Big Trouble In Little Grotto (On-Topic)


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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
Thanks for the considerate responses

and not so much for the others.

Hawkeye, you forgot littering

when we left the card at the top of Mox Peak.

You have remembered it before.

Gotta stay on your game, Pal - you are losing the comprehensive element of your obsession.

Joke's on you.
Joke's on you.
Credit: MisterE

Ghost, I haven't kept up on the WCC stuff for a few years...what's going on? I should have gotten a hit from Matt Perkins?

As Skip pointed out, I am married to a "Hispanic". Try being less reactive - it helps your active life.

Edit: Haha! Thanks BJ. Nicely timed - cheers. :)
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Aug 22, 2013 - 12:57am PT
The Maid is of Hispanic heritage?!

I though she was full blood muppet.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Aug 22, 2013 - 09:34am PT
she says she was ridiculed by her cousins for throwing trash in a trashcan and for cleaning up after a picnic on the East Fork of the San Gabriel River several years ago.

Took the family to Point Dune a few months back. At the base of the cliff there was a large family with a full stock of beach picnic stuff: a cheap BBQ just out of the box, various dollar store beach toys, paper plates ... lots of stuff.

Later in the afternoon we noticed they weren't around anymore. All their stuff was just laying there, the BBQ was still there, the box was flapping in the wind. You could have filled an entire curbside garbage can with all this stuff, and they just left it right on the edge of the water on one of the most beautiful beaches.

Sure I've seen people litter, been to third world countries, but this was still a WTF moment for me.

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 22, 2013 - 09:38am PT
"Full blood Muppet"

Ok, that right there was funny, I don't care who you are!

Jim Henson's Basement
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:17am PT
Oh.. there are Hispanic Muppets. Picture of my cousin Butcho...

Credit: justthemaid

@Dave.. I've seen that a few times at Malibu Creek. Entire picnic laid out.. plates, plastic utensils, soda bottles, wrappers partially eaten food even the paper picnic blanket left behind after the family is long gone. Always a head-scratcher WTF.


Mountain climber
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:30am PT
same happens on Tahoe beaches. visitors come and leave plastic cups and all kinds of crap floating in the water. serious wtf moment if people can't realize how wrong that is.

i personally think the situation was handled about as well as possible. lack of environmental stewardship transcends ethnicities.

a buddy of mine was backpacking in one of the few wilderness areas east of the MS with his little brother and sister out on a peninsula on a reservoir one night. right about the time they went to sleep a boat pulled up about 100' away, soon, loud country music blared from boombox and shortly thereafter, a chainsaw was started and trees were felled for their gasoline fueled fire. he was trying to introduce his siblings to backpacking, didn't turn out so well.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:35am PT
I blame the Spaniards and the catholic church ;-).


Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:58am PT
I'm glad the cool heads won the day, and things didn't escalate past conversation.

Me, whenever I'm in a situation where I'm going to drop a dime, or beat someone's ass, one thing I don't ever do is telegraph my intentions. Cop calls and ass whooping is at its effective best when it's a surprise for those on the receiving end.

Even though I come from a line of educators, my educating skills are sorely lacking, and I would only be making things worse by trying to set people straight myself. Gots to know my limitations.

Crazy Bat

Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
Aug 22, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
With the Rim fire going this thread takes on a whole new meaning.

In 1976 I was with a group from my high school at a lakeside park here in Alabama. One of the kids said "this used to be such a nice place" as he tossed his beer can into the woods. I asked him to describe what was different. He got it and got up and started picking up trash.

In another conversation my father pointed out that when he was a kid all the trash you tossed went away. Glass broke, cans rusted and there wasn't all this disposable plastic stuff that doesn't degrade.

Glad things worked out.

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 22, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
I blame the Spaniards and the catholic church ;-).

Yep. This is all the result of the state doing something that should have remained privatized!



Aug 22, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
My trash camper experience.

We had my sonís fifth B-Day party at a small campsite in McCain Valley in the mountains of San Diego. We had about five families with us, including grandma whose last time camping was years and years ago. In our group are about 10-kids, most 5 to 6 some 8 or 9, including the parents.

We showed up Thursday and had the entire place for ourselves. We took a large space so our party could all fit. The next day another group of about 6 men and a young teenage boy show up and make camp directly next to us. The immediately crank-up their Sirius Radio with the comedy channel on, Raw Dog, the channel with adult language, and have it at full blast. F-bombs echo all over the campground. Many cases of beer are removed from their truck and their drinking begins. Guns come out. Within an hour there was a huge raging fire (there was a fire restriction in place), they were drunk, they were walking around with their guns, etc. Grand ma was freaked. I talked to one of the guys but I could tell it was in vain.
We all moved our camp to get away, but not far enough.

As night fell their drinking increased as was evidenced by the now larger fire, the cranked to 11 music, gunshots, and yelling. As our group was settling in to sleep around 10, it was apparent that a severe fight was occurring in their camp. I was hoping they would beat themselves senseless but got really concerned when I heard one of the men tell the teenager something like, I just beat the sh#t out of your dad, I am going to throw you in this f-en fire and kill you next. The guy was dead serious and it was not a fun thing to have to listen to. Crying and yelling ensue until I hear the kid tell the guy to get away from him or he would shoot him. My wife is now crying so I get up and go over to see what I can do to get the kid safe. I was freaking scared out of my mind. There were two guys on the ground passed out and beat senseless, one guy by the fire all bloody, one majorly drunk big dude amped up because he just destroyed his camp mates, the other guys just doing nothing, and then the kid with the gun. I beat around the bush and tried to entertain the big drunk dude. I walked up with a beer in hand hoping they would not be all pissed if I too was drinking. After some time, the drunk dude sits down and starts to forget what had just happened. I talk to the least drunk of the men and ask for them to just keep it quiet, I tell the kid to either come with me or go and hide. It all seemed to work out but my wife is still really afraid for the kid.

