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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 10, 2013 - 01:49am PT
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Hermann.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
I got lost on the Piz Badile, for golly sakes!
Wait till Marlow wakes up.
He'll go for it.
Loved your 'repeat' at the end of the climb, Sti!
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Dec 10, 2013 - 01:50am PT
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The Call Of K2 Lou
climber
Denial State U
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Dec 10, 2013 - 02:18am PT
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The "textbook" definition of alpinism seems to be mountain climbing in a self-sufficient style, as opposed to siege tactics.
I like to think of it the way Mark Twain feels about golf: "A good walk spoiled."
I love third and fourth class scrambling, sleeping out in the open, and hard liquor (currently "sipping" a little Ardbeg). I must be an alpinist, no?
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Dec 10, 2013 - 03:02am PT
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alpinism essences [essenci?]:
1. mountain summiting based objectives
2. self/ropemate-reliant
3. existence of objective and/or commitment based hazards
4. an element of technical difficulty
5. an element of endurance based difficulty
6. no yo-yoing for supplies
7. minimal to no use of bolted protection
get rid of any one of those seven and it ceases to be alpinism in my book.
without 2, 4 and/or 6 it becomes the dreaded "mountaineering".
otoh subtract 3 as well as possibly 1, 5 or 7 and it becomes the ever appealing "cragging".
ironic how a pursuit that on the surface seems so self-explanatory and "anarchic" ends up having a lot of unwritten rules.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
san jose and south lake tahoe, ca
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Dec 10, 2013 - 04:49am PT
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suffering is almost exclusively involved.....btw just bought an expedition north face tent....
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Dec 10, 2013 - 07:13am PT
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This will do:
Stolen from SuperTopo-Credit Alex Lowe--Charlie Fowler on the Diamond, just before his long
fall. A picture says a thousand words.
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Michael Fascinan
climber
Chamonix, france
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Dec 10, 2013 - 08:57am PT
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The great Russian alpinist Pavel Shabalin
"Alpinism was exceptional and sacred because it was closed to the masses.
And now it finds itself in the same historical situation as is love.
When love was poetry, it was exceptional and sacred. When mass media put love
in TV and magazines, it became pornography.”
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Dec 10, 2013 - 09:49am PT
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Jim Donini, John Bragg, and Jay Wilson on Torre Egger. . .
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 10, 2013 - 10:02am PT
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If the conquest of a great peak brings moments of exultation and bliss, which in the monotonous, materialistic existence of modern times nothing else can approach, it also presents great dangers. It is not the goal of "grand alpinisme" to face peril, but it is one of the tests one must undergo to deserve the joy of rising for an instant above the state of crawling grubs
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 10, 2013 - 10:08am PT
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Bruce Kay--he's really O. Reginald Kay, the noted humorist and part-time Temp at Wiki, where he's known as Okay because he's always right on. He is a true original, which is strange, considering his name and all. Notice his text lacks the standard appeal for additional verification. Must be a know-it-all like I.
And as to text, this here volume of the supertopo series on Topics that Smack of Climbing is one which seriously needs MORE PICTURES!
The Lives of the Alpinists is brought to you by Kitty Biscuits, the only sack of shtuff you need on the upward trail.
We now rejoin STorming Norming on the "trail"--as it was known back in the Golden Age of Sierra Exploration--in to the Sierra Nevada fastness for the umpteenth time. Not so big a deal, considering he lives right damn there! He is stumping along, thinking to himself (obviously--who else would he be thinking to?):
"Bo-doh-di-oh-doh, gonna give it a goh, poke me in my eye Moe, gotta bushwhack a little mo', so what...pork butt. I can wait till three, but I gotta pee...like, right now, right now, MF! Good thing no ladies are present. If I number those canyons as 'recesses,' will anyone get my pun on being a teacher? Why on earth do they not call them the European Himalayas if they can call THEM the Himalayan Alps??? Why are they called 'fastnesses' when time moves so slowly up here???"
