new Subarus -- Forester and Outback

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 21 - 40 of total 115 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
enjoimx

Trad climber
SLO
Apr 25, 2014 - 03:05am PT
Weird question and I don't mean to hijack your thread. I have been thinking about thisalot lately as my car is getting old, looks kinda crappy, doesn't get the best gas mileage anymore, and doesn't carry all of the stuff I need....

Anyway, my moral dilemma involves whether or not I SHOULD get a new car. It seems like people don't think twice about purchasing a second vehicle, a vehicle for each child, if their kids don't like the car after a few years: graduation present, new car.

Where are all of these old cars going?? They are being sold to people with slightly lower amounts to spend on cars. But they sure as hell, generally, are t being recycled. The sheer number of vehicles must be rising much much faster than the population. But are more more more cars on the road really a good or responsible thing to perpetuate???? When is the last time someone with expendable income said "hey I want a new car, I can afford it, I'll just recycle my old car". No way anyone does that. They sell their car to the highest bidder or give it away to a friend or family member.

The number of cars must be exponentially rising. How can you justify buying yourself a new one?

I really am curious, not attempting to insult anyone. I just see new cars on the road every day, and I am wondering how people don't feel guilty for perpetuating this massive industry that is a representation of the "consume and discard" culture we live in. But this isn't a piece of cardboard that you are consuming and discarding, it is a polluting vehicle with tons of electronics, batteries, plastic etc that still runs and will no doubt continue to be used for years to come, but you just want something more "shiny" to demonstrate social status, or carry your kayak, or go "off roading", or impress colleagues and coworkers.

Anyone care to comment?

Thanks
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 03:10am PT
The forester and outback have different engines, do yourself a favor and go to nasioc.com, news and rumors, and read up on the new forester and the new outback. The new forester has the great new FA type 2.0 DI engine, the outback doesnt. Apples and oranges the two vehicles are. The new FA engine in the forester is direct injected and is a huge leap forward, it has also been out for a year now. The new XT forester is the only turbo version of the new FA engine and it gets great reviews. The new impreza, WRX, and forester are the only awd subarus to get the new FA series engine with direct injection. The EJ engine which has been around since the early 90's or before, is still in use during the overlap of R&D for the FA series. The new outback is still using the EJ engine. The FA is in the impreza and crosstrek and WRX, the forester, and BRZ. The EJ is in the new STI, and legacy/outback. The EJ probably wont be around for much longer as the rest of R&D is carried out.

thread for new outback/legacy: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2584661

thread for 2014 forester: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2411670&highlight=forester

resource for learning about subaru models and such: cars101.com

The crosstrek is just a lifted impreza, but the forester is also a version of a lifted impreza, always has been, the forester has always been built upon the impreza underpinnings and chassis. The new outback seems more luxury/CUV biased, whereas the forester has more actual offroad ability/utility, etc. Also the door sills on the forester are engineered to where you wont get your pantslegs dirty getting in and out of your dirty car, a great subtle design feature.

Subarus new CVTs are a great leap forward and are something you would actually want to own, theyve been getting rave reviews even in the new WRX.

Audi does not make any parts for subaru. their awd systems are bespoke for each. Audis is a torsen type system.

Audi ownership isnt all its cracked up to be, I quickly got rid of mine (an S4) as it costs a lot to own and the reliability isnt even in the same galaxy, dependent on use. The costs to own made it not very enjoyable.

I am on my seventh subaru, a 2006 wrx wagon, bought new, with now 186,000 miles and love it as much as I did when I bought it. Never left me stranded, costs little to nothing to own. Didnt need a clutch until 150,000, just put new CV shafts on it, didnt even need a battery until 135,000.

The 3.6 6 cylinder is not as powerful as it seems on paper, its torque curve and peak power are not as usable as the EJ25, and are far less than the FA20DI and FA20DIT.

Ignore ec, technology has come a long way since your 1972 whatever...
John M

climber
Apr 25, 2014 - 03:25am PT
When is the last time someone with expendable income said "hey I want a new car, I can afford it, I'll just recycle my old car".

In my opinion this would be silly. The resources have already been used to manufacture the auto. So nothing is really saved by recycling it before its use is up. In fact that would be wasteful. The car has already been manufactured.

the frequency which we purchase new vehicles has more to do with conserving resources then does recycling a vehicle that still has use.

