Mammoth topography in regards to Visions (FindMattGreene)

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tylerhenry

Social climber
Hanford
Aug 29, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Mammoth_Mountain.jpg


I just came across this pic. It has some fencing with posts and wire.

This is exactly the type of fencing I was seeing in the vision. Maybe someone familiar with the area can clue us in on how prominent that type of fencing is? (If it's not common, maybe give us an idea of what trails it may be near?)

I also want to add that in the vision of Matt on the side of the mountain area, I didn't see a helmet in sight. I certainly saw what looked like a backpack (I was looking at him from the side, so it was rather hidden), but no helmet was apparent (unless it was in his bag -- but even though it was a relatively manageable area where he started off at, it still seems like he'd of worn a helmet to protect from falling rocks had he intended to climb much higher up).
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
I really appreciate everyone who in some way are all connected to Matt and had dreams, even psychics and what they are experienced, have come forward and shared the detail. Would like to know the students dream in detail too. Hopefully that can happen.

I appreciate no-one has ridiculed all this disclosure either, and has given respect. Thank you.

I will reveal just a little how important dreams are, and how they are at times from the divine.

I make no apologies about my faith, Messianic Judaism. I know HaShem is real and there is another world. People on ST for the most part know this about me and I certainly get ribbed for it. Big time. I have to wear a Teflon armored suit and asbestos underwear to survive here.

However, HaShem does communicate to us through dreams, whether you're a believer or not. Read the whole story of Joseph in the Bible. Many who had dreams would come to Joseph and he would tell them what they meant. He had this gift directly from G-d, and it saved Egypt and Israel from famine. He saved many lives. HaShem gave him dreams and he had the gift of dream interpretation.

Joseph the Dreamer:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+37&version=NCV

Dreams can be from G-d. The fact that many different people are experiencing similar things in their dreams concerning Matt is very important, and one would have to admit its beyond our ability to understand unless you accept that there is more beyond this physical life.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-dream-interpretation.html


A personal experience in my life to show you the power of dreams:

I have had dreams my life long (like everyone) but one in particular has changed my life and woke me up with absolute vivid memory of it. I had a very detailed dream that went on for a long-time. In the dream my wife was driving our Syncro Vanagon, and I was asleep in the passenger seat but fully aware of what was happening around me. Like I had a third person movie view of everything. We were headed down a slight grade on a coastal highway like Hwy 1 in California. We were going South. There was a strong guard rail on the right along the vertical cliffs that were 1000s of feet high, and then a wide coastal plain to the ocean. The highway was turning to the left up ahead. Comatose and with no emotion my wife drove right through the guard-rail rather than turn left to follow the road and we were instantly in free-fall projectile motion 1000s of feet above the coastal plain heading toward the ocean. I immediately awoke and was pissed, sad, and crying all at the same time. I asked her what has she done? She was still comatose looking straight ahead but with tears starting to run down her cheek. To make a long story short, the free-fall continued for a long time. Lots of detail. Eventually we came to a bumpy yet soft landing on the beach. The vehicle started to roll along into the shallow surf and then stopped. I quickly got out, ran around and got my wife and carried her in my arms to the dry beach and set her down. She was crying. I looked back and the vehicle was starting to sink into the beach mud nose first. I ran back got a rope from the vehicle tied it onto the back bumper and pulled the vehicle down and dragged it back up to the dry beach safe. I went back and sat a short distance from my wife and started to cry, and thanked G-d that we were Ok, and that we didn't die. And then someone on the beach who saw us said that was the longest free-fall they had ever witnessed. I answered back, I don't want to ever experience that again.

I told my wife and my kids my dream in fine detail the very next morning. They all listened intently. I told them wow, not sure what that means, but it was vivid.

One week later my wife left me. I had no clue that was going to happen. Things seemed to be going well. The moment she left me and the shock set-in the dream came rushing back and I knew exactly what it meant. HaShem warned me but I was asleep. I couldn't understand what it meant when he told me at the very moment. I wasn't meant to. The dream at that moment was meant for my wife, not me. It was so vivid I couldn't help myself, I had to tell her and my children. She had been secretly preparing to leave me for a month before she left. HaShem was telling her that he knew what she was going to do before she did it. And he also let me warn the children, yet they didn't know what it meant either. Well, now I know what every little detail in that dream means today. I've gone through it time and time again, and with a Christian marriage counselor. We know what it means. And in the end I let her go. That is gonna happen soon through divorce court, over 2 years later.


Back to dreams regarding Matt ...