Yes, it's no wonder he "wandered alone," this rebel lad, for though he was panther quick and weather wise, this rebel, only the truly weird and crazy (many of whom were from Berkeley--nothing strange about that, really) would go out climbing with him. Well, they just couldn't keep up, is what it was, for reals but hardly a little-known fact, of which there are few known of this giant who predated Kelty Packs, Himalayan Packs, and even Jim Donini! Like them, he's legend.
We are all climbing alone with the rebel...Fade to cat food commercial.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Dec 10, 2013 - 10:18am PT
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Alpinism's not a sport, it's a way of life, it's no hobby.
It's a way of looking at the mountain and saying
"Hey bud, let's party!"
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Dec 10, 2013 - 10:37am PT
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Wow...great thread, Jim!
To me...its climbing something of a technical nature in the alpine environment.
You wouldn't use crampons on Mont Aiguille...(well, maybe on a shady route in winter (having done the south face in off season, chilly, but doable in rock shoes). Ha ha...the "birthplace" of alpinism?
Cheers!
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thirsty
climber
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Dec 10, 2013 - 10:54am PT
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I think you have to break it down into routes that require general mountaineering skills and technical alpinism. Most technical alpinism requires good general mountaineering skills to get to and from the technical alpine sections fast enough to be safe. Some summits only require general mountaineering skills. WHen you are doing routes that require technical alpine skills like climbing mixed ice and rock in the dark, in serious cold and / or at altitude you do pay attention to and try to work towards greater difficulty. All general mountaineering and technical alpinism involves exposure to a greater range of objective hazards than ice or rock cragging, both of which can be multi-pitch and serious.
From my persepctive, technical alpine routes that require gereneral mountaineering skills like the abiity to move very fast on moderate angle ice and the ability to deal with glacier crossings for the approach to the hard climbing are where all the experience and skill sets come together. My best memories for sure.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Dec 10, 2013 - 11:01am PT
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alpinism is climbing with a piss bottle that also functions as a water bottle and is always at risk of freezing up
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Dec 10, 2013 - 11:05am PT
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the top of the climbing pyramid?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 10, 2013 - 11:13am PT
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Isn't this like the Pope asking people to define Catholicism for him?
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Dec 10, 2013 - 11:13am PT
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Alpinism is climbing in plastic boots.....that also serve as pee bottles.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Dec 10, 2013 - 11:18am PT
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"Alpinism was exceptional and sacred because it was closed to the masses.
And now it finds itself in the same historical situation as is love.
When love was poetry, it was exceptional and sacred. When mass media put love
in TV and magazines, it became pornography.”
WOW cool quote.
Alpinism to me is doing a committing climb of a peak (or a face/point) that involves a lot of different skills (ice climbing, rock climbing, aid climbing sometimes), in conditions that are not friendly and could change fast. For example, climbing a 6,000M+ peak by a route that has water ice 3-4, M5 climbing (5.9-5.10a in crampons and boots), and spending 2-3 days on that 7,000 ft face. With accent on routes that are rarely done, not crowded, and first ascents.
Like Burchy said, majority of what I did till now I would not define as true alpinism. More like getting the needed experience. It is hard to become an alpinist in 3.5 years of mountaineering/climbing. I think that's why majority of alpinists in their prime are in mid 30s to late 40s.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Flank of the Big Horns
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Dec 10, 2013 - 11:19am PT
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its climbing something of a technical nature in the alpine environment.
This reminds me of the Wolf in Pulp Fiction, “Just because you are a character, doesn’t mean you have character.”
From a general perspective I agree with Brian’s definition, but I think it sort of falls short when viewed from a climber’s perspective. As an example, running a lap on the Grand via the Exum ridge, while technically in the alpine, long approach, mountain weather, technical climbing etc. it doesn’t feel like alpinism. However, looking down the Black Ice Couloir, I imagine that would qualify.
So I would add the following to the definition: Alpinism is climbing something of a technical nature in the alpine environment requiring rock, ice, and snow skills to reach a summit.
Where is Tarbuster, to keep score and make sure the definition is bulletproof?
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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Dec 10, 2013 - 11:19am PT
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its not in the ism but the ist as in artist
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