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Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Sep 10, 2013 - 10:50am PT
Funny the timing on this "russian proposal" I'm sure American diplomacy had nothing to do with it.

I'm sure it was about to happen weeks ago long before this situation arose.

Or mebbe just mebbe it is happenning because of US pressure...


No new war yet.. lotsa saber rattling and if lucky this will go through as a solid US victory (really a world victory against chem warfare) without us firing ONE ACTUAL SHOT!

Doesn't get much better than that.

I don't even like Obama .. but mebbe more today than yesterday.

Maybe he's lucky or maybe he and the state department are brilliant.. either way

I really hope this goes through.

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:01am PT
The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are marginalized by corporations that buy votes for a living.

Cragman, fixed that for you.

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:02am PT
Putin threw the fast curve ball

If BHO continues to push for a strike, look for a nice display table a'la a Bloomberg gun control rant with all the weaponry bearing Benghazi return addresses.
sandstone conglomerate

sharon conglomerate central
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:07am PT
All those cool tools they can't use on the Syrians now...the military-industrial complex must be grinding its collective teeth.

Sep 10, 2013 - 11:11am PT
Hedge just proved his own legacy again by wandering aimlessly in the woods stepping into the quicksand and sinking fast ......

Big Wall climber
Sep 10, 2013 - 11:32am PT
= bad choice


Sep 10, 2013 - 11:50am PT
you guys are so cynical. F*#king hell.

I see this as an incredible US Foreign Service coup. Russia has been a total antagonist all along. Now suddenly they're standing beside the US and others when talking to Syria?

Only political knobs will see this as a defeat of any kind for the US/current administration.


Sep 10, 2013 - 11:59am PT
You wingnuts are so diseased you're probably hoping the diplomacy/rhetoric will fail just to show Obama failed. If you're rooting against Obama and Kerry here you're f*#king traitors.

Now that Russia is in game they bring a really potent set of potential sanctions against Assad. We don't have many teeth left except bombs but Russia does.


Sep 10, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
Boy are you ever stupid ^^^^^

Sep 10, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
Boy are you ever stupid Hedge ^^^^^^^

Sep 10, 2013 - 12:17pm PT

I can't take that approach. I see this as potentially the best thing that could happen for Democrats and Republicans. Americans. If conflict can be avoided everyone wins.


edit: Except the military industrial complex. They're the jackasses we should be keeping an eye on here...
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Sep 10, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
So what do you make of black Republicans Locker? Are they just really confused and don't realize that Republicans hate them?
patrick compton

Trad climber
Sep 10, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
irony: Rong telling Locker to pull head out of ass

Bama has played his hand and it is a win-win:

Dont bomb Syria: win: Repubs cant say Dems are military weak in 2014

Bomb Syria: instant war president! See Bushes for how war covers a multude of incompetency.

watching Rebuplicans play hippy peacenik: priceless

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 10, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Sep 10, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
Your right Norton, there are few Republican blacks. So what? Point is your party has no problem labeling them "Uncle Toms" if they deviate from the way they are "supposed" to think. That is the point. There are more than you think, but they are shut down and insulted for not following the Democrat party line. I see it happen in the Latino Community too.

Dear Democrats
An Open Letter to the Democratic Party
By Lt. Colonel Frances Rice, U.S. Army (Retired)

"We, African American citizens of the United States, declare and assert:

Whereas in the early 1600's 20 African men and women were landed in Virginia from a Dutch ship as slaves and from that tiny seed grew the poisoned fruit of plantation slavery which shaped the course of American development,

Whereas reconciliation and healing always begin with an apology and an effort to repay those who have been wronged,

Whereas the Democratic Party has never apologized for their horrific atrocities and racist practices committed against African Americans during the past two hundred years, nor for the residual impact that those atrocities and practices and current soft bigotry of low expectations are having on us today,

Whereas the Democratic Party fought to expand slavery and, after the Civil War, established Jim Crow Laws, Black Codes and other repressive legislation that were designed to disenfranchise African Americans,

Whereas the Ku Klux Klan was the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party, and their primary goal was to intimidate and terrorize African American voters, Republicans who moved South to protect African Americans and any other whites who supported them,

Whereas, according to leading historians (both black and white), the horrific atrocities committed against African Americans during slavery and Reconstruction were financed, sponsored, and promoted by the Democratic Party and their Ku Klux Klan supporters,

Whereas from 1870 to 1930, in an effort to deny African Americans their civil rights and to keep African Americans from voting Republican, thousands of African Americans were shot, beaten, lynched, mutilated, and burned to death by Ku Klux Klan terrorists from the Democratic Party,

Whereas Democratic Presidents Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry Truman rejected anti-lynching laws and efforts to establish a permanent Civil Rights Commission,