The dreams regarding Matthew and the Blue crystal, blue diamond, trees, Matt trying to give the long blue crystal to Ron, arrowheads, wooden fences, looking through someone else's eyes through a very clear window etc. etc. all tell a very accurate story that HaShem through Matt is trying to get you to pay attention to. The fact that the blue crystal is long is probably him telling you that there is something about the blue crystal that is important. He's trying to emphasize that point, that blue crystal, that blue diamond. And he's having a hard time giving it too you perhaps because you don't want to accept what it might mean.

The fact that all of you including the psychic came forward and shared a little about your dreams and experiences before the pictures of the glasses were ever revealed is very, very important. Similar to how I revealed my dream to my wife before she left me.

Think on that. The answer is before you.


Edit:

RM217 your dream with 9 window pains then down to one. Perhaps means many ideas but then only one is true.

I have mentioned this in another thread, July 16th, 2013, was the last night of the 9th of Av, 2013. In Judaism, the 9th of Av, is like Friday the 13th. Not good. Too much bad history has occurred on this date. It's as though extreme evil is released on this date, or always takes advantage on this date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tisha_B'Av

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/946703/jewish/What-happened-on-the-Ninth-of-Av.htm

tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
From a blog post about Crystal Crag, as it mentions the reason why it was named so (even though it's been mentioned it's not the likely climbing choice):

"Crystal Crag is a little fin above Lake Mary, near Mammoth Lakes, named for a vein of quartz crystals near the top of its north end"
"I was close enough to reach the crystal pitch, though, which was short, but as cool-looking as promised. I stopped to take a few pictures of the huge quartz blocks, but it was hard to get a good shot in the shade."
"From the top of the crystals, a long, exposed 4th class traverse led to the summit."

http://drdirtbag.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/crystal-crag-north-arete-ii-5-6/



RM217

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
Second, the crystal. Matt was trying to give Ron a big crystal. You point out that a crystal or a diamond is a treasure -- not necessarily monetary. What was Matt's biggest treasure? His life. Simple, clear, and complete, like a crystal. Maybe he wants to give that to his friends and family.

LAhiker - Yes, this is EXACTLY what I was thinking. The diamond/crystal was what Matt saw as a treasure. Not us. And it makes perfect sense. His life is his biggest treasure. Yes. Agree with this 100%.

First, the glass window. In Buddhism, the clearest glass is awareness, the unchanging frame around everything we experience. Supposedly to experience the awareness -- to feel more the awareness rather than its changing contents -- can bring peace and joy. Perhaps in a moment of extremity, one feels this pure awareness.

This makes sense also. The awareness kind of walks hand in hand with clarity.

But the glass is also an obstacle, as what's behind the glass is unreachable, miles and time separating the dreamer from what they see.

Tioga - Absolutely true. This is what I felt. I wanted to reach out and touch the tree, but the window was the barrier. And in my dream, there was no way to open the window.


The dream book I mentioned says that "seeing a tree through the window" in a dream means: "seeing the world through the eyes of another person"--I haven't noticed this part right away, only when I moved onto "window" meaning.

Very interesting! So, am I seeing things through what I believe to be Matt's eyes? Then what I see as the obstruction, maybe it was Matt's obstruction. I understand the meaning of the tree in a dream and even agree with it, because I thought that initially - but I still can't count out the obstruction - (or maybe it is the glass as an obstruction?) I definetely feel the obstruction is important. Mostly because I didn't seek that answer...it wasn't until I let it go that it came to me.


And - LAhiker - I too hope this leads to the finding of Matt. I am by no means a psychic. I don't even read my horoscope... but I have had some strange dreams in the past that have come to pass. In those dreams, something specific took place and then later happened. There was nothing to try to decifer, like in this one.
RM217

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
I'm the medium who's original testimonial is found in the OP.

Hi Tyler...nice to see you jump in and give your thoughts. What is the OP?
tylerhenry

Social climber
Hanford
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
Hi Tyler...nice to see you jump in and give your thoughts. What is the OP?


Hi there! The OP = Original Post. The testimonial at the beginning of this thread was sent by me in an email. I mentioned in one of my first posts with this account that I agreed with your interpretation about the Blue Diamond (even though I was the one who felt it was a play on words) -- as I think it very well may have many meanings, and I really appreciate your contribution to the thread -- we have some great ideas flowing and hopefully we can get some answers. Hope you're having a great day. :)

T

From a blog post about Crystal Crag, as it mentions the reason why it was named so (even though it's been mentioned it's not the likely climbing choice):

"Crystal Crag is a little fin above Lake Mary, near Mammoth Lakes, named for a vein of quartz crystals near the top of its north end"
"I was close enough to reach the crystal pitch, though, which was short, but as cool-looking as promised. I stopped to take a few pictures of the huge quartz blocks, but it was hard to get a good shot in the shade."
"From the top of the crystals, a long, exposed 4th class traverse led to the summit."

