Big Trouble In Little Grotto (On-Topic)


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Aug 21, 2013 - 08:51am PT
Tweakers and pot growers do exist, and should be considered a danger. But in reality how many people are killed or disappeared because of these folks? I bet not many, but it sure makes good fodder for the media, and for Rush, the mom's at soccer, O'Reilly and anyone else who wants to be afraid.

I'm sorry my joke about movie action heroes like Chuck Norris and Steven Seagal bothered you so, and distracted you from worrying about stuff.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
Aug 21, 2013 - 09:02am PT
Credit: Global Warning III

Jim Henson's Basement
Aug 21, 2013 - 09:18am PT

I don't believe we can rely on Stephen to karate-chop any terrorists for us at present.

Aug 21, 2013 - 09:47am PT
Do dogs have to be on a leash, or do they need to be "under control"?

But it sounds like neither was the case here.

Jim Henson's Basement
Aug 21, 2013 - 10:52am PT
Dogs are supposed to be on a leash at all times in this particular park. Once you get a ways from the road it's difficult to enforce and a lot of people let them run loose.

The dog being off the leash conversation with the ranger was sort of funny at the time... just a week before we were chatting and he was rolling his eyes about the kazillion "OMG!!!someones dog is off the leash" phone calls he gets every weekend.

This dog owner was having to bear-hug his pit with full body weight to keep it away from me... all the while telling me how "friendly" it was.

Edit to add: in defense of a couple of the campers.. the first two I ran into were actually very polite. It was their buddies that woke up later that started rabble-rousing.

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 11:29am PT
Yikes! I would not want to try my chances to outrun a fire in that terrain. Pretty much impossible, better luck trying to get in the middle of a big rock and hope for the best.

Glad you didn't get in a face-to-face showdown with the folks.

I must admit I thought this was going to be about a climbing epic on AC Devildog or something at Table Mountain near Jamestown.

Trad climber
Aug 21, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
Nuthing wrong with saying hispanic, it's just stating a fact. In the greater Los Angeles area the hispanic community takes full advantage of the surrounding wilderness. Some do it in a more responsible manner than others just like some white folks. The problem is cultural, I spoke with a hispanic friend of mine last week about the vast amounts of trash and literal crap in the San Gabriel River drainage and she told me it is a cultural issue, she says she was ridiculed by her cousins for throwing trash in a trashcan and for cleaning up after a picnic on the East Fork of the San Gabriel River several years ago. I used to kayak the West Fork and East Fork of the San Gabriel River and witnessed firsthand BBQ's being dumped in the river, diapers thrown in the river and kids spray painting on the rocks as I floated by. I was reluctant to speak up because frankly I'm a bit of a wuss and was an easy target floating down the river. Speaking with a ranger afterward he said that it's just the way it is and all they can do is try and educate. I have a feeling that the next generation wont treat the environment quite as bad and am hopeful it is true.
This is not just a hispanic problem, if you head over to the East Fork you will find plenty of white redneck hillbilies tossing trash in the river and digging up the river looking for gold.

As Skip stated, the fire is the main issue. We are in a critical situation in So Cal in regards to fire threat. I'm heading to the Sierras next week and the last thing I need is to be recalled back to work because some knucklehead decided to have a campfire on a 100 degree day.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
I can only add that one should assume some of these fools had firearms with them.

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
The fire there, together with a seemingly hostile group of people, certainly would have terrified me if I were alone. I hope that the actions of the campers arose from ignorance that gets corrected as time passes. I fear, however, that the campers will simply ascribe the incident to innate hostility of the authorities and/or the climbers.

I have to agree that certain socioeconomic strata of certain ethnic groups have a culture of outdoor use vastly different from mine. Sad to say, though, the culture of "The rules don't apply to me. I'll do what I want." transcends easy socioeconomic categorization. Reading the threads that attempt to deal with climbing ethics should convince the reader of this. If nothing else, the facts you set forth in this thread stand as a reminder of why the mountains still need LEO's.



between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
Aug 21, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
The approach now entails about an extra 800 vertical feet of road hiking.

Horrors. Guess you'll have to buy a Segway.

Santa Monica, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
I'm not ok with them camping at Ecko - it's illegal for one thing. And Skip is right - had they started a fire they most likely would have perished there.

The mess caused by so-called "cultural differences" and/or just plain old idiots in the Angeles National Forest, San Bernardinos, San Gabriels and all over So. Cal is atrocious. Unfortunately there isn't enough money for the "authorities" to properly fight or regulate it. It's incredibly frustrating.

The Granite State.
Aug 21, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
Have Y'all read Tortilla Curtain by TC Boyle?

Not that this is the same story, but it seems relevant in this context.

Give it a try, it's a powerful novel.
Timid TopRope

Social climber
'used to be Paradise, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
When I read the OP, Tortilla Curtain was the first thing that popped in my head.

Around here it's poor white folks and plain stupid white folks trashing the forests and creeks.

Aug 21, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
Glad it all ended well Skip. As far as them being Mