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RM217
climber
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Aug 29, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
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Hi there! The OP = Original Post. The testimonial at the beginning of this thread was sent by me in an email. I mentioned in one of my first posts with this account that I agreed with your interpretation about the Blue Diamond (even though I was the one who felt it was a play on words) -- as I think it very well may have many meanings, and I really appreciate your contribution to the thread -- we have some great ideas flowing and hopefully we can get some answers. Hope you're having a great day. :)
Tyler - thanks for clarifying OP. I knew that when you would answer, I would probably say "DUH" and I did. (LOL).
And...somehow I missed your first post and just went back to find/read it. I wasn't feeling the play on words. Ironically, I do like to challenge myself with mind-game type games/puzzles, something like a play of words, but just feel like it didn't apply to what I was feeling about my particular dream. It seemed broad and confusing. But, like I said, I don't want to discount anything or anybody. It's a big puzzle and maybe if we can get all the pieces put together, we will see that big picture.
The common denominator here seems to me to be the blue. I also read that somewhere else, something about a blue sheet, almost child-like. So, I feel like the blue is important. Also important is the crystal/diamond, which translate (to me) to be a treasure of some sort, something to be cherished. So, not so sure if the shape or whether it is crystal or diamond is important. My "diamond" was small (like it could have been held in the palm of a hand. Ron's was much larger - a couple of feet long. And although I don't know the size, the other boy said it was a large rock/boulder (behind Matt), so it would have had to have been substantially larger for it to be viewable if it was behind him.
And - one more thing on the play of words...like I said I don't feel like it plays a role with the "diamonds" but that doesn't mean it is not important. A message is trying to be conveyed. Words are important when trying to relay a message, but in this case, there can be no words, so in a sense we do have to figure out what it is that is trying to be said. So, the words are important.
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tylerhenry
Social climber
Hanford
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Aug 29, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
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"Tyler - thanks for clarifying OP. I knew that when you would answer, I would probably say "DUH" and I did. (LOL).
Totally understandable, it's a lot to skim through!
And...somehow I missed your first post and just went back to find/read it. I wasn't feeling the play on words. Ironically, I do like to challenge myself with mind-game type games/puzzles, something like a play of words, but just feel like it didn't apply to what I was feeling about my particular dream. It seemed broad and confusing. But, like I said, I don't want to discount anything or anybody. It's a big puzzle and maybe if we can get all the pieces put together, we will see that big picture.
Certainly, different symbols have different meanings to different people, and hopefully we can get a step closer to figuring this out.
The common denominator here seems to me to be the blue.
I agree completely. A few minutes ago, an intuitive friend of mine messaged me and said she kept seeing a "blue tarp". Blue seems to be a common symbol. Now whether or not it's important -- I don't know, however its prevalence is certainly notable.
And - one more thing on the play of words...like I said I don't feel like it plays a role with the "diamonds" but that doesn't mean it is not important. A message is trying to be conveyed. Words are important when trying to relay a message, but in this case, there can be no words, so in a sense we do have to figure out what it is that is trying to be said. So, the words are important.
I totally agree! It seems like most people are either seeing a blue diamond, a blue crystal, or a blue, diamond-shaped crystal. My original interest in the blue diamond aspect (in particular) came from this post on the FB page:
Hoping people (myself included) begin seeing more information that can hopefully bring light to the situation. We have some decent leads -- just a matter of executing them and getting people to look (resources are limited).
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RM217
climber
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Aug 29, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
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At the same time, it can have double meaning and be a symbol of location where he potentially had an accident or something he seen at the time of accident.
I do agree with this. It can absolutely be a location. I think the blue is important and somehow goes together with the 'treasure.' Because a "blue treasure" wouldn't make sense. And the fact that they are all represented in different sizes and shapes somewhat differentiates them with each other, yet they remain the one constant. If he treasured his life, or love for his family, or both, one way or another, I believe that he would want them to know what happened. And in order to know the what they would have to know the where.
I just googled this about dreaming of the color blue: Dreaming of Blue
Blue tends to mean truth, heaven, tranquility, peace, intuition and what the dreamer associates with sky or ocean- blue could even signify the desire for a vacation! Blue tends to be a very spiritual color for most dreamers. The color can represent the collective conscious (see information on Carl Jung) or our subconscious. Blue is often associated with boys and could represent masculinity for the dreamer.
Different shades of blue can have very different meanings. Navy blue often means conformity and a lack of individualism since this color is typically associated with uniforms. Dark or washed out blue tends to indicate depression and feelings of sadness.
Blue may also be associated with the fifth, throat chakra. This chakra is associated with communication, self-expression, thinking and planning.
It seems to make sense, but I don't see the direction or where this could lead us?
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tylerhenry
Social climber
Hanford
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Aug 30, 2013 - 12:03am PT
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From experience, common symbols that a soul sends to his or here living family generally holds significance to the person themselves. As in, every message Matt would be sending would be sent with the intention of saying something, or expressing a point.
In saying that, we have some great ideas as to what these dreams about the blue crystal/diamond/etc. could mean. Ultimately, those closest to Matt might be the closest to figuring out what it could mean. If he had read up on and knew about Native American religious beliefs, then it'd be understandable that he'd send that message. If he saw the movie, "The Gift" for example, that could be a reference to what he's referring to (just an example). My point is that usually, symbols (and especially ones so widely "sent out") almost always have personal meaning to either the person sending them, or the people the person is sending the symbol to.
I love some of the examples shared in this thread -- some wonderful perspectives. With that said, I'd infer that if there is any meaning behind the diamond/crystal reference, it'd be a reference to a place. Why? Because Matt had experience with the area and is probably more familiar with the names of local hiking spots as opposed to religious symbology or dream interpretation.
That said, who knows! I don't want to discount anyone whatsoever. As I have said earlier, dreams and symbols can have tons of different meanings -- all that can be relevant. It's less about who is right or wrong, and more about how we can use the information to search for Matt. That's the ultimate goal. Love the suggestions.
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RM217
climber
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Aug 30, 2013 - 12:44am PT
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It seems fair to say that I think we all can agree that the diamond/crystal is something that can be considered a treasure. And depending on who is interpreting it, the object - the treasure, something to be cherished, - will vary with each individual interpretation. So, while we are thinking that Matt's life or his family was the most treasured, we could very well be "over-shooting" the moment. Seems from Matt's blog post and other things he has said to people, and from his posts in the climbing log on summitpost.org, these climbs are what he held as a treasure or something to be remembered/cherished, at least in that moment. So, with that said...yes, I agree that the crystal could be a place, coupled with the blue, which is an added clue, and also perhaps with a double meaning of the "truth" (from dream interpretation). Finding this place will lead us to the truth of what happened.
So, taking this information and info we know from the other forum, (equipment taken, not taken - helmet, which he did not take seems very significant, where he had already been, the "worn-out" bus schedule which was left behind, also seems significant, the fact that he was ready to leave ML as soon as his car was ready, etc) what would be the most likely place. To me, it is possible that he hitched a ride. He had done that in the past in other places, not in ML that we know of. But, if the bus was working out for him in ML in the days before, why change that? No helmet, no epic climb, per Tiffany. Very limited gear. Boots, crampons, ice pick. My feeling is he left on foot from the campground. I don't know ML at all...so what is most likely? Would Blue Coulour, Crystal Lake be easy access on foot? And would that tie in with other clues (fence, ravine, etc)?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:03am PT
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I knew a ranger in Yosemite that had a story published in Guideposts magazine about a search for a lost hiker in Yosemite in the mid to late 80s. The gist of it was that the ranger (a devout christian) was assigned to work on this NPS search, and he prayed or whatever, and got a vision from God where to look etc, and the hiker was then found alive somewhere in the Illilouette
creek drainage.