I really like this tioga. It wouldn't surprise me if the blue diamond/crystal reference might be describing a location.
RM217

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
The fact that all of you including the psychic came forward and shared a little about your dreams and experiences before the pictures of the glasses were ever revealed is very, very important. Similar to how I revealed my dream to my wife before she left me.

First, I am so sorry about your wife leaving you...And I hope you have found peace in it all. I believe when one door closes, another opens, but you have to have the courage to walk through.


I agree... the fact that the dreams/visions came out PRIOR to the glasses being found was very important. Credibility would have been out the window (no pun intended). I can't help but think that people have to think this is borderline insanity. I am definitely out of my comfort zone here. But, I feel it was important. In my entire life I have rarely shared my dreams with anyone...and especially not the "strange" ones. And I even shared this one with my son. It was too overwhelming to hold on to alone. I thought he would finally call the rubber wagon for me, but he didn't. He even told me several times to email the family, but I just couldn't bring myself to. I didn't know how it would be taken. My son told me that I would regret it if it was found out that something in the dream may have mattered. He didn't have to tell me that - I did already know that. Well, when the family consulted a psychic, I thought that was my cue... and I sent a PM to Tiffany. And that is when I learned about Ron's dream. "Wow" was all I could say. This was just a few hours before the glasses were found. And right around the time my son got home that night, the glasses were found. And when he got home he said "you are not going to believe this..." and proceeded to tell me the story of the 3rd blue crystal dream. My son did not initiate this conversation. He didn't say "my mom had this dream..." It was the other boy (who my son hardly knew) that came up and started talking about "Mr. Greene." And then that boy revealed the dream. I feel that we all stayed quiet about it for long enough and it was meant to come out - despite what the nay sayers said. I suppose I would rather be mocked and made fun of and be found "wrong" then to hold in something of potential importance and find out I was "right."

I prefer to view "coincidence" (especially of this magnitude) as Divine Intervention...

I have to believe that this will lead somewhere...
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 29, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
The thread had been started by Matt's sister, I believe.

RM, yes, I agree on what you and LAHiker said about "spiritual" meaning of the crystal--something of highest (and non-material, "pure") value he tried to pass to his family/friends. Even if you look at Matt's photo that is on most search info sites, his eyes look blue and very clear, pure like a "crystal" sort of (where I'm from, they say: "eyes is a mirror reflecting the soul")... At the same time, it can have double meaning and be a symbol of location where he potentially had an accident or something he seen at the time of accident. It really strikes as odd the large size and different shapes of a crystal in these dreams people had seen, this just "catches". As to "seeing the world through person's eyes"...I guess yes, even though it may mean not literally "seeing", but "experiencing" as well. The obstacle (obstruction) you mentioned--yes, I think a tree and glass both can be it, as in a dream meanings are fluid...but if you simply felt there was one, this is enough. One thing can have more than one meaning in dream (just like in real life). Like yourself, I had experienced some dreams of this kind in the past, that came true, so I know what this experience is like--there's always more than meets the eye.
RM217

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
Hi there! The OP = Original Post. The testimonial at the beginning of this thread was sent by me in an email. I mentioned in one of my first posts with this account that I agreed with your interpretation about the Blue Diamond (even though I was the one who felt it was a play on words) -- as I think it very well may have many meanings, and I really appreciate your contribution to the thread -- we have some great ideas flowing and hopefully we can get some answers. Hope you're having a great day. :)

Tyler - thanks for clarifying OP. I knew that when you would answer, I would probably say "DUH" and I did. (LOL).

And...somehow I missed your first post and just went back to find/read it. I wasn't feeling the play on words. Ironically, I do like to challenge myself with mind-game type games/puzzles, something like a play of words, but just feel like it didn't apply to what I was feeling about my particular dream. It seemed broad and confusing. But, like I said, I don't want to discount anything or anybody. It's a big puzzle and maybe if we can get all the pieces put together, we will see that big picture.

The common denominator here seems to me to be the blue. I also read that somewhere else, something about a blue sheet, almost child-like. So, I feel like the blue is important. Also important is the crystal/diamond, which translate (to me) to be a treasure of some sort, something to be cherished. So, not so sure if the shape or whether it is crystal or diamond is important. My "diamond" was small (like it could have been held in the palm of a hand. Ron's was much larger - a couple of feet long. And although I don't know the size, the other boy said it was a large rock/boulder (behind Matt), so it would have had to have been substantially larger for it to be viewable if it was behind him.

