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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 24, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
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anyone drive one of these lately? The Forester has been favorably-reviewed by pretty much every rag (e.g. Consumer Reports, Motor Trend), but the Outback just came out with a an overhaul.
I was leaning toward an Outback until I read that the 2015 model will not have a manual transmission option. so maybe I'll get a Forester (w/manual)
or an Audi allroad.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Apr 24, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
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I'm looking at them as well. Initially I was looking at the Forester, but it is not available with a 6 cylinder (I hate under powered vehicles). Now I'm looking at an Outback (2014). I'm done with manual trannys.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Apr 24, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
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Hey multi million $$ Craggy; which Outback model do you have?
edit: just funning with you.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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Apr 24, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
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I have the 2014 forester and love it, way better then the 2014 outback, 2015 may be different though!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Apr 24, 2014 - 09:37pm PT
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So do the Foresters have enough get up and go to get up the Sherwin grade without getting run over?
So Subie has a decently powered 4 cyl.?
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Apr 24, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
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Interesting. You don't find the 2.5 under powered? My last subie was a '72 (I think) and it sucked on uphills.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Apr 24, 2014 - 09:59pm PT
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Ezra- Why do you think the Forester is better than the Outback?
How do you like Jim's whammer?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 24, 2014 - 10:05pm PT
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I loved my Outback...would've kept that thing forever, except I needed the hauling capacity of a truck.
Shame that they will be doing away with manual transmissions, though...I greatly prefer that kind of vehicle control.
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ec
climber
ca
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Apr 24, 2014 - 10:09pm PT
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Subaru = POS
In My Experienced Opinion
Please reference other threads.
 ec
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Apr 24, 2014 - 10:18pm PT
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The 2.5 has plenty of power, since these are not sports cars.
The Forester has better approach and departure angles.
The manual transmission sucks for going slow uphill over rocks - you have to slip the clutch until it smokes.
the 70s-80s subarus were slow, but at least had a Hi-lo transfer case, which you can't get in USA anymore. The automatic, now CVT, is better unless you want a WRX type car.
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Betelnut
Mountain climber
So. California
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Apr 24, 2014 - 10:23pm PT
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Well, the Forester is more of an SUV. I'll leave out the stuff about it being the #1 favorite of lesbians. Oops. Hey, nothing wrong with that!
The '15 Outback adds slightly better mileage, refined styling, better features (standard back-up camera, quieter ride) and more options (blind spot warning, etc.).
Great snow car.
PS: ignore ec
PSS: Audi All Road is nice but forget carrying passengers in the back seats unless they are little people.
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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Apr 24, 2014 - 10:27pm PT
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We own a new Audi Allroad. I personally think the Forester has way more room and is more a climber car than the Audi.
Why? Both Subarus are already set up for dirt with the proper rubber liners, they have really cool electrical outlets everywhere which are useful, their cargo holds are larger, and their repair costs are cheaper.
I chose the Audi because... Well, I simply am a sucker for how it drives. When I test drove the Forester and Outback... I found their reflexes "boring." The Audi is so much fun... It's almost too fun. Plus, I got a really good deal on the Audi that made it irresistible. Now would I trade my Audi for a Subaru... Actually No. Yet... If cost became and issue, I would give it up because simply... A car shouldn't cost more than you can afford and the Audi can go bad like that.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Apr 24, 2014 - 10:34pm PT
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The Audi is so much fun... It's almost too fun.
Go Speed Racer Go!
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DesertRatExpeditions
Trad climber
Flagstaff, Arizona
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Apr 24, 2014 - 11:10pm PT
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I've owned two Outbacks now, and I love them. They seem to be consistently good for about 300k miles and go most anywhere I want to, at least in the forest environs ( I have my truck for the deserts). Fuel mileage is also about the best I can find in the AWD(not just street) non-hybrid market.
I was really thinking about getting the 2015 sometime next year, because I heard they were releasing the outback with the 2.0 Turbo(currently in the Forester) to replace the 6-cylinder. Of course they didn't do this, so I might have to wait a bit longer. I do have to say the '15 Outback still looks pretty sweet.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 24, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
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If you want more power, get the turbo Forester XT. Mine did 90 up hill to Park City no problem. Handled well, OK mileage.
An Audi All-Road would be very nice, but I've heard bad things about reliability and repair costs.
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ec
climber
ca
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Apr 24, 2014 - 11:53pm PT
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The only good thing is that Audi makes the 4x for Subaru
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:49am PT
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Mazda 3 wagon. 38mpg highway and it's $20k out the door.
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:59am PT
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^ a Forester is way more vehicle for same price as Crosstrek basically (which is just a lifted Impreza).
Even as a manual shift fan, the new CVTs are getting better mpg, and hopefully are just as reliable. I always choose manuals for these two reasons, which are finally being surpassed.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
SLO
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Apr 25, 2014 - 03:05am PT
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Weird question and I don't mean to hijack your thread. I have been thinking about thisalot lately as my car is getting old, looks kinda crappy, doesn't get the best gas mileage anymore, and doesn't carry all of the stuff I need....
Anyway, my moral dilemma involves whether or not I SHOULD get a new car. It seems like people don't think twice about purchasing a second vehicle, a vehicle for each child, if their kids don't like the car after a few years: graduation present, new car.
Where are all of these old cars going?? They are being sold to people with slightly lower amounts to spend on cars. But they sure as hell, generally, are t being recycled. The sheer number of vehicles must be rising much much faster than the population. But are more more more cars on the road really a good or responsible thing to perpetuate???? When is the last time someone with expendable income said "hey I want a new car, I can afford it, I'll just recycle my old car". No way anyone does that. They sell their car to the highest bidder or give it away to a friend or family member.
The number of cars must be exponentially rising. How can you justify buying yourself a new one?