My only problem with reducing how often people buy new vehicles is that if people reduce their buying of new cars, then the prices of used vehicles will go up, which would hurt me as that is all that I can afford. So keep buying those new cars people… haha..
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 03:45am PT
Mazda does make a great car, their engineers get it. Ive had several over the years from rotary powered cars to MPV to mazda 3, they are great, but there is no AWD in their lineup that appeals to me, the CX series are good cars, but their AWD is inferior. The only good AWD on the market today is made by subaru, audi, and honda with their new SH-AWD, not their crappy old real time.

If you did find a used mazdaspeed6, grab it! AWD and turbo power, a great underdog car with good reliability from what ive heard.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 03:49am PT
Not a fan of hybrids, im curious to see how the hybrid XV turns out to be. I bet its a gutless turd. Besides, hybrids still are dirty to manufacture, nickel mining is not clean. You see $ savings at the pump, but the rest of the environmental impact is there, but not visible on the everyday. Most of it took place in the manufacture of the batteries, which happens on several different continents, shipped by vessels that are powered by fossil fuels.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:36am PT
Current forester handles better, quiter better mileage, 2015 out back will prolly beat the forester again though!

Drive both!!!
Mazda cx5 is also pretty sweet
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 25, 2014 - 06:48am PT
The mecanics that I use for stuff out of my leage tell me that every subaru they see the head gaskets leak. It's only a question of how much they leak not if they leak. Says he can do a subi head gasket blindfolded he has done so many of them...
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 07:07am PT
The mecanics that I use for stuff out of my leage tell me that every subaru they see the head gaskets leak. It's only a question of how much they leak not if they leak. Says he can do a subi head gasket blindfolded he has done so many of them...

Dead wrong. There was one engine, from 1996-1999, the EJ25 with DOHC heads that had chronic head gasket issues, with burning of cylinder #3 exhaust valves. A retrofit with the upgraded head gasket will eliminate the problem. Your 'mecanic' out of your 'leage' is dead wrong. Any car, if not cared for properly, will have problems. Dead wrong. This kind of misinformation is what causes problems for people.

I live in a snow town, predominantly subarus and toyota tacomas here, you would think the local auto shops and mechanics would be adept and/or talented at repairing the most commonly driven vehicles in town, but they arent. The honest ones arent adept, and the adept arent honest. I suspect you are having a similar experience with your 'mecanic'. The repairs and maintenance I dont perform myself, I take my car 45 miles eastward into nevada for quality service.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 07:17am PT
Current forester handles better, quiter better mileage, 2015 out back will prolly beat the forester again though!

Drive both!!!
Mazda cx5 is also pretty sweet

The outback and forester are growing farther and farther apart, and are becoming less equal to each other. They have different consumer followings and thus have evolved into different segments.

The forester has always been built sharing the same platform as the impreza. The impreza has historically inherited the previous generation's legacy platform (legacy and outback are always the same platform). The forester performs differently because of this.

Right now, subaru is in transition toward its new engine, the FA series, the first truly new engine design since the inception of the outgoing EJ engine brought about in approximately 1990. The new outback and legacy are still using the EJ25.

The two cars really are apples and oranges more than ever. Personally, if I was in the market, it would be Forester all the way. I like the new engine, many differences, one being the use of a timing chain rather than the timing belt, as well as using direct injection. look on youtube, you will find video of foresters following modified jeeps on some trails, on stock tires, doing very very well.

CX5 is a great car, but hardly anything Id take on dirt road regularly, let alone any sort of off roading. It has awd, but that is a vague term, most awd does not drive all wheels.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 25, 2014 - 07:21am PT
I do not drive a subi. Just relating what the mechanic said. also had a few friends need head gasket repair on subies.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 25, 2014 - 08:00am PT
^^^ agreed. I used to drive really beater old hondas and toyotas, even a 3 cylinder Geo Metro. Always thought how funny it is that people will buy a new Prius thinking they are 'saving the planet' while never thinking about what goes into making the car, including a huge battery.... and what happens to the battery when it dies.

or an Audi allroad.

aside from the $120 oil changes from the dealer, a friend just had all airbags replaced at 90k, wait for it... $2000 PER Wheel! LMAO! 8k will buy a pretty good car for most of us.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Apr 25, 2014 - 08:30am PT
If Outback is getting an overhaul, wait for another year. I thought the "don't buy a new model year car" was out of date advice, but after a 100% satisfactory experience with a 1998 2.5 Outback up to 150,000 miles, the first brand new car I ever bought was a 2005 Outback. Basically the same as the previous car, except for all the small things that weren't as good, and needed another year of customer feedback to get fixed. The a/c was crap, front headlight bulbs lasted only a few months, factory tires were crap, and despite claims that the head gasket problem was solved years ago, at 101,000 miles it started leaking. Time to abandon ship.