And - one more thing on the play of words...like I said I don't feel like it plays a role with the "diamonds" but that doesn't mean it is not important. A message is trying to be conveyed. Words are important when trying to relay a message, but in this case, there can be no words, so in a sense we do have to figure out what it is that is trying to be said. So, the words are important.


tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 29, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
And to those who call this thread 'distasteful'--have you, personally, been subject of search, rescue, while severely injured, with injuries incompatible with life, etc? I've been, and I don't find this thread distasteful. Be careful with accusations. You may find out one day you don't control a yota of your daily life, with whatever "rational" choices, but something else, above us, does.

Or, they perhaps can pick up a John Muir's book...self-proclaimed skeptic of anything "supernatural", Muir had a vision, while on Half-Dome, which came true--he details this in his writings...mountains seems to be conductive of some things, as even Muir came to see.
tylerhenry

Social climber
Hanford
Aug 29, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
"Tyler - thanks for clarifying OP. I knew that when you would answer, I would probably say "DUH" and I did. (LOL).

Totally understandable, it's a lot to skim through!

And...somehow I missed your first post and just went back to find/read it. I wasn't feeling the play on words. Ironically, I do like to challenge myself with mind-game type games/puzzles, something like a play of words, but just feel like it didn't apply to what I was feeling about my particular dream. It seemed broad and confusing. But, like I said, I don't want to discount anything or anybody. It's a big puzzle and maybe if we can get all the pieces put together, we will see that big picture.


Certainly, different symbols have different meanings to different people, and hopefully we can get a step closer to figuring this out.

The common denominator here seems to me to be the blue.

I agree completely. A few minutes ago, an intuitive friend of mine messaged me and said she kept seeing a "blue tarp". Blue seems to be a common symbol. Now whether or not it's important -- I don't know, however its prevalence is certainly notable.


And - one more thing on the play of words...like I said I don't feel like it plays a role with the "diamonds" but that doesn't mean it is not important. A message is trying to be conveyed. Words are important when trying to relay a message, but in this case, there can be no words, so in a sense we do have to figure out what it is that is trying to be said. So, the words are important.


I totally agree! It seems like most people are either seeing a blue diamond, a blue crystal, or a blue, diamond-shaped crystal. My original interest in the blue diamond aspect (in particular) came from this post on the FB page:

Credit: tylerhenry

Hoping people (myself included) begin seeing more information that can hopefully bring light to the situation. We have some decent leads -- just a matter of executing them and getting people to look (resources are limited).

RM217

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
At the same time, it can have double meaning and be a symbol of location where he potentially had an accident or something he seen at the time of accident.

I do agree with this. It can absolutely be a location. I think the blue is important and somehow goes together with the 'treasure.' Because a "blue treasure" wouldn't make sense. And the fact that they are all represented in different sizes and shapes somewhat differentiates them with each other, yet they remain the one constant. If he treasured his life, or love for his family, or both, one way or another, I believe that he would want them to know what happened. And in order to know the what they would have to know the where.

I just googled this about dreaming of the color blue: Dreaming of Blue


Blue tends to mean truth, heaven, tranquility, peace, intuition and what the dreamer associates with sky or ocean- blue could even signify the desire for a vacation! Blue tends to be a very spiritual color for most dreamers. The color can represent the collective conscious (see information on Carl Jung) or our subconscious. Blue is often associated with boys and could represent masculinity for the dreamer.

Different shades of blue can have very different meanings. Navy blue often means conformity and a lack of individualism since this color is typically associated with uniforms. Dark or washed out blue tends to indicate depression and feelings of sadness.

Blue may also be associated with the fifth, throat chakra. This chakra is associated with communication, self-expression, thinking and planning.


It seems to make sense, but I don't see the direction or where this could lead us?
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 29, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
The guesses with blue I've seen so far had been: "Blue Colour", "Blue diamond (skiing) trails", blue "Crystal Lake", blue square trails, and blue (black diamond brand) helmet, which he didn't have with him--there probably been more.

By the way, as to "spiritual" meaning of that crystal in the dreams--some Native American tribes believed that a person has 4 souls and one, eventually, resides in quartz crystals.
tylerhenry

Social climber
Hanford
Aug 29, 2013 - 09:03pm PT
From experience, common symbols that a soul sends to his or here living family generally holds significance to the person themselves. As in, every message Matt would be sending would be sent with the intention of saying something, or expressing a point.