In the morning we find the kid hiding in a rock outcrop. We tell the kid to hide all day and we bring him food and water. This kid is scared senseless.

As I go into town to call police, I run luckily into the only BLM ranger who has to patrol all of the land out there and in the Valley. I stop him and give him the low down. He calls sheriffs and they begin to stake out their camp looking for whatever violations they can. Pretty funny seeing these guys stalk through the bush with their rifles. In meantime we go and get the kid and deliver him to the sheriff, who then takes kid back to his home. Never seen a kid so happy.

The BLM dude finally sees enough and approaches their camp with rifles aimed. I was surprised that they were not taken away but in the end they had to spill out all their beer, put out the smoldering fire, promise to be good etc. All guns were confiscated as far as I could tell. The BLM guy was pretty rookie but whatever, the kid was safe. I was concerned that they would retaliate but nothing came of it.
My wife refuses to return to that camp.

Trad climber
Aug 22, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
Plastic Mullet,

That is one of the reasons I own a old Land Rover, my wife refuses to camp anywhere the general public can get to easily. We typically camp several miles out in the middle of the middle of nowhere on old BLM or NFS 4x4 roads. The further off the beaten path the better.

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 22, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
You wouldn't believe how many times I had to deal with LOUD campers during my time as a Fed.

I wasn't LEO. . . so my power was. . . well. . . non-existent! (although I did have a radio to call for back-up)

BUT. . . what usually worked was just quietly walking up to the noisy, unruly site and making eye contact with one person. . .then, with a BIG ASS SMILE ON MY FACE, using an index finger, I'd do that "hey. . . come here" sign. . . and usually that person would walk out into the street to see WTH the LadyRanger wanted.

As soon as they approached me, I'd slowly start walking away from the site. . . with a little nod for them to come with. . . (at this point - they're buyin' into me). . . when we'd get a little ways away from the site, I'd point at their site, c*#k my head like a little puppy and ask. . . "Hear that?"

Then I'd motion at all the other sites, full of campers quietly going about their camper stuff. . . and I'd say something to the effect of . . . "You guys are harshin' these people's mellow!"

That's usually all it took.

Sometimes. . . no. . . most of the time, we, anthropologically speaking, are so self-centered, we don't know how obnoxious we're being. . . and all it takes is a gentle awakening.

Sometimes it takes more.



Jim Henson's Basement
Sep 4, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Some pics I snapped last weekend ...

Aside from the fire danger potential, it looks like most of the destruction was random machete-chopping and carving. The trees should survive.. with a few battle scars. The huge pile of debris that was piled on the trail has been cleared to the sides. Some burned rocks were kicked down in the stream bed too.

Severed limb
Severed limb
Credit: justthemaid

Hacked tree.
Hacked tree.
Credit: justthemaid

Fire pit under low-lying trees.
Fire pit under low-lying trees.
Credit: justthemaid

Another hacked tree.
Another hacked tree.
Credit: justthemaid

A few small trees got decapitated.
A few small trees got decapitated.
Credit: justthemaid

Worst/stupidest thing is this:

Graffitied tree.
Graffitied tree.
Credit: justthemaid


Need I say "meh"?


Sep 4, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
I agree it's senseless, but to be fair, I've seen a lot of climbing areas where climbers have done worse.

Jim Henson's Basement
Sep 4, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
Yup- Climbers can do worse for sure. A lot of trees and bushes were cleared at the base of the climbing cliffs. Just seemed pretty weird and random.

Speaking of destructive climbers...A buddy of mine was at Stoney Point last week and witnessed some boulderers tagging rocks with spraypaint in between projects. Don't really expect that crap from climbers. If I'd been there, their mug-shots would be plastered all over Pyro's thread so the trad-daddies could give them a beat down if they showed their faces again.

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
A buddy of mine was at Stoney Point last week and witnessed some boulderers tagging rocks with spraypaint in between projects


Let me know, please.... PM works.

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
I saw this campfire high in the San Gabriels last week. Gee, what could possibly go wrong here? And there were any number of similar ones within a 100 yard radius.

Now that thruhiking the PCT has become so popular, there has been a big increase in the number of illegal fire pits in SoCal. More than a couple of forest fires have been started by thrus. Their alcohol stoves can be quite dangerous as they have no shutoff valves.

If you hike the PCT, you'll see these illegal fire pits in spots only PCTers would camp. The same up in the Sierra, as well.

They're also leaving big messes at the water caches, it can be quite disgusting.

A pile of dirt.
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:36pm PT

Need I say "meh"?

Sadly they may have been saying "meth"

Jim Henson's Basement
Nov 17, 2013 - 09:22pm PT

It happened AGAIN last week!!

This time it was f*#king climbers. Another fire, another encampment. More bushes cut and trampled to clear more space. Climbers should know better. I seriously don't get the fire-thing. They put it out when someone said something. People are so clueless. It's suicide if an ember blows into the brush down there.

Gotta rant here... there's been more destructive behavior down there this one year than I've seen in the past 10 years. Camping, fires, graffiti, and a whole pile of new random unnecessary trail-cutting causing new erosion issues. I hate to be the harpy but I'm just feeling really pissed off about all this today.

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