I really am curious, not attempting to insult anyone. I just see new cars on the road every day, and I am wondering how people don't feel guilty for perpetuating this massive industry that is a representation of the "consume and discard" culture we live in. But this isn't a piece of cardboard that you are consuming and discarding, it is a polluting vehicle with tons of electronics, batteries, plastic etc that still runs and will no doubt continue to be used for years to come, but you just want something more "shiny" to demonstrate social status, or carry your kayak, or go "off roading", or impress colleagues and coworkers.
Anyone care to comment?
Thanks
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 03:10am PT
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The forester and outback have different engines, do yourself a favor and go to nasioc.com, news and rumors, and read up on the new forester and the new outback. The new forester has the great new FA type 2.0 DI engine, the outback doesnt. Apples and oranges the two vehicles are. The new FA engine in the forester is direct injected and is a huge leap forward, it has also been out for a year now. The new XT forester is the only turbo version of the new FA engine and it gets great reviews. The new impreza, WRX, and forester are the only awd subarus to get the new FA series engine with direct injection. The EJ engine which has been around since the early 90's or before, is still in use during the overlap of R&D for the FA series. The new outback is still using the EJ engine. The FA is in the impreza and crosstrek and WRX, the forester, and BRZ. The EJ is in the new STI, and legacy/outback. The EJ probably wont be around for much longer as the rest of R&D is carried out.
thread for new outback/legacy: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2584661
thread for 2014 forester: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2411670&highlight=forester
resource for learning about subaru models and such: cars101.com
The crosstrek is just a lifted impreza, but the forester is also a version of a lifted impreza, always has been, the forester has always been built upon the impreza underpinnings and chassis. The new outback seems more luxury/CUV biased, whereas the forester has more actual offroad ability/utility, etc. Also the door sills on the forester are engineered to where you wont get your pantslegs dirty getting in and out of your dirty car, a great subtle design feature.
Subarus new CVTs are a great leap forward and are something you would actually want to own, theyve been getting rave reviews even in the new WRX.
Audi does not make any parts for subaru. their awd systems are bespoke for each. Audis is a torsen type system.
Audi ownership isnt all its cracked up to be, I quickly got rid of mine (an S4) as it costs a lot to own and the reliability isnt even in the same galaxy, dependent on use. The costs to own made it not very enjoyable.
I am on my seventh subaru, a 2006 wrx wagon, bought new, with now 186,000 miles and love it as much as I did when I bought it. Never left me stranded, costs little to nothing to own. Didnt need a clutch until 150,000, just put new CV shafts on it, didnt even need a battery until 135,000.
The 3.6 6 cylinder is not as powerful as it seems on paper, its torque curve and peak power are not as usable as the EJ25, and are far less than the FA20DI and FA20DIT.
Ignore ec, technology has come a long way since your 1972 whatever...
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John M
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 03:25am PT
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When is the last time someone with expendable income said "hey I want a new car, I can afford it, I'll just recycle my old car".
In my opinion this would be silly. The resources have already been used to manufacture the auto. So nothing is really saved by recycling it before its use is up. In fact that would be wasteful. The car has already been manufactured.
the frequency which we purchase new vehicles has more to do with conserving resources then does recycling a vehicle that still has use.
My only problem with reducing how often people buy new vehicles is that if people reduce their buying of new cars, then the prices of used vehicles will go up, which would hurt me as that is all that I can afford. So keep buying those new cars people… haha..
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 03:45am PT
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Mazda does make a great car, their engineers get it. Ive had several over the years from rotary powered cars to MPV to mazda 3, they are great, but there is no AWD in their lineup that appeals to me, the CX series are good cars, but their AWD is inferior. The only good AWD on the market today is made by subaru, audi, and honda with their new SH-AWD, not their crappy old real time.
If you did find a used mazdaspeed6, grab it! AWD and turbo power, a great underdog car with good reliability from what ive heard.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 03:49am PT
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Not a fan of hybrids, im curious to see how the hybrid XV turns out to be. I bet its a gutless turd. Besides, hybrids still are dirty to manufacture, nickel mining is not clean. You see $ savings at the pump, but the rest of the environmental impact is there, but not visible on the everyday. Most of it took place in the manufacture of the batteries, which happens on several different continents, shipped by vessels that are powered by fossil fuels.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:36am PT
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Current forester handles better, quiter better mileage, 2015 out back will prolly beat the forester again though!
Drive both!!!
Mazda cx5 is also pretty sweet
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:48am PT
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The mecanics that I use for stuff out of my leage tell me that every subaru they see the head gaskets leak. It's only a question of how much they leak not if they leak. Says he can do a subi head gasket blindfolded he has done so many of them...
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 07:07am PT
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The mecanics that I use for stuff out of my leage tell me that every subaru they see the head gaskets leak. It's only a question of how much they leak not if they leak. Says he can do a subi head gasket blindfolded he has done so many of them...
Dead wrong. There was one engine, from 1996-1999, the EJ25 with DOHC heads that had chronic head gasket issues, with burning of cylinder #3 exhaust valves. A retrofit with the upgraded head gasket will eliminate the problem. Your 'mecanic' out of your 'leage' is dead wrong. Any car, if not cared for properly, will have problems. Dead wrong. This kind of misinformation is what causes problems for people.
I live in a snow town, predominantly subarus and toyota tacomas here, you would think the local auto shops and mechanics would be adept and/or talented at repairing the most commonly driven vehicles in town, but they arent. The honest ones arent adept, and the adept arent honest. I suspect you are having a similar experience with your 'mecanic'. The repairs and maintenance I dont perform myself, I take my car 45 miles eastward into nevada for quality service.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 07:17am PT
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Current forester handles better, quiter better mileage, 2015 out back will prolly beat the forester again though!
Drive both!!!
Mazda cx5 is also pretty sweet
The outback and forester are growing farther and farther apart, and are becoming less equal to each other. They have different consumer followings and thus have evolved into different segments.
The forester has always been built sharing the same platform as the impreza. The impreza has historically inherited the previous generation's legacy platform (legacy and outback are always the same platform). The forester performs differently because of this.