On the plus side, absolutely great car in the mud or snow, or even dry winding roads (once factory Pirelli's were replaced), I never found the 2.5 underpowered, but it's not a sports car and I had no towing needs.

Despite the problems, I'd probably have bought another except that we needed a better family car, that rear seat is a squeeze for three kids, probably just intended for Lesbians and their dogs...

TE
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Apr 25, 2014 - 08:54am PT
So for you folks in the know, which is the most off road friendly; the forester or outback?

I'm not looking to do jeep trails per say, but do sometimes get pretty close to pushing the limits.
Lanthade

climber
Apr 25, 2014 - 10:08am PT
Bought a new 2014 outback premium manual last summer. I've put a little over 10k miles on it so far. Mpg is good if you drive it with that in mind. Performance is good if you run the rpm high. Handles great in snow and related mess. Haven't gotten it into the mountains or on rough approach yet. Haven't towed with it yet either, but if I can get a trailer with brakes I'll probably be moving a ton of concrete soon with it. My only complaint was how much they limited the upgrades on the manual. I love driving manual and I would have happily given them a lot more money for things like a sunroof and backup camera. If the news that their cutting the manual is true (so sad) then I'm really glad I bought last summer.

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 25, 2014 - 10:48am PT
""So for you folks in the know, which is the most off road friendly; the forester or outback?

I'm not looking to do jeep trails per say, but do sometimes get pretty close to pushing the limits.""



I go with Yafer, 4 weelin in his 13 outback. 6 speed... good clearance, good traction ... we have gone deep into the desert on 4x4 roads.
Barbarian

climber
Apr 25, 2014 - 11:26am PT
I have a 2014 Outback 2.5i Premium and love it. I considered getting a Forester, but the back seat did not lay completely flat which made sleeping in the back an issue. I also like to longer wheelbase and resulting extra cargo room. My son races mountain bikes and I able to put the bike in the back of the Outback. I also have a rack which fits perfectly on the stock crossbars.
I have had no issues with power. The 2.5 has plenty of get up and go; it has not bogged down on any of the grades I have driven. The paddle shifters are a nice touch and allow you to zip down grades without removing your hands from the wheel.
Mileage is awesome. I am getting 24-25 mpg in true SoCal city driving. I am also getting 30-32 mpg on the highway.
My wife likes that it doesn't ride like truck and that it has butt warmer seats.
My only regret with the car is that I didn't buy one sooner.

Edit: I'll also add that the car has some serious front and back legroom. My brother (6' 4") can sit comfortably in the back seat with me driving.
Cost $26,000 even.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 25, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
I wonder how many people who go for the idea of an AWD vehicle actually need it? I guess if you go in snow a lot, it justifies itself pretty quickly. But for off-roading, you have to get into pretty serious stuff before you need AWD. Much more important is vehicle clearance and length of the wheel base. You can always hit deep sand too which needs the AWD, but just having a little higher clearance gets you through TONS of remote forest service roads and most places you can avoid deep sand. It is only a rare moment that I get turned back in my Toyota Prius. I have pined at times for a version with a winch on the front, and a big metal spike to drive into the ground for an anchor.
Alois

Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
Apr 25, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
Own 2002 Outback, bought it new. Have about 180,000 miles on it. So far no serious problems. Best car I ever owned in terms of reliability and rain/snow/ice performance and decent cargo space. The 2.5 L engine can be pushed to a reasonable performance, I don't need anything stronger. If I were to look into new Subaru, my concern would be the front (nose) clearance and brakes size. Here in the mountains, the low gear is not low enough on the 2002, the car just wants to run, brakes are not big enough. I use the car for work, we drive mostly on old dirt roads here in the mountains chasing after vacant land. Great car. Would do it again, but not yet.
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Apr 25, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
This is just anecdotal evidence, but it's been enough for me to not consider Subarus. I have had three friends who could not get 150k miles out of their Outbacks. All were bought new, and all suffered catastrophic engine failure, one at just over 130k miles. One of the three was a complete lemon that required multiple four figure repairs before going finally going caput. Until Subaru has gone many years without reported problems, I will avoid them.
Barbarian

climber
Apr 25, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
I've reconsidered since this morning. I'm going to trade my Subi for something from GM. I need the added reliablity that would provide.
Messages 21 - 40 of total 115 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta