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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:36am PT
Interesting article HCFS.. Thanks .. And i pretty much agree with Putin...
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Sep 12, 2013 - 09:26am PT
After diplomatically spanking Obama and Kerry by allowing their misuse of words to trap them in to something other than what they wished, the leader of Russia weighs in on this conflict.

"By VLADIMIR V. PUTIN
Published: September 11, 2013



MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.

Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.

The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.

No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.

The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.

Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.

Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.

From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.

It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States. Is it in America’s long-term interest? I doubt it. Millions around the world increasingly see America not as a model of democracy but as relying solely on brute force, cobbling coalitions together under the slogan “you’re either with us or against us.”

But force has proved ineffective and pointless. Afghanistan is reeling, and no one can say what will happen after international forces withdraw. Libya is divided into tribes and clans. In Iraq the civil war continues, with dozens killed each day. In the United States, many draw an analogy between Iraq and Syria, and ask why their government would want to repeat recent mistakes.

No matter how targeted the strikes or how sophisticated the weapons, civilian casualties are inevitable, including the elderly and children, whom the strikes are meant to protect.

The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded.

We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement.

A new opportunity to avoid military action has emerged in the past few days. The United States, Russia and all members of the international community must take advantage of the Syrian government’s willingness to place its chemical arsenal under international control for subsequent destruction. Judging by the statements of President Obama, the United States sees this as an alternative to military action.

I welcome the president’s interest in continuing the dialogue with Russia on Syria. We must work together to keep this hope alive, as we agreed to at the Group of 8 meeting in Lough Erne in Northern Ireland in June, and steer the discussion back toward negotiations.

If we can avoid force against Syria, this will improve the atmosphere in international affairs and strengthen mutual trust. It will be our shared success and open the door to cooperation on other critical issues.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

Vladimir V. Putin is the president of Russia."

Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Sep 12, 2013 - 09:53am PT
Putin warns the UN could suffer the same fate as its precursor, the League of Nations, if "influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization".

The UN could suffer the same fate as the League of Nations!?!?

That prediction came about sixty years too late...
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Sep 12, 2013 - 10:39am PT
Putin is a master politician. This article is really interesting for quite a few reasons.

Just one of which is he makes a great point about the importance of the UN and the risks of it becoming impotent and how that could destabilize the world.

Interesting that he carefully avoids the counterpoint such that those nations with veto power can cause the same problem when they shield other nations from proper repercussions. I'm not arguing for a strike on Syria. But Russia China and even the US have a habit of shielding their buddies egregious actions by Veto, (Israel anyone?)

Both issues have the ability of making the UN a laughingstock.

Anyway this is a very unusual move and it seems the issue is pretty darn more serious than even I thought if Putin feels the need to talk directly to us.
Forrest B.

Trad climber
Appalacia
Sep 12, 2013 - 11:08am PT
It is serious. As stated before by others this is not about WMD's. It's about gas, and power. Putin kicked the Rothschilds and their chronies to the curb, paid off all IMF debt, and took control of his country and it's finances back from the Banking and coorporate oligarchs, as well as banning all GMO products. The powers that be do not like this, and are basically waging war on Russia. Syria is about natural gas. Taking Russia's profit center away. Russia is not our enemy. He is fighting our enemy, and is a voice in the world for progress against the oppresive tryrants in the banking world. Hungary followed suit, and Iceland is on a rampage arresting all sorts of Rothschilds chronies, and brining them to justice.

Everything we do is in the interest of the Zionist, and the financial kabals, and the price of ebt to the american people. Debt is our Tyrant. Russia, Hungary, and Iceland have all dealt or are dealing with their Tyrants. We should too.

Not to mention it is clear now that Assad most likely did not use any WMD's. Putin, is reaching out for good measure. He is trying to enlighten the American people to stand up, for what is right.

Obummer and his goons are puppets, and all you supporters are just idjets.
WBraun

climber
Sep 12, 2013 - 11:14am PT
Forrest B. gets it completely.