Right now, subaru is in transition toward its new engine, the FA series, the first truly new engine design since the inception of the outgoing EJ engine brought about in approximately 1990. The new outback and legacy are still using the EJ25.
The two cars really are apples and oranges more than ever. Personally, if I was in the market, it would be Forester all the way. I like the new engine, many differences, one being the use of a timing chain rather than the timing belt, as well as using direct injection. look on youtube, you will find video of foresters following modified jeeps on some trails, on stock tires, doing very very well.
CX5 is a great car, but hardly anything Id take on dirt road regularly, let alone any sort of off roading. It has awd, but that is a vague term, most awd does not drive all wheels.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 25, 2014 - 07:21am PT
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I do not drive a subi. Just relating what the mechanic said. also had a few friends need head gasket repair on subies.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Apr 25, 2014 - 08:00am PT
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^^^ agreed. I used to drive really beater old hondas and toyotas, even a 3 cylinder Geo Metro. Always thought how funny it is that people will buy a new Prius thinking they are 'saving the planet' while never thinking about what goes into making the car, including a huge battery.... and what happens to the battery when it dies.
or an Audi allroad.
aside from the $120 oil changes from the dealer, a friend just had all airbags replaced at 90k, wait for it... $2000 PER Wheel! LMAO! 8k will buy a pretty good car for most of us.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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If Outback is getting an overhaul, wait for another year. I thought the "don't buy a new model year car" was out of date advice, but after a 100% satisfactory experience with a 1998 2.5 Outback up to 150,000 miles, the first brand new car I ever bought was a 2005 Outback. Basically the same as the previous car, except for all the small things that weren't as good, and needed another year of customer feedback to get fixed. The a/c was crap, front headlight bulbs lasted only a few months, factory tires were crap, and despite claims that the head gasket problem was solved years ago, at 101,000 miles it started leaking. Time to abandon ship.
On the plus side, absolutely great car in the mud or snow, or even dry winding roads (once factory Pirelli's were replaced), I never found the 2.5 underpowered, but it's not a sports car and I had no towing needs.
Despite the problems, I'd probably have bought another except that we needed a better family car, that rear seat is a squeeze for three kids, probably just intended for Lesbians and their dogs...
TE
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Apr 25, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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So for you folks in the know, which is the most off road friendly; the forester or outback?
I'm not looking to do jeep trails per say, but do sometimes get pretty close to pushing the limits.
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Lanthade
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:08am PT
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Bought a new 2014 outback premium manual last summer. I've put a little over 10k miles on it so far. Mpg is good if you drive it with that in mind. Performance is good if you run the rpm high. Handles great in snow and related mess. Haven't gotten it into the mountains or on rough approach yet. Haven't towed with it yet either, but if I can get a trailer with brakes I'll probably be moving a ton of concrete soon with it. My only complaint was how much they limited the upgrades on the manual. I love driving manual and I would have happily given them a lot more money for things like a sunroof and backup camera. If the news that their cutting the manual is true (so sad) then I'm really glad I bought last summer.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:48am PT
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""So for you folks in the know, which is the most off road friendly; the forester or outback?
I'm not looking to do jeep trails per say, but do sometimes get pretty close to pushing the limits.""
I go with Yafer, 4 weelin in his 13 outback. 6 speed... good clearance, good traction ... we have gone deep into the desert on 4x4 roads.
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Barbarian
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:26am PT
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I have a 2014 Outback 2.5i Premium and love it. I considered getting a Forester, but the back seat did not lay completely flat which made sleeping in the back an issue. I also like to longer wheelbase and resulting extra cargo room. My son races mountain bikes and I able to put the bike in the back of the Outback. I also have a rack which fits perfectly on the stock crossbars.
I have had no issues with power. The 2.5 has plenty of get up and go; it has not bogged down on any of the grades I have driven. The paddle shifters are a nice touch and allow you to zip down grades without removing your hands from the wheel.
Mileage is awesome. I am getting 24-25 mpg in true SoCal city driving. I am also getting 30-32 mpg on the highway.
My wife likes that it doesn't ride like truck and that it has butt warmer seats.
My only regret with the car is that I didn't buy one sooner.
Edit: I'll also add that the car has some serious front and back legroom. My brother (6' 4") can sit comfortably in the back seat with me driving.
Cost $26,000 even.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
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I wonder how many people who go for the idea of an AWD vehicle actually need it? I guess if you go in snow a lot, it justifies itself pretty quickly. But for off-roading, you have to get into pretty serious stuff before you need AWD. Much more important is vehicle clearance and length of the wheel base. You can always hit deep sand too which needs the AWD, but just having a little higher clearance gets you through TONS of remote forest service roads and most places you can avoid deep sand. It is only a rare moment that I get turned back in my Toyota Prius. I have pined at times for a version with a winch on the front, and a big metal spike to drive into the ground for an anchor.
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Alois
Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
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Own 2002 Outback, bought it new. Have about 180,000 miles on it. So far no serious problems. Best car I ever owned in terms of reliability and rain/snow/ice performance and decent cargo space. The 2.5 L engine can be pushed to a reasonable performance, I don't need anything stronger. If I were to look into new Subaru, my concern would be the front (nose) clearance and brakes size. Here in the mountains, the low gear is not low enough on the 2002, the car just wants to run, brakes are not big enough. I use the car for work, we drive mostly on old dirt roads here in the mountains chasing after vacant land. Great car. Would do it again, but not yet.
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
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This is just anecdotal evidence, but it's been enough for me to not consider Subarus. I have had three friends who could not get 150k miles out of their Outbacks. All were bought new, and all suffered catastrophic engine failure, one at just over 130k miles. One of the three was a complete lemon that required multiple four figure repairs before going finally going caput. Until Subaru has gone many years without reported problems, I will avoid them.
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Barbarian
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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I've reconsidered since this morning. I'm going to trade my Subi for something from GM. I need the added reliablity that would provide.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:44pm PT
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If you value offroad ability more, go forester. The approach angles are better, and the new ones have x mode which has hill descent mode plus another feature or two I cant remember offhand.