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RM217
climber
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:17am PT
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Tioga - yes, it was assumed/speculated an early start (3am) was a possibilty, however, I do remember that Tiffany said way early on in that forum that it did not seem consistent with other times he got up and turned on his phone (or something to that effect). Very possible he did, knowing it would be his last day. But, there was also reference made to him being annoyed by noisy campers who got up early. The fact remains that him getting an early start is purely speculation. He may have, he may not have, but either way, I do believe the evidence points to him going on foot (especially if it was that early).
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RM217
climber
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:19am PT
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I knew a ranger in Yosemite that had a story published in Guideposts magazine about a search for a lost hiker in Yosemite in the mid to late 80s. The gist of it was that the ranger (a devout christian) was assigned to work on this NPS search, and he prayed or whatever, and got a vision from God where to look etc, and the hiker was then found alive somewhere in the Illilouette
creek drainage.
A story of hope... :)
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Aug 30, 2013 - 02:09am PT
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Blue Coulier? If you look at the Blue Crag photos I posted up-thread, you see an obvious chute/ coulior on the right side in both photos. I'm guessing that's it (confirm with eastside underground).
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RM217
climber
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Aug 30, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
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And here's from trip report to Lake Ediza, that's on the map of possible destinations:
"the rocks were covered with many interesting minerals - crystals of clear quartz, brownish colored citrine, and green and blue malachite and azurite."
Interesting! Seems to name the colors in the dreams. (clear/brown/green/blue). Hmmmmm....
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 30, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
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I personally wouldn't be looking high, I'd be looking lower. The bottom and mid-section of smaller mountains as opposed to high peaks. He simply made it clear that he would have had a partner if he intended to do a trail or peak of higher difficulty.
I contacted a well known Medium last night and this was his response. This makes me also think looking lower will be fruitful. In my opinion as I've watched this man in action he is the real deal.
"Mathew was mauled by a large animal who dragged his body off of a pathway and into a ravine-esq area. It has been picked over by other predators. As to where I can't pinpoint it but he actually appears to have bled to death. Fortunately he appears to have gone into immediate shock after the attack followed by unconsciousness."
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Aug 30, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
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For those of you who know the area, is there a Snake River near possible sites that Matt climbed?
Also, can anyone search abandoned mines in the areas they are in? I gather there are many. In particular any tourmaline mines?
I understand there is a biking event this wkend at Mammoth Lakes -- can signs be posted to bikers asking for help with the search for Matt?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Not a vision, but I happened to be in Vons (Mammoth) and I thought about, and imagined him walking thru the isles dressed as in the OP - with helmet etc.
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Are you seeing photos of Matt places you go? At Vons?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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No. A flyer was up in the post office for a while, but everything gets taken down (by them) once a week or something. I've been to the library in recent days - Starbucks etc, and see nothing.
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Can you copy some, download from Find Matthew Greene Facebook page? It is easily accessible.........I guess replacing posters is just part of the whole process of searching for him.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Pacarockhound and Biotch,
I think SplitPants and her husband have been putting up more flyers in and around Mammoth Lakes this weekend. It sounds like a real challenge keeping them up -- I'm sure any help with that is most welcome...
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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A direct link to a (PDF) flyer would help. I'll print/ post flyers in town, but am skiddish about going on FB very much.
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Biotch, the flyer is below, but Supertopo would only upload a .jpg version. Maybe there's a way to get a higher-resolution version.
Also, here's a link to another version, which lacks the Spanish:
http://socalcrisis.org/findmattgreene
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Rock Mandala Meditation/Creation on Sept 14, around 7PM in Heritage Park as part of Art & Science Exhibit at Escondido (CA)Art Partnership Gallery. All are welcome-please bring your favorite rocks or stones, feathers, flowers, leaves or other images from nature for a visual/spatial exploration as well as a meditation for sending light and healing energy to loved ones, and lost ones. I will be bringing rocks from Lehigh Valley where Matt and I are both from, as well as Escondido, Murrieta and Hemet CA rocks.
My love to Matt and his family, friends, community on his birthday.
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