details that Odin gave Huginn and Muninn the ability to speak.

Migration Period golden bracteates, Vendel era helmet plates, a pair of identical Germanic Iron Age bird-shaped brooches, Viking Age objects depicting a moustached man wearing a helmet, and a portion of the 10th or 11th century Thorwald's Cross may depict Odin with one of the ravens. Huginn and Muninn's role as Odin's messengers has been linked to shamanic practices, the Norse raven banner, general raven symbolism among the Germanic peoples, and the Norse concepts of the fylgja and the hamingja.

Odin

Odin (/ˈoʊdɨn/; from Old Norse Óðinn, "The Furious One") is a major god in most if not all branches of Germanic mythology especially in the Norse mythology branch of Germanic mythology, the Allfather of the gods, and the ruler of Asgard. Homologous with the Old English "Wōden", the Old Saxon "Wôdan" and the Old High German "Wôtan", the name is descended from Proto-Germanic "*Wōdanaz" or "*Wōđanaz". "Odin" is generally accepted as the modern English form of the name, although, in some cases, older forms may be used or preferred. His name is related to ōðr, meaning "fury, excitation", besides "mind" or "poetry". His role, like that of many of the Norse gods, is complex. Odin is a principal member of the Æsir (the major group of the Norse pantheon) and is associated with war, battle, victory and death, but also wisdom, Shamanism, magic, poetry, prophecy, and the hunt. Odin has many sons, the most famous of whom is the thunder god Thor.

Worship of Odin may date to Proto-Germanic paganism. The Roman historian Tacitus may refer to Odin when he mentions Mercury as the chief god of the Germanic tribes.[6] The reason is that, like Mercury, Odin was regarded as a Psychopomp, "guide of souls" and considered the god who brought poetry to mankind.

Originally, Odin was possibly considered mainly a shamanistic god and the leader of the war band. His consort was presumably Frijjō. The ascetic ritual of hanging from the world tree, Odin's practice of seidr, his familiar animals (Sleipnir, Huginn and Muninn) and his connection to ecstatic inspiration all suggest his role as the prototypical shaman. As the society changed, Odin's shamanistic role became less prominent, although it remained one of his attributes, and he was mostly considered the wise king of the gods and bringer of victory. Frijjō presumably split into Frigg and Freyja, with Freyja being the one to receive most of the shaman's aspects.

Parallels between Odin and the Celtic Lugus have often been pointed out. Both are intellectual gods, commanding magic and poetry. Both have ravens and a spear as their attributes. Julius Caesar (de bello Gallico, 6.17.1) mentions Mercury as the chief god of Celtic religion. A likely context of the diffusion of elements of Celtic ritual into Germanic culture is that of the Chatti, who lived at the Celtic-Germanic boundary in Hesse during the final centuries before the Common Era.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jul 4, 2014 - 11:49am PT
LOVE Ravens and all birds. I laugh when people complain that birds eat meat, kill young, poop and are noisy. Take a look at humans for a moment... :)

Great book - it's been forever since I read it though. I should revisit it.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jul 4, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
`'Tis some visitor,' I muttered, `tapping at my chamber door -
Only this, and nothing more.'

Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December,
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow; - vainly I had sought to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow - sorrow for the lost Lenore -
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore -
Nameless here for evermore.

And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
Thrilled me - filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating
`'Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door -
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door; -
This it is, and nothing more,'

Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
`Sir,' said I, `or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you' - here I opened wide the door; -
Darkness there, and nothing more.

Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
But the silence was unbroken, and the darkness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, `Lenore!'
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, `Lenore!'
Merely this and nothing more.

Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping somewhat louder than before.
`Surely,' said I, `surely that is something at my window lattice;
Let me see then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore -
Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore; -
'Tis the wind and nothing more!'

Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately raven of the saintly days of yore.
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door -
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door -
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.

Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning - little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blessed with seeing bird above his chamber door -
Bird or beast above the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
With such name as `Nevermore.'

But the raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only,
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered - not a feather then he fluttered -
Till I scarcely more than muttered `Other friends have flown before -
On the morrow he will leave me, as my hopes have flown before.'
Then the bird said, `Nevermore.'

Startled at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
`Doubtless,' said I, `what it utters is its only stock and store,
Caught from some unhappy master whom unmerciful disaster
Followed fast and followed faster till his songs one burden bore -
Till the dirges of his hope that melancholy burden bore
Of "Never-nevermore."'

But the raven still beguiling all my sad soul into smiling,
Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird and bust and door;
Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking
Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore -
What this grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt, and ominous bird of yore
Meant in croaking `Nevermore.'

This I sat engaged in guessing, but no syllable expressing
To the fowl whose fiery eyes now burned into my bosom's core;
This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion's velvet lining that the lamp-light gloated o'er,
But whose velvet violet lining with the lamp-light gloating o'er,
She shall press, ah, nevermore!