The older ones are just as capable, theyre shorter because theyre based on the impreza, but are higher to allow larger tires. There is aftermarket support to further lift them and so on. people also swap forester suspensions onto older outbacks and imprezas, totally bolt on.
People offroad the crap out of them. My WRX which is 1" lower than stock on upgraded suspension still is very very capable offroad. Ive been staggered at some of the places ive gotten or how easily i followed trucks and such that looked like they were working hard.
A thread of offroady subarus, kinda dilute though: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1228188
Some subaru imformatives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_MXK2nzt2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLkvqsQEV2Q
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
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This is just anecdotal evidence, but it's been enough for me to not consider Subarus. I have had three friends who could not get 150k miles out of their Outbacks. All were bought new, and all suffered catastrophic engine failure, one at just over 130k miles. One of the three was a complete lemon that required multiple four figure repairs before going finally going caput. Until Subaru has gone many years without reported problems, I will avoid them.
I think your friends results are far out of the ordinary, there are so many variables with a car experience, just like a bad restaurant review. Perhaps they didnt maintain it properly, or took it to people who dont do good or honest work. So many things can go wrong in so many places to ruin something thats otherwise good. Our local suby dealer is awful, I drove a couple hours away to buy my car. Our local shops arent very good either. Both could ruin a good car. Most of subarus problems are known, and there arent many.
My car had one of subarus known problems, and they handled it well in my case. A smog pump with 2 valves in the system is known to fail, allowing water to enter and rot the insides of those 3 parts, throwing a check engine light. Mine took until 145k miles to fail after living its whole life in the snowy winters every year, and when I contacted cust svc at subaru of america, they paid half of the $2100 repair. Pretty good for a 145k mi car I think. The problem is one that didnt qualify for recall, but they have granted many 'good faith' repairs like mine. Also well documented on the internet forums.
The cylinder head gasket issues on the 97-99 DOHC 2.5 engine are also well known of, as are the gauge cluster problems on the 99 outback as well.
I've reconsidered since this morning. I'm going to trade my Subi for something from GM. I need the added reliablity that would provide.
Dont be silly, you know you really want to trade "up" to a mopar, boy!
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
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Own 2002 Outback, bought it new. Have about 180,000 miles on it. So far no serious problems. Best car I ever owned in terms of reliability and rain/snow/ice performance and decent cargo space. The 2.5 L engine can be pushed to a reasonable performance, I don't need anything stronger. If I were to look into new Subaru, my concern would be the front (nose) clearance and brakes size. Here in the mountains, the low gear is not low enough on the 2002, the car just wants to run, brakes are not big enough. I use the car for work, we drive mostly on old dirt roads here in the mountains chasing after vacant land. Great car. Would do it again, but not yet.
You would be psyched on a forester, they are cavernous inside and havent grown much outside. The approach angle is great and there is room for more tire if you wanted. Also based on the impreza, which has a larger parts bin and aftermarket, so down the road youll have options as things need replacing, like brakes. Also the new cvt seems to winning everyone over, and the new DI FA engines are a huge upgrade from your EJ.
The crosstrek is still evolving too, now that theyve got the hybrid thing out of the way, there is much speculation for one that is more powerful and more offroady. I bet something like that will come along, and at the rate crosstreks are selling, probably will see more models of it.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
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My partner, Ferretlegger, is running his Outback (not sure which year, but back there), now at 234,000 miles. Obviously routine maintenance, and one catalytic rebuild or replacement. Fix of a significant oil leak a few years ago. A transmission adjustment which was pricey ($1k). Other than that, it keeps on and on and on.
Susan
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
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still loving my Outback with 340,000+ miles
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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Apr 25, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
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Well, since I usually keep my cars 10+ years. I'll let you know how things turn out on the repairs and overall cost of maintenance for the Audi. I bought the maintenance package to the car so it will be a few years before it become a direct out of pocket expense. So far no problems except it needs a wash. Oh and as it being an Allroad. The Audi isn't an off road car. Despite being four wheel drive with higher clearance, it's more for snow and can maybe handle a well maintained dirt road. Off road I am sure it will suck royally. Again, I don't think it's a good climber car.
Now don't feel bad for us, we also own a 4 wheel drive Toyota truck that we do off road and yes, we don't care about the paint job. Now that is our fun automobile. The car is our nice, go to weddings and cart the kids around town car. It's good for what I plan to use it for.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
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forester doesn't fold flat in the back? I thought people were able to sleep in those, bummer if not true.
Also too bad honda stopped making elements.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:23pm PT
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Regardless of seats folding flat, the forester is shorter in length but has more space vertically than the outback. Youd have to be 5'5" or under to have a chance of sleeping comfortably in a Foz.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:26pm PT
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I'd like to hear a little bit more detail about the approach/departure angles and sleeping capabilities about these two subies.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:27pm PT
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Those audis are fun to drive, and theyre not bad cars in themselves, theres just a certain level of upkeep $ you commit ti when you own a euro car, german or otherwise. My stepdad is a 30+ year volvo mechanic for 2 large bay area dealers, and he has always told me to stay away from any of the big euros, BMW, Volvo, Audi, MBZ, until you can "afford to own one, not just buy one"
Outside of the big tab every time something needed attending to, I enjoyed my S4 massively. It would not, however fit my lifestyle and budget.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:29pm PT
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From JD Power website:http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Subaru/Forester/2014/SUV/specs.htm
Approach angle 23 deg Departure angle 25 deg Ground clearance (min) 221mm (8.7") Ramp breakover angle 21 deg For 2014 forester.
