Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 12:44pm PT
|
If you value offroad ability more, go forester. The approach angles are better, and the new ones have x mode which has hill descent mode plus another feature or two I cant remember offhand.
The older ones are just as capable, theyre shorter because theyre based on the impreza, but are higher to allow larger tires. There is aftermarket support to further lift them and so on. people also swap forester suspensions onto older outbacks and imprezas, totally bolt on.
People offroad the crap out of them. My WRX which is 1" lower than stock on upgraded suspension still is very very capable offroad. Ive been staggered at some of the places ive gotten or how easily i followed trucks and such that looked like they were working hard.
A thread of offroady subarus, kinda dilute though: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1228188
Some subaru imformatives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_MXK2nzt2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLkvqsQEV2Q
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
|
This is just anecdotal evidence, but it's been enough for me to not consider Subarus. I have had three friends who could not get 150k miles out of their Outbacks. All were bought new, and all suffered catastrophic engine failure, one at just over 130k miles. One of the three was a complete lemon that required multiple four figure repairs before going finally going caput. Until Subaru has gone many years without reported problems, I will avoid them.
I think your friends results are far out of the ordinary, there are so many variables with a car experience, just like a bad restaurant review. Perhaps they didnt maintain it properly, or took it to people who dont do good or honest work. So many things can go wrong in so many places to ruin something thats otherwise good. Our local suby dealer is awful, I drove a couple hours away to buy my car. Our local shops arent very good either. Both could ruin a good car. Most of subarus problems are known, and there arent many.
My car had one of subarus known problems, and they handled it well in my case. A smog pump with 2 valves in the system is known to fail, allowing water to enter and rot the insides of those 3 parts, throwing a check engine light. Mine took until 145k miles to fail after living its whole life in the snowy winters every year, and when I contacted cust svc at subaru of america, they paid half of the $2100 repair. Pretty good for a 145k mi car I think. The problem is one that didnt qualify for recall, but they have granted many 'good faith' repairs like mine. Also well documented on the internet forums.
The cylinder head gasket issues on the 97-99 DOHC 2.5 engine are also well known of, as are the gauge cluster problems on the 99 outback as well.
I've reconsidered since this morning. I'm going to trade my Subi for something from GM. I need the added reliablity that would provide.
Dont be silly, you know you really want to trade "up" to a mopar, boy!
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
|
Own 2002 Outback, bought it new. Have about 180,000 miles on it. So far no serious problems. Best car I ever owned in terms of reliability and rain/snow/ice performance and decent cargo space. The 2.5 L engine can be pushed to a reasonable performance, I don't need anything stronger. If I were to look into new Subaru, my concern would be the front (nose) clearance and brakes size. Here in the mountains, the low gear is not low enough on the 2002, the car just wants to run, brakes are not big enough. I use the car for work, we drive mostly on old dirt roads here in the mountains chasing after vacant land. Great car. Would do it again, but not yet.
You would be psyched on a forester, they are cavernous inside and havent grown much outside. The approach angle is great and there is room for more tire if you wanted. Also based on the impreza, which has a larger parts bin and aftermarket, so down the road youll have options as things need replacing, like brakes. Also the new cvt seems to winning everyone over, and the new DI FA engines are a huge upgrade from your EJ.
The crosstrek is still evolving too, now that theyve got the hybrid thing out of the way, there is much speculation for one that is more powerful and more offroady. I bet something like that will come along, and at the rate crosstreks are selling, probably will see more models of it.
|
|
SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
|
My partner, Ferretlegger, is running his Outback (not sure which year, but back there), now at 234,000 miles. Obviously routine maintenance, and one catalytic rebuild or replacement. Fix of a significant oil leak a few years ago. A transmission adjustment which was pricey ($1k). Other than that, it keeps on and on and on.
Susan
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
|
still loving my Outback with 340,000+ miles
|
|
Anastasia
climber
Home
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
|
Well, since I usually keep my cars 10+ years. I'll let you know how things turn out on the repairs and overall cost of maintenance for the Audi. I bought the maintenance package to the car so it will be a few years before it become a direct out of pocket expense. So far no problems except it needs a wash. Oh and as it being an Allroad. The Audi isn't an off road car. Despite being four wheel drive with higher clearance, it's more for snow and can maybe handle a well maintained dirt road. Off road I am sure it will suck royally. Again, I don't think it's a good climber car.
Now don't feel bad for us, we also own a 4 wheel drive Toyota truck that we do off road and yes, we don't care about the paint job. Now that is our fun automobile. The car is our nice, go to weddings and cart the kids around town car. It's good for what I plan to use it for.
|
|
caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
|
forester doesn't fold flat in the back? I thought people were able to sleep in those, bummer if not true.
Also too bad honda stopped making elements.
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:23pm PT
|
Regardless of seats folding flat, the forester is shorter in length but has more space vertically than the outback. Youd have to be 5'5" or under to have a chance of sleeping comfortably in a Foz.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:26pm PT
|
I'd like to hear a little bit more detail about the approach/departure angles and sleeping capabilities about these two subies.
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:27pm PT
|
Those audis are fun to drive, and theyre not bad cars in themselves, theres just a certain level of upkeep $ you commit ti when you own a euro car, german or otherwise. My stepdad is a 30+ year volvo mechanic for 2 large bay area dealers, and he has always told me to stay away from any of the big euros, BMW, Volvo, Audi, MBZ, until you can "afford to own one, not just buy one"
Outside of the big tab every time something needed attending to, I enjoyed my S4 massively. It would not, however fit my lifestyle and budget.
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:29pm PT
|
From JD Power website:http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Subaru/Forester/2014/SUV/specs.htm
Approach angle 23 deg Departure angle 25 deg Ground clearance (min) 221mm (8.7") Ramp breakover angle 21 deg For 2014 forester.