Then, methought, the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by Seraphim whose foot-falls tinkled on the tufted floor.
`Wretch,' I cried, `thy God hath lent thee - by these angels he has sent thee
Respite - respite and nepenthe from thy memories of Lenore!
Quaff, oh quaff this kind nepenthe, and forget this lost Lenore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

`Prophet!' said I, `thing of evil! - prophet still, if bird or devil! -
Whether tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate yet all undaunted, on this desert land enchanted -
On this home by horror haunted - tell me truly, I implore -
Is there - is there balm in Gilead? - tell me - tell me, I implore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

`Prophet!' said I, `thing of evil! - prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that Heaven that bends above us - by that God we both adore -
Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels name Lenore -
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden, whom the angels name Lenore?'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

`Be that word our sign of parting, bird or fiend!' I shrieked upstarting -
`Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken! - quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted - nevermore!

Edgar Allan Poe
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 4, 2014 - 12:15pm PT

Raven (Corvus Corax)

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
They're big, commanding creatures. I have a lot of respect for them. I get the feeling that they know more about me than I do them.
Edge

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jul 4, 2014 - 12:32pm PT

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 4, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
everywhere in the world i've gone, ravens have been there laughing at me.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jul 4, 2014 - 02:08pm PT
Here is a website devoted to raven and crow identification: http://birding.about.com/od/Tricky-Bird-IDs/a/American-Crow-Or-Common-Raven.htm
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jul 4, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
The natives of the BC coast mountains settled in Squamish & Pemberton, but not in between where current day Whistler is. The reason being that when they first passed through they found that there were so many crows. In their teachings, crows represent lost souls and best avoided.

Not much has changed in the valley which Whistler resides in some hundred odd years later. Still lots of crows, still lots of lost souls.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jul 4, 2014 - 06:34pm PT
john hansen

climber
Jul 4, 2014 - 06:50pm PT
I am sure they are glad that they are not in your country either. :)

Lovely bird.


Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
Both of you should take your bitching elsewhere.

RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jul 4, 2014 - 07:52pm PT
Maybe you didn't fully understand my post Matt.



Crows = lost souls, garbage pickers

Ravens=great spirit responsible for creation, majestic creature

2 different animals. Mistaking them is like calling an Aussie a kiwi, everyone knows how insulting that is.
go-B

climber
Cling to what is good!
Jul 4, 2014 - 08:07pm PT

I don't like Ravens! :)
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jul 4, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
That's interesting Bruce, cool stuff i wasn't aware of. Were the peregrines brought to pemby for a specific reason that you know of??

I find I don't see Raven's often on the West face of the Chief, but usually if I am climbing in the gullies, north walls or Squamissif I almost always see at least one. Been seeing quite a few vultures lately & caught a pretty sweet peregrine scrap above penny lane the other day.


Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 5, 2014 - 12:32am PT

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 5, 2014 - 12:36am PT

Crow Rescue (Raven)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jul 5, 2014 - 12:40am PT

Peregrine Falcon takes on a Raven in Yosemite
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jul 5, 2014 - 10:49am PT

The Raven
(Corax supercilius)

The raven glares with great disdain
When by his power pole you park.
He defecates upon your car
And to your back he mutters, “Dork!”
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jul 5, 2014 - 11:30am PT
Ron's latest.Turkeys abound hereabouts.
I just watched SGT. YORK yesterday.
"Gobble-gobble."
You turkeys are raven over bird lime.

Love the superciliousness here, though.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jul 5, 2014 - 11:54am PT
Looking for a ride.

Bad Fiducci

climber
Wilson, WY
Jul 5, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
Blaming ravens for the serious threats to sage grouse survival is at best misplaced. Like most wildlife crises, habitat loss is the biggest problem for grouse, Cheat grass has taken over millions of acres of basin and range sage habitat, and, along with the impact of ruthless extractive industrial development, this has resulted in the bleak future sage grouse face. Ravens and grouse maintained a delicate but successful balance for eons, prior to the 'settling' of the this continent.
Show some respect for an icon of the real wild west.
I watched a raven open up a velcroed pack on a snowmobile near Old Faithful one winter day. Once open, the bird took a sandwich and lifted off, making room for the next raven. Seeing that was alot of fun.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jul 5, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jul 5, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
Bf,, the very fact that ravens have decimated nesting birds and ARE SHOT ON SIGHT by federal trappers in the west, and the fact they also have decimated the desert tortoise seems to have escaped you.

Ron, the fact that no one here is talking about Nevada seems to have escaped you.

If Ravens are eating your tortoises, then fine, shoot them. But for the people native to the Pacific Northwest, Ravens were special. Of course, the natives of the PNW weren't Choctaw, and didn't live in Armpit, Nevada, so maybe it is righteous of you not to give a sh#t about them.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jul 6, 2014 - 01:04am PT
I had a pet raven, I raised it from the time it was a featherless chick, feeding it every hour....