Too early for 2015 specs, but these are for the outgoing OB, a 2013: (From cars101.com)
Dimensions
Wheelbase: 107.9"
Overall Length: 189 with the redesigned front bumper. (2010-2012 was 188.2")
Width: 71.7" includes folded-in outside mirrors, width with mirrors folded out: 81"
Height: 66.1" with crossbars in use, 65.7" with crossbars on rails, not used
Headroom front/rear: 40.8"/39.3"
Headroom with moonroof front/rear 38.7"/39.3"
Legroom front/rear: 43.0"/37.8"
EPA Interior passenger volume 105.4cf, with moonroof 102.4cf
EPA Cargo volume 34.3cf
EPA cargo volume with seats flat 71.3cf
**Track: front/rear 61/61"
Turning circle- 36.8ft. turns lock-to-lock 3.2
Ground clearance- 8.7"
Overhang front/rear 38.8"/42.3"
Angle of approach- 18.3*
Breakover angle- 2.5L 20.4*, 3.6L 19.5*
angle of departure- 22.2***
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
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Quoted for bottom of page-ness:
T
From JD Power website:http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Subaru/Forester/2014/SUV/specs.htm
Approach angle 23 deg Departure angle 25 deg Ground clearance (min) 221mm (8.7") Ramp breakover angle 21 deg
For 2014 forester.
Too early for 2015 specs, but these are for the outgoing OB, a 2013: (From cars101.com)
Dimensions
Wheelbase: 107.9"
Overall Length: 189 with the redesigned front bumper. (2010-2012 was 188.2")
Width: 71.7" includes folded-in outside mirrors, width with mirrors folded out: 81"
Height: 66.1" with crossbars in use, 65.7" with crossbars on rails, not used
Headroom front/rear: 40.8"/39.3"
Headroom with moonroof front/rear 38.7"/39.3"
Legroom front/rear: 43.0"/37.8"
EPA Interior passenger volume 105.4cf, with moonroof 102.4cf
EPA Cargo volume 34.3cf
EPA cargo volume with seats flat 71.3cf
**Track: front/rear 61/61"
Turning circle- 36.8ft. turns lock-to-lock 3.2
Ground clearance- 8.7"
Overhang front/rear 38.8"/42.3"
Angle of approach- 18.3*
Breakover angle- 2.5L 20.4*, 3.6L 19.5*
angle of departure- 22.2***
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
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I think your friends results are far out of the ordinary, there are so many variables with a car experience, just like a bad restaurant review. Perhaps they didnt maintain it properly, or took it to people who dont do good or honest work.
Nope. I'm a critical thinker and I've asked about things like maintenance and mechanics, since I was looking into getting a vehicle at the time. Two of them only used dealers, and the third was a fairly reputable mechanic, and all three are not the type to fall down on oil changes. Maybe it is out of the ordinary, but these people got lemons, period. I couldn't recommend Subaru for this reason.
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Apr 25, 2014 - 07:11pm PT
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The forester and outback have different engines
I might be wrong, but everything I read tells me that the Outback has had the new FB engine since 2013.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
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Youre right, I get confused by FA, FB, and EJ and which is in what. Theyve never had so many different engines ever.
Rankin that sucks, ive heard similar only a few times. Probability I guess. Conversely I know people who have bought a used land rover, against all odds and history, and the thing has never broken. Go figure.
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John Morton
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:16pm PT
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My 2000 Legacy wagon has been almost flawless to 200K, though it could sure use a low gear. I would not get a new Subaru because:
1. Plain Legacy is gone, there is only Outback now, and the large cost premium over the Legacy is for stuff I don't need.
2. Styling has gone the way of all Japanese and American vehicles, taller with a down-sloping window line and black glass. Lousy rear visibility, and the back seat view is like being in a tour bus. I think some Japanese designers copied a Nike running shoe, and the Americans copied the Japanese. The Germans seem to be resisting this.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Apr 26, 2014 - 01:53am PT
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Land rover! Holy poop. Never buy one. Super fun vehicles but god help you if you ever need to do the brakes or worse get a real repair.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Apr 26, 2014 - 08:49am PT
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Thread drift.
Jeep is now making a pretty cool climber car. Diesel Grand Cherokee. Serious off road chops. Seats fold flat in the back for sleeping. 31.5 mpg highway. And it's got enough snot to tow 7200 lbs if you need that capability. It's not cheap but it's very cool.
Perhaps the coolest off-road feature is the ground clearance. The normal minimum ground clearance is 8.7". With the push of a button the thing rises up and then the ground clearance is 11.6". Fun.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Apr 26, 2014 - 09:15am PT
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I had a 99 Subaru Legacy GT from 2003 until it died in about 2011.
head gasket set me back 3k.
I loved the AWD for Quebec winters. never got stuck, never needed to shovel myself out. rust patches were easily covered with climbing stickers.
I also am not a fan of the new Outback styling. it looks so big and bulky, very american looking. my fave Outbacks were from 2005-2010 or so, before the newest ones. they used to be sleek looking, for a wagon. now they just look vulgar.
I now drive a VW Golf Wagon (Jetta wagon in US) TDI. it's great for road trips, sleeps 2 in the back no problem and with diesel, I can drive down to the Gunks and back on 1 tank. only complaint is no AWD/4-motion and ideally, I'd need a roof box to store gear so we can sleep without having all the gear up on the dashboard.
Panoramic sunroof, satellite radio = great for road trips too
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John Morton
climber
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Apr 26, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
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I had a 99 Subaru Legacy GT from 2003 until it died in about 2011.
head gasket set me back 3k.
When my clutch went out at 185K I had the head gaskets changed at the same time as a defensive measure. This saves a lot on labor, merging two expensive jobs.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Apr 26, 2014 - 12:41pm PT
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The tdi Jetta wagon is getting released with awd/4motion this year
At least that's what I read on the internet.
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tarallo
Trad climber
italy
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Apr 27, 2014 - 04:39am PT
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I own a subaru outback boxer diesel lineartronic . i love it
150 hp very low fuel consuption
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 27, 2014 - 07:59pm PT
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Wish we got a diesel here, Ive heard of folks getting nearly 700 miles on a tank in those.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 27, 2014 - 08:06pm PT
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Yep, subarus are getting bigger, and the styling is changing. They are having to adjust to their buyers and focus groups. Gotta give people what they want, they are having consistently record sales. Hopefully they can cater to the common denominator enough to start making niche vehicles like they used to. If we want cool vehicles from them, they have to have their bread and butter.