Whereas the Democratic party has used racist demagoguery to deceive African Americans about the history of the Republican Party that: (a) started as the anti-slavery party in 1854, (b) fought to free African Americans from slavery, (c) designed Reconstruction, a ten-year period of unprecedented political power for African Americans, (d) passed the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth Amendments to the U. S. Constitution granting African Americans freedom, citizenship, and the right to vote, (e) passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 granting African Americans protection from the Black Codes and prohibiting racial discrimination in public accommodations, (f) passed the Civil Rights Act of 1957 and the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1965 granting African Americans protection from the Jim Crow laws, (g) established Affirmative Action programs to help African Americans proper with Republican President Richard Nixon's 1969 Philadelphia Plan that set the first goals and timetables and his 1972 Equal Employment Opportunity Act that made Affirmative Action Programs the law of our nation, and (h) never sponsored or launched a program, passed laws, or engaged in practices that resulted in the death of millions of African Americans,

Whereas Brown vs. the Board of Education of Topeka (a 1954 decision by Chief Justice Earl Warren who was appointed by Republican President Dwight Eisenhower) was a landmark civil rights case that was designed to overturn the racist practices that were established by the Democratic Party,

Whereas after Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt received the vote of African Americans, he banned African American newspapers from the military shortly after taking office because he was convinced the newspapers were communists,

Whereas Democratic President John F. Kennedy voted against the 1957 Civil Rights Law, opposed the 1963 March on Washington by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and was later criticized by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. for ignoring civil rights issues.

Whereas Democratic President John F. Kennedy authorized the FBI (supervised by his brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy) to investigate Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. on suspicion of being a communist,

Whereas Democratic Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, a former member of the Ku Klux Klan, made a 14-hour filibuster speech in the Senate in June 1964 in an unsuccessful effort to block passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and was heralded in April 2004 by Democratic Senator Christopher Dodd as a senator who would have been a great leader during the Civil War,

Whereas when the 1964 Civil Rights Act came up for vote, Senator Al Gore, Sr. and the rest of the Southern Democrats voted against the bill,

Whereas in the House of Representatives only 61 percent of the Democrats voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act as compared to 80 percent of Republicans, and in the Senate only 69 percent of the Democrats voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act, compared to 82 percent of the Republicans,

Whereas Democratic President Bill Clinton sent troops to Europe to protect the citizens of Bosnia and Kosovo while allowing an estimated 800,000 black Rwandans to be massacred in Africa, vetoed the welfare reform law twice before signing it, and refused to comply with a court order to have shipping companies develop an Affirmative Action Plan,

Whereas Democratic presidential candidate Al Gore created harmful racial division when he falsely claimed that the 2000 presidential election was "stolen" from him and that African Americans in Florida were disenfranchised, even though a second recount of Florida votes by the "Miami Herald" and a consortium of major news organizations confirmed that he lost the election, and a ruling by the U.S. Civil Rights Commission declared that African Americans were not denied the right to vote,

Whereas the Democratic Party's soft bigotry of low expectations and social promotions have consigned African Americans to economic bondage and created a culture of dependency on government social programs,

Whereas the Democratic Party's use of deception and fear to block welfare reform, the faith-based initiative and school choice that would help African Americans prosper is consistent with the Democratic Party's heritage of racism that included sanctioning of slavery and kukluxery, a perversion of moral sentiment among leaders of the Democratic Party whose racist legacy bode ill until this generation of African Americans,

Now, therefore, for the above and other documented atrocities and accumulated wrongs inflicted upon African Americans, we demand a formal written apology and other appropriate remuneration from the leadership of the Democratic party

Edit: As I mentioned Norton. I know there is still racism in this country, I'm not saying it does not exist, but are we really getting anywhere when we make sh#t up that does not exist or exaggerate stuff? It really is hard for Dems to realize there are black republicans, why is that? Do they not have a right to think what they want? Or is the belief, that the Republican party is so racist you do not see how it is possible?


Sep 10, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
Ron wrote, "They DIDNT write their reps saying hell no. On that you may rely.."

You're wrong there. My brother and I both wrote our reps saying "don't do it"

And we're both fairly left dems.

Not sure where you're getting your info from but none of my dem friends want to drop bombs...

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
patrick compton

Trad climber
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
This thread has been "Ron'd". Think about it: we are debating US foreign policy with Ron, with Werner chiming in.

Can there be a more useless activity?

Lol. yes!

An equally useless activity is reading Rong's 'ethical' thread bombs. boltz iz bad, trad was only good in the 80s... blah, (fart)

there is no discussion with El Ronito. He iz rite, all da time!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
I'm glad no American Bombs are falling on Damascus. President Obama electing to not throw deadly rocks over the fence is encouraging... for the moment.


Sep 10, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
This recent action by the Soviets is noteworthy in that, it at least seems, we were in a bigger bind than were they. In light of this it is worth the time to read Frank von Hippel's account of how nuclear reductions were achieved during Gorbachev's term in office. von Hippel discusses how the technical and governmental people in Russia worked with their counterparts to explore the options available.

It is just possible we can benefit by modifying somewhat the thought processes we adopted during the cold war.

Based upon the horrific struggle conducted by the Soviets at Stalingrad to defeat Hitler's 6th army, the destruction of their land, and their twenty million dead provides the rationale for their forming buffer states and suggests, now that Stalin and Khrushchev are both dead, that the people over there are not anxious for more war. My neighbor was just over there expecting to see people courageously enduring a poverty and a discouragement not seen anywhere else. He found people pursuing the good life much as it is pursued here.

These are trends we would be foolish to ignore completely.

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