NYT stupid puppet news organization which only fools follow them.

NYT is no better then fox news.

Americans are so brainwashed ......

(only 1 in ten here have a brain)
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Sep 12, 2013 - 11:23am PT
Americans have a hard time with humility. Americans have brains, unfortunately most feel they are superior to others. It is plain as day in this culture of IchMoi!
pc

climber
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Interesting points Forrest.

I wouldn't be so naďve though to think that Putin's control of industry and moves around these issues in general are for "good".

Take a look at recent findings around his net worth for ulterior motives.

It's a darn tough thing to balance democracy with free enterprise while trying to be a good citizen of the world.

We don't have it right. Putin certainly doesn't have it right.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
Putin has his own reasons for interjecting himself into our self-created quandary, and exactly zero of those reasons have anything to do with looking out for the best interests the Syrian people - or the Russian people, for that matter.

Same can be said for Obama, and the best interests of the American people.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
The UN has been a joke for some time now. The EU has just as much of a club to swing.

But I concur with much of what Putin stated. I havent since day 1 believed Assad would be stupid enough to gas his own people. Not because of caring for those people but rather the backlash from his SUPPORTERS like Russia and China and reactions totally predictable from the US and others. The fact that both sides are chucked full of turncoats and traitors is Syria doesnt make ANY evidence solid there.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
F*#k Puteeen.

Like that KGB nozzle has great concern and pretends to lecture us on our national interests.

F*#k Puteeen.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
Like our own jack wagon in chief wasnt chomping at the bit to launch rockets. And still is from what i see from his speeches.

Putin has helped make happen what the USA public has wanted in this case. Strange world indeed mama!!!

Now if your leaders can follow this up with obtaining OUR OWN gas/oil we could turn away from the ME never to be news in our headlines again. And wouldnt that be REFRESHING.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Sep 12, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
Like our own jack wagon in chief wasnt chomping at the bit to launch rockets.

Kinda like when Dirty Harry said "Go ahead, make my day..." ?

So did officer Callahan really want to shoot that guy?

Does it matter if he wanted to or not?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 12, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
I totally agree Forest B..... but.... I somehow doubt the former head of the KGB has any altruistic motives in mind.

But there is no comparison of Putin vs. the recent four terms of idiot puppets in the USSA. Two terms of someone too stupid to even read a teleprompter and the darker version of the same puppet who they've at least taught to read, but little else.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 12, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
Odd situation for sure. Im PROUD of Americans for standing up and making their opinions heard. This has had MUCH to do with the lack of missiles falling on Syria today.

And then there is Putin. That silly Rooskie. They watch and SEE what we Americans are thinking via this heer internet. I truly believe his article to us all reflects that well. He echoes what most of us thought from the start. We have YET to seen any CONCLUSIVE evidence of who gassed the innocent Syrians..

STILL cant believe the admin and their lightning quick discovery of the facts when a year later not ONE THING has been cleared up about BENGHAZI. Can any of you!?

I actually feel insulted by this administration for its thinking we Americans are THAT DUMB.
WBraun

climber
Sep 12, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
Yes these modern stupid American zombies and their bullsh!t lying news medias are a disgrace to humanity on this planet .....
ahad aham

Trad climber
Sep 12, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
obama? just a zionist tool

blame her
http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?sid=3&id=254604



the plan
http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0005345.html

wreck the middle east

btw; nsa has been handing over info on us citizens to a rogue state...under obama's watch

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/national-security-agency-gives-data-on-americans-to-the-israeli-government.html

Psilocyborg

climber
Sep 12, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
Nothing scare me more than the fact democrats and republicans suddenly banned together to attack syria. Really? They can't agree on anything, but they can come together at the drop of the hat for this??

If you are a republican or democrat, you are a moron.

Lets rid our country of these f*#ks!!! They are destroying us!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 12, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
thank YOU,, registered independent here.
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Sep 12, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
[ ] the fact democrats and republicans suddenly banned together to attack syria. Really?

No, not really. That's not what happened at all.
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