Im not a fan of the outback's styling currently, the 2015 is slightly better. The one saving grace I do like is the interior has become cavernous while the exterior dimensions havent grown. not sure about the 2015 though.
Legacy wagon is gone, but legacy sedan is still here to stay. They make a wagon out of the new impreza platform for japan called the levorg that could easily be a replacement for the legacy wagon, both are for sale in Japan. It would definitely fill the void that is left where the legacy wagon used to be. Unlikely to come to the states though. We still have shown them by our buying habits and marketing/classification stupidity that we dont want wagons. They dont classify the outback as a wagon, which is unfortunate, because we cant see that its just a legacy wagon with a body lift and body cladding and larger wheel outside diameter.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 27, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
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Don't know about the new ones be we have an older Forester and Outback and love them. All wheel drive is awesome in snow country.
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Ben Emery
Trad climber
Australia via Bay Area via Australia...
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Apr 27, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
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I agree with a few of the comments above suggesting the Outback seems to be becoming more of a luxury wagon.
I have a 2010 model Forester (base model, no frills, manual transmission) which drives well and has been completely trouble-free for us (just clicked over 100K kilometers).
About the only thing I don't like about it is the new body is higher than the older models, making it harder to get the kayaks on the roof.
Oh, and my daughter complains that it smells, but I think that may have something to do with the climbing gear usually in the back and her discarded apple cores under the seat.
Other than that, no hesitations recommending them at all.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Apr 28, 2014 - 08:49am PT
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I'm on my second Outback.
They last forever.
I still have snow in my yard, as of April 28. It first fell and stayed middle of October. So I drive in snow almost every day for 6 months.
Compared to my 4Runner - well, it doesn't fell like there is snow because it handles so well - even better at high speeds on the highway. The only situation the 4Runner is better is deep snow (3-4') because the 4Runner has more clearance.
As far as off-roading the 4Runner is better because I have the offroad version. But getting to climbing areas in the Outback in the US is no problem - Canada's roads are usually deactivated logging roads which the outback handles well too.
I can sleep in the back of my outback - stretch out and I'm 6'2". Not in the 4Runner.
Gas is 50% the cost of the 4Runner, as are tires, as was the purchase price.
So yeah, I would buy one again, once I put another 200,000 miles on this one.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 28, 2014 - 10:57am PT
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The tdi Jetta wagon is getting released with awd/4motion this year
At least that's what I read on the internet.
This would be awesome. VW reliability is not quite as good as Subaru, but I'd love to have the diesel mileage and AWD.
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FGD135
Social climber
Boulder Canyon Colorado
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Apr 28, 2014 - 11:47am PT
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I drove (used) Toyota Tercel 4x4 wagons for over 17 years;, went thru three of them, always kept a spare parts car, and they were overall great little climbing/ski trip wagons, lots of room, easy to repair. I put a total of over 700k miles altogether;the last one I owned made it to 334,000 miles on the original engine, after replacing the manual tranny with a used one at 297k miles. I loved those cars, even if they were underpowered and rusted at the slightest drop of a hat.
That being said, the last one finally wouldn't pass emissions without an engine overhaul. I looked around seriously at small SUVs and eventually bought a new Forester, a 2012, and am very pleased with the decision. It's no speed demon, but can easily pull up I70 to the Ike Tunnel at the speed limit or above, and transitions to dirt roads with 6-8" of fresh snow driving into winter backcountry trailheads.
Audi wagon/crossovers are faster, probably the Volvo crossovers are too, but this thing is reliable and holds a pile of stuff. Summer highway mileage is about 31-33 mpg in Colorado mountains. I've not driven the 2014 with the new engine and longer wheelbase, but I would consider it if I needed another car.
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tarallo
Trad climber
italy
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Apr 28, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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i can run 900 or more km with a full of diesel it is fantastic!!!
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Barbarian
climber
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Apr 28, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
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Just back from a weekend trip from the OC to Lompoc and the Santa Ynez Valley and back. 2014 Outback loaded with 3 people, luggage, chairs, ice chest, and a roof mounted moutain bike. Lots of extra room. My son commented that he (6' tall) could sit in the back with his helmet on and still had headroom to spare.
Weather was high winds most of the way. Traffic was LA standard until Santa Barabara - not highway conditions. Drove over San Marcos pass instead of highway 101.
Car handled like a dream on all roads; plenty of power. I coulodn't feel the bike on top, but could hear the wind whistling through the spokes once the cross wind exceeded 35 mph. The car had plenty of ground clearance to navigate the cow pasture to the parking area. Overall mileage 27.4 mpg.
Bottom line: I'm keeping it.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2014 - 07:02pm PT
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Thread drift.
Jeep is now making a pretty cool climber car. Diesel Grand Cherokee. Serious off road chops. Seats fold flat in the back for sleeping. 31.5 mpg highway. And it's got enough snot to tow 7200 lbs if you need that capability. It's not cheap but it's very cool.
Perhaps the coolest off-road feature is the ground clearance. The normal minimum ground clearance is 8.7". With the push of a button the thing rises up and then the ground clearance is 11.6". Fun.
huh, wasn't aware of a diesel Grand Cherokee. looking into that now. gotta say I'm ambivalent about adjustable ground clearance. Is that a proven technology or is this beta tech? If it does go bad, I'm sure the fix will be costly
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Sheets
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 30, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
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Ya, I have the 2010 Forester base model (automatic) with about 80k on it. So far the car has been great. The AWD has definitely saved my ass a couple times.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 30, 2014 - 07:55pm PT
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huh, wasn't aware of a diesel Grand Cherokee. looking into that now. gotta say I'm ambivalent about adjustable ground clearance. Is that a proven technology or is this beta tech? If it does go bad, I'm sure the fix will be costly
Yeah, I've waffled on that diesel GC too. Problem is that it's not available on the lowest end model. You have to go up to the Limited. And it's a $4500 upgrade. Combine that with diesel being significantly more expensive than regular gas, and you've got to drive a lot of miles to justify it.