In saying that, we have some great ideas as to what these dreams about the blue crystal/diamond/etc. could mean. Ultimately, those closest to Matt might be the closest to figuring out what it could mean. If he had read up on and knew about Native American religious beliefs, then it'd be understandable that he'd send that message. If he saw the movie, "The Gift" for example, that could be a reference to what he's referring to (just an example). My point is that usually, symbols (and especially ones so widely "sent out") almost always have personal meaning to either the person sending them, or the people the person is sending the symbol to.

I love some of the examples shared in this thread -- some wonderful perspectives. With that said, I'd infer that if there is any meaning behind the diamond/crystal reference, it'd be a reference to a place. Why? Because Matt had experience with the area and is probably more familiar with the names of local hiking spots as opposed to religious symbology or dream interpretation.

That said, who knows! I don't want to discount anyone whatsoever. As I have said earlier, dreams and symbols can have tons of different meanings -- all that can be relevant. It's less about who is right or wrong, and more about how we can use the information to search for Matt. That's the ultimate goal. Love the suggestions.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 29, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
People in this thread had been saying about the precious thing that was being passed as a crystal--life (soul, spirit?)--this reminded me of the Native American belief (quartz crystal = house of soul). But I too think that while it can have this meaning as an additional interpretation, it seems--from its very striking, peculiar nature, shown to 3 unrelated people--to have specific and concrete meaning about location... I mean, if a person wanted to communicate something the most important to closest people searching for them, they'd want to communicate their location, probably.
Btw, Matt had a bunch of arrowheads...perhaps was he was interested in Native American philosophies and beliefs.
RM217

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
It seems fair to say that I think we all can agree that the diamond/crystal is something that can be considered a treasure. And depending on who is interpreting it, the object - the treasure, something to be cherished, - will vary with each individual interpretation. So, while we are thinking that Matt's life or his family was the most treasured, we could very well be "over-shooting" the moment. Seems from Matt's blog post and other things he has said to people, and from his posts in the climbing log on summitpost.org, these climbs are what he held as a treasure or something to be remembered/cherished, at least in that moment. So, with that said...yes, I agree that the crystal could be a place, coupled with the blue, which is an added clue, and also perhaps with a double meaning of the "truth" (from dream interpretation). Finding this place will lead us to the truth of what happened.

So, taking this information and info we know from the other forum, (equipment taken, not taken - helmet, which he did not take seems very significant, where he had already been, the "worn-out" bus schedule which was left behind, also seems significant, the fact that he was ready to leave ML as soon as his car was ready, etc) what would be the most likely place. To me, it is possible that he hitched a ride. He had done that in the past in other places, not in ML that we know of. But, if the bus was working out for him in ML in the days before, why change that? No helmet, no epic climb, per Tiffany. Very limited gear. Boots, crampons, ice pick. My feeling is he left on foot from the campground. I don't know ML at all...so what is most likely? Would Blue Coulour, Crystal Lake be easy access on foot? And would that tie in with other clues (fence, ravine, etc)?
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 29, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
RM, I thought he was assumed to leave very early, while it was still completely dark? As his last cell ping was in the middle of the night when he presumably got up for an early start...Not a good ride hitching time, no cars and one can't see who's in upcoming vehicle...So, most likely on foot. And he probably wouldn't go back to Crystal Crag, as he already visited it on June 29, supposedly. Yes, he could have walked to Crystal Lake, it's below Crystal Crag, but it wouldn't be his final planned destination.
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 29, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
I knew a ranger in Yosemite that had a story published in Guideposts magazine about a search for a lost hiker in Yosemite in the mid to late 80s. The gist of it was that the ranger (a devout christian) was assigned to work on this NPS search, and he prayed or whatever, and got a vision from God where to look etc, and the hiker was then found alive somewhere in the Illilouette
creek drainage.
RM217

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
Tioga - yes, it was assumed/speculated an early start (3am) was a possibilty, however, I do remember that Tiffany said way early on in that forum that it did not seem consistent with other times he got up and turned on his phone (or something to that effect). Very possible he did, knowing it would be his last day. But, there was also reference made to him being annoyed by noisy campers who got up early. The fact remains that him getting an early start is purely speculation. He may have, he may not have, but either way, I do believe the evidence points to him going on foot (especially if it was that early).
RM217

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
I knew a ranger in Yosemite that had a story published in Guideposts magazine about a search for a lost hiker in Yosemite in the mid to late 80s. The gist of it was that the ranger (a devout christian) was assigned to work on this NPS search, and he prayed or whatever, and got a vision from God where to look etc, and the hiker was then found alive somewhere in the Illilouette
creek drainage.


A story of hope... :)
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