Too early for 2015 specs, but these are for the outgoing OB, a 2013: (From cars101.com)
Dimensions
Wheelbase: 107.9"
Overall Length: 189 with the redesigned front bumper. (2010-2012 was 188.2")
Width: 71.7" includes folded-in outside mirrors, width with mirrors folded out: 81"
Height: 66.1" with crossbars in use, 65.7" with crossbars on rails, not used
Headroom front/rear: 40.8"/39.3"
Headroom with moonroof front/rear 38.7"/39.3"
Legroom front/rear: 43.0"/37.8"
EPA Interior passenger volume 105.4cf, with moonroof 102.4cf
EPA Cargo volume 34.3cf
EPA cargo volume with seats flat 71.3cf
**Track: front/rear 61/61"
Turning circle- 36.8ft. turns lock-to-lock 3.2
Ground clearance- 8.7"
Overhang front/rear 38.8"/42.3"
Angle of approach- 18.3*
Breakover angle- 2.5L 20.4*, 3.6L 19.5*
angle of departure- 22.2***
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
|
Quoted for bottom of page-ness:
T
From JD Power website:http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Subaru/Forester/2014/SUV/specs.htm
Approach angle 23 deg Departure angle 25 deg Ground clearance (min) 221mm (8.7") Ramp breakover angle 21 deg
For 2014 forester.
Too early for 2015 specs, but these are for the outgoing OB, a 2013: (From cars101.com)
Dimensions
Wheelbase: 107.9"
Overall Length: 189 with the redesigned front bumper. (2010-2012 was 188.2")
Width: 71.7" includes folded-in outside mirrors, width with mirrors folded out: 81"
Height: 66.1" with crossbars in use, 65.7" with crossbars on rails, not used
Headroom front/rear: 40.8"/39.3"
Headroom with moonroof front/rear 38.7"/39.3"
Legroom front/rear: 43.0"/37.8"
EPA Interior passenger volume 105.4cf, with moonroof 102.4cf
EPA Cargo volume 34.3cf
EPA cargo volume with seats flat 71.3cf
**Track: front/rear 61/61"
Turning circle- 36.8ft. turns lock-to-lock 3.2
Ground clearance- 8.7"
Overhang front/rear 38.8"/42.3"
Angle of approach- 18.3*
Breakover angle- 2.5L 20.4*, 3.6L 19.5*
angle of departure- 22.2***
|
|
Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
|
I think your friends results are far out of the ordinary, there are so many variables with a car experience, just like a bad restaurant review. Perhaps they didnt maintain it properly, or took it to people who dont do good or honest work.
Nope. I'm a critical thinker and I've asked about things like maintenance and mechanics, since I was looking into getting a vehicle at the time. Two of them only used dealers, and the third was a fairly reputable mechanic, and all three are not the type to fall down on oil changes. Maybe it is out of the ordinary, but these people got lemons, period. I couldn't recommend Subaru for this reason.
|
|
murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 07:11pm PT
|
The forester and outback have different engines
I might be wrong, but everything I read tells me that the Outback has had the new FB engine since 2013.
|
|
BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
|
Youre right, I get confused by FA, FB, and EJ and which is in what. Theyve never had so many different engines ever.
Rankin that sucks, ive heard similar only a few times. Probability I guess. Conversely I know people who have bought a used land rover, against all odds and history, and the thing has never broken. Go figure.
|
|
John Morton
climber
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2014 - 11:16pm PT
|
My 2000 Legacy wagon has been almost flawless to 200K, though it could sure use a low gear. I would not get a new Subaru because:
1. Plain Legacy is gone, there is only Outback now, and the large cost premium over the Legacy is for stuff I don't need.
2. Styling has gone the way of all Japanese and American vehicles, taller with a down-sloping window line and black glass. Lousy rear visibility, and the back seat view is like being in a tour bus. I think some Japanese designers copied a Nike running shoe, and the Americans copied the Japanese. The Germans seem to be resisting this.
|
|
caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
|
|
|
Apr 26, 2014 - 01:53am PT
|
Land rover! Holy poop. Never buy one. Super fun vehicles but god help you if you ever need to do the brakes or worse get a real repair.
|
|
Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
|
|
|
Apr 26, 2014 - 08:49am PT
|
Thread drift.
Jeep is now making a pretty cool climber car. Diesel Grand Cherokee. Serious off road chops. Seats fold flat in the back for sleeping. 31.5 mpg highway. And it's got enough snot to tow 7200 lbs if you need that capability. It's not cheap but it's very cool.
Perhaps the coolest off-road feature is the ground clearance. The normal minimum ground clearance is 8.7". With the push of a button the thing rises up and then the ground clearance is 11.6". Fun.
|
|
anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
|
|
|
Apr 26, 2014 - 09:15am PT
|
I had a 99 Subaru Legacy GT from 2003 until it died in about 2011.
head gasket set me back 3k.
I loved the AWD for Quebec winters. never got stuck, never needed to shovel myself out. rust patches were easily covered with climbing stickers.
I also am not a fan of the new Outback styling. it looks so big and bulky, very american looking. my fave Outbacks were from 2005-2010 or so, before the newest ones. they used to be sleek looking, for a wagon. now they just look vulgar.
I now drive a VW Golf Wagon (Jetta wagon in US) TDI. it's great for road trips, sleeps 2 in the back no problem and with diesel, I can drive down to the Gunks and back on 1 tank. only complaint is no AWD/4-motion and ideally, I'd need a roof box to store gear so we can sleep without having all the gear up on the dashboard.
Panoramic sunroof, satellite radio = great for road trips too
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!