The air suspension is pretty well proven.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Apr 30, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
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I've owned two Outbacks and now I own a 3 year old Forrester. Loved the Outbacks, love my Forrester. Very reliable vehicles. All 3 were/are manuals.
I have traded/given away all my cars in for new ones at about 125-150K because that's when little or big issues seem to start happening, and as a women who travels alone a lot, I want the security/piece of mind of a newer vehicle. But my original Outback has over 300k on it and is still being driven by our friend for around town stuff.
From the climbers perspective, I like the Forrester a bit more for unpaved road stuff because it has better clearance. But Barbarian is right that it's harder to sleep in the back of the Forrester than the outback. The Forrester "feels" more like a truck than the Outbacks did. The outbacks felt like driving a typical station wagon.
I love the all wheel drive. I don't drive in snow much, but those vehicles feel great on the highway in torrential rain.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Apr 30, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
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just got a white outback 2014 - get one while you can still get the 6 spd manual !!
swelly i traded a 2012 fj cruiser in for the ru - 2 years in the canyon and the frame welds were already showing deep rust - keep an eye on the ass of that truck and prep the sh#t out of the frame NOW !!
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Also wasnt a fan of the FJ. Would rather have an actual truck. Didnt like how it drove on or off road and the visibility was abysmal.
Just tallying maintenance and repairs for my 2006 WRX wagon, 186k miles, original owner.
-Timing belt and water pump kit w/thermostat, done at 90k and 180k.
-Battery at 135k (it hadnt even failed yet)
-A/C idler pulley seized and spit the belt (only part to truly fail) at 180k
-A/C recharge at 135k
-Clutch at 150k mi, and I dont baby it, I do get on it a good bit, have autocrossed it a couple times even. Included a flywheel resurface.
-Both CV shafts, at 135k Rt and 180k Lt
-Rt axle seal w/shaft replace ($14)
-Redline synthetic gear oil, 3 rounds over the car's life (more frequent than the OEM oil but worth it)
-Power steering pump 180k
-Upgraded front brakes to DBA rotors, steel lines, good fluid, Hawk pads 65k mi; switched to Stoptech pads at 150k miles, much better bite, life, and less dust and noise. Hawks were too much pad for everyday use. Rear pads replaced with stoptechs at 160k.
-Struts at 70k miles, upgraded to Tokico D-spec adjustables with RCE wagon springs. Sublime.
-oil changes with synthetic after 36k miles every 5000 miles.
-Several sets of summer and winter tires along the way.
-Spark plugs twice replaced
-K&N air filter, only just bought and opened my 3rd cleaning /recharge kit.
Not bad for 186k miles, never broke down or left me stranded ever. Still gets factory mileage or better.
I have a left balljoint that will be replaced with the warrantied struts from Tokico when they arrive. I had a habit of treating my WRX like it was a Tacoma for a while there.
Now looking for a Tacoma to add to the quiver.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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A prime example of not knowing when to stop modifying your car.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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riced out merc
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Ultimate climbers vehicle
This baby has 290000 miles
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Kung Phu Panda
climber
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For what its worth.
I test drove the 2014 forester in January, and the back seats don't fully recline to flat. Its only a big deal if you plan on sleeping in the back. The new outbacks recline flat and 2 people can sleep in the back fairly easily.
phc
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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May 10, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
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OK- so I'm in negotiations for a 2015 Forester limited. Any more thoughts from the peanut gallery before I close?
edit: I'm struggling with difference in sleep ability versus approach angle between the Forester and Outback.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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May 10, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
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I would trade the ability to sleep in it for the ability to get around off road without messing up the bumper and such. Impreza chassis vs legacy chassis. Id go forester all the way and buy a tent instead.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2014 - 06:15pm PT
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I'm now leaning toward the allroad (pissed that Audi doesn't offer a manual though), but I'd take the Forester over the Outback. It's noticeably more competent on technical terrain. But either Subaru will get you up Buttermilk Road for sure
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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May 10, 2014 - 06:28pm PT
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Cheers folks!
Forester it is. I have too many tents.
edit: 90% of my driving is done on SoCal freeways/roads. I prefer a manual tranny for off road, but can't stand the constant shifting in SoCal traffic.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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May 10, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
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constant shifting in SoCal traffic
Good choice, automatic is better.
I'd never buy a new Forester. Not me. I've got 205,000 miles on my old Forester, no point in buying a new Forester when I still have another 95,000 miles remaining on this one.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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May 10, 2014 - 10:03pm PT
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After beating the snot out of two Outbacks...
I wish someone would have made me write on a chalk board a thousands times after school:
"ALL WHEEL DRIVE DOES NOT MEAN OFF ROAD!"
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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May 10, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
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Jeep Jeep. :-)
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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May 10, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
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After owning many manual transmissions and then going automatic I would never go back. Today's automatic 4WD on my 4 Runner is the shizzle. All original 342,000 now and running like new. Today I returned from a Eastern Sierra and Saline Valley trip once again.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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May 11, 2014 - 12:12am PT
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Did they solve the head gasket problem on the foresters?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 11, 2014 - 02:40am PT
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My last subie was a '72 (I think) and it sucked on uphills.
That was FORTY TWO YEARS AGO!
How about we identify the quality of people's climbing skills based upon 42 years ago?????
Sheesh!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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May 11, 2014 - 02:47am PT
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Ha Ha! Seems like yesterday.
edit: I remember hoisting the engine out using a tree in my brothers front yard. Rebuilt it and was driving it 9 hours later. Of course, there were a few left over fasteners...
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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May 11, 2014 - 06:43am PT
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Did they solve the head gasket problem on the foresters?
I've replaced mine twice, what do you think?