But a judge sentenced the bird to life in prison and I had to let him go.

The bird developed a habit of pulling mail out of mailboxes, and shredding the mail. That's a federal offense.

Eventually a report of this bird went to law enforcement, and to a federal judge, and everyone knew the bird belonged to me.

I was given the choice of life in prison or death, so I gave up the bird for life in prison.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jul 6, 2014 - 01:09am PT
Harry, that's too bad you had to give it up.

I imagine, though, that the expense of feeding would have gotten onerous eventually, what with the price of grouse eggs going up and tortoise eggs getting endangered and the quality of roadkill isn't what it used to be, either, I'm sure. :0)
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 6, 2014 - 08:21am PT
My farmer brother in law tells me that crows and ravens know the difference between a shovel or rake and a rifle at 500yrds.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 6, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
Let's go bag some sheep. An AR15 ought to cut them up in nice bits and then the ravens would have something else to eat and the grouse and torts would have their habitat back.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 6, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
You sanctimonious types who condescend to correct Ron would do well to do a little fact
checking. I believe he is 100% correct about ravens and tortoises. That isn't to say that there
isn't a human component buried in the problem but there is little debate that ravens are a
death knell for many a tortoise. I am also quite sure he is correct about raven predation of
grouse as they will do so for most any species - they are opportunistic and intelligent so the
'lesser' species consequently suffer. Here on SuperTopo it is reversed - the lesser species
are the predators by weight of numbers.
steve shea

climber
Jul 6, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
A relative perhaps, the Choucas, a small crow in the Massif du Mt Blanc brings luck to Alpinists. They are friendly and put on great airshows to entertain on belays. Anyone ever been to the Choucas bar in Cham? BITD, 70's, it was the French version of the Nationale. Ravens are not bothering the Sage Grouse here in Jackson, only the aeroplanes. The strutting grounds are right next to the runway. Ravens are good omens for climbers here.
Bad Fiducci

climber
Wilson, WY
Jul 6, 2014 - 04:34pm PT
Ravens have been observed flying upside down for as long as a kilometer. A remarkable animal.
Nature, bloody in tooth and claw.
Of course a raven, omnivorous and opportunistic, will eat a vulnerable tortoise or any other food source. Always have, always will. A big pile of shells proves some things, but not all that Ron implies.
Chimps can begin eating a captured monkey while it is alive and kicking. I have to turn my head away sometimes, when nature takes its course.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jul 6, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
You sanctimonious types who condescend to correct Ron would do well to do a little fact checking. I believe he is 100% correct about ravens and tortoises.

I'm certainly not condescending to correct Ron. I don't doubt that ravens kill tortoises. And grouse. And probably lots of other creatures. He's there, and I'm not. I believe him.

But the fact that ravens are killing tortoises in some part of Nevada doesn't make ravens evil. All non-herbivores kill other creatures. Always have. Always will. So what? Should we all grab our guns and kill every carnivore and omnivore on the planet?

It's not like bleeding-heart liberal commie environmentalists introduced ravens into the fragile Nevada desert, and it is therefore the duty of all red-blooded real men to kill them.

Seriously, if ravens are such a threat to tortoises and grouse, how can there be any tortoises or grouse left? Who protected the tortoises in the past?

But all that aside, the fact that ravens are a problem in Ron's neighborhood doesn't mean they are a problem anywhere else. Some of us find ravens symbolic of what we love about the mountains.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 6, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
A pair now claims Tahquitz as home.

Come to think of it the swallows were conspicuous by their absence today.

As far as the tortoise, the enemy is pavement.

In the 50's they were so plentiful in the San Gabriel valley that about every kid had a pet one.

I can still show you a place within sight of I-10 where you can't walk 50 ft without stepping on a burrow
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Jul 6, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
ne one post this yet?

http://www.teachertube.com/video/251203&title=The_Raven_The_Simpsons_Version&vpkey=2b0a9bb514
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jul 7, 2014 - 04:47am PT

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
Apparently, we all know FAR less than Ron when it comes to anything regarding wildlife, politics, and climbing in Tahoe.

The whole concept of open season on an animal that won't be eaten, and is native, is simply mankind exerting it's will to change something that doesn't need to be changed. It's simply being changed to please us, to serve OUR wants. Domination is no way to show respect to our fragile planet. Animals adapt, and in some cases it seems that we are inflexible to adaptation, so they've got the upper hand on us in some cases. I disagree with humans ideology in this regard.

But, what do I know? I'm no expert like Ron. I guess I'll just accept what he says as the truth. Thanks Ron.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 7, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
I'm certainly not condescending to correct Ron.

Ghost, I'm shattered! I certainly didn't think you would rise to that poor
excuse for bait! Bwa HaHaHaHa! But at least you can talk yerself out of
it with some credibility plus yer man enough to give him some benefit of
the doubt as opposed to those poor sods whose concept of impartiality is
on a par with their concept of civility. ;-)
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