2003 Forester
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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May 11, 2014 - 11:31am PT
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Conversely, Ive had seven subarus over the years, never had a head gasket issue with a single one. Including the most common offender, the DOHC EJ25 engine from 1997-1999. Go figure, your results may vary. Only one failure that resulted in a tow, but thankfully not engine failure, from a timing belt idler pulley that a bolt cracked on and spit the timing belt. Luckily in the EJ18, it can sustain this without bent valves. Otherwise, nary a failing part.
And btw, yes, its a completely different engine these days.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 11, 2014 - 01:00pm PT
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My buddy is sure enjoying his new 305HP STI hatchback! Lots of room for skis
and books on how to fight yer tickets.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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May 11, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
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Nice. 2015? The new chassis and body but still has the tried and true EJ257 from previous years, no turboed 2.5l of the DI engine yet. Love the new WRX and STI, wish I could justify one.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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May 11, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
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Just cleaned the MAF sensor and the K&N filter, now with way less oil, along with replacing the upstream O2 sensor. Oh my god, I got all my power back even with 186k miles. Feels new and pulls strong like day 1. Waiting on the downstream 02 sensor now to complete. Didnt realize they wear down, not just break or stop working. huge difference, worth every penny and Im sure ill save gas as soon as i get bored with the recovered power.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 8, 2014 - 06:20pm PT
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too bad honda stopped making elements.
my mother was keen for me to buy an Element. "You can wash the interior with a garden hose," she said.
I investigated it with an open mind. But the lack of all-wheel-drive and laughable ground clearance made it nonviable.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I just got a really nice Ariens Wood splitter with a Subaru motor on it. I really dig this tool but seriously hope the motor holds up better than their auto motors. I know several mechanics who swear that Suburus have hands down the most blown motors of any cars they see. Kid i work with his mom just blew up her Subi.
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couchmaster
climber
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The deal breaker for me, on why the Outback was totally elimanated from my pool of potential cars, was that it didn't have a manual seat reclining feature. You had to press a button and it was a slow thing to get the seat back. As an over 50 dude, I finish a day skiing or climbing, I'll kick that seat right back and take a snooze. None of the outbacks have a manual lever. Deal breaker.
Bought a Forester. It's OK. 3 people going to Yos for a week fills it up to the max, less interior room than my old CRV, mileage isn't better, slightly quieter on the road.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Have had my 2015 forester for a few weeks. In general I'm happy with it, but have yet to use it off road/snow/camping; just city driving. Steering is tight, ride is smooth. 300 miles on the initial gas fill.
Stupid sterio system is complicated as hell and requires way too much eyes off the road. The whole technology package requires you to spend half your drive focusing on the dashboard controls. Not really safe. Then again, maybe it is a learning curve.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I have had a few different rental cars in the last few years and they had a video screen on the dash with the stereo controls in that thing. way easy to crash trying to figuer it out!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I was looking for a cheap winter/baba's very steep dirt driveway rig and bought a used 1999 Suzuki Grand Vitara. It's surprisingly nice! Get's 24 MPG on the highway with plenty of power in the 2.5 6 cyl engine. I like that it's got a low 4WD transfer case. Seats fold flat. The the biggest rig but I don't like feeling like loosing touch with the road like a boat.
For those who don't mind crap gas mileage and and that bigger feel, those Infinity Q4s can make a good used purchase as they are off the radar but basically are a luxury Pathfinder.
Peace
Karl
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 10, 2014 - 05:29am PT
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the controls notwithstanding, what is the sound quality of the 2015 Forester's audio, and how quiet/noisy is the cabin at highway speed?
I don't mind a cheap interior but I can't abide crappy audio. And the finicky controls don't bug me as I don't mash through the dials; usually just play CD or my local public radio jazz station
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lars johansen
Trad climber
West Marin, CA
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Jun 10, 2014 - 07:04am PT
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You might want to think about one of these while they are still available.
lars
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 11, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
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the controls notwithstanding, what is the sound quality of the 2015 Forester's audio, and how quiet/noisy is the cabin at highway speed?
I don't mind a cheap interior but I can't abide crappy audio. And the finicky controls don't bug me as I don't mash through the dials; usually just play CD or my local public radio jazz station
Mine is a forester limited with a harmon kardon sound system. Kicks ass!
edit: The ride is smooth and highway noise is minor. The cabin is pretty quiet.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 11, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
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How about we identify the quality of people's climbing skills based upon 42 years ago?????
Cool. I'll start. I climb better than I did 42 years ago....
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 10:45pm PT
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EPA Cargo volume 34.3cf
That equates to no more than 2 kids, 2 dogs, an ice chest and a day pack. Although the Legacy (Outback wagon) is a "poor man's Mercedes," if you need cargo space, it won't cut it. I upgraded to a Sienna with so much more room and nearly the same HWY MPG (29 vs 25).
The cargo -Cargo Volume to Seat 2 (cu. ft.): 87.1 is huge. Bring everything!
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 12, 2014 - 01:02am PT
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Dont spend 7900 bucks on an old toyota van. Just dont. The physics are off, they arent very stable, are horribly underpowered, and difficult to work on since the engine is under the drivers seat. Not very commodious in there either. I had to swap an engine in one in the early 90's....ridiculous. Everything to work on is pretty ridiculous in those. Only benefit is cheap parts. You could do a lot better than that for the price.
This thread is about considering a newer subaru, not the dream climbers van, theres eleventy billion other threads for that. A toyota space van isnt a dream climbers van anyhow. Its a make-do van.
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sheepdog
Trad climber
just over the hill
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Jun 12, 2014 - 03:50am PT
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point taken, carry on!
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 12, 2014 - 08:44am PT
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Ive seen many try the toyota van route, skip the previa too, go sienna or none, they didnt get it really right until then.
There are rumors of a subaru minivan coming to the states soon. Theres already a model in japan called the exiga, but isnt right for our market.
For subaru info, the best encyclopedia is cars101.com that guy has been chronicling them for years.
Also nasioc.com is good, lots of news and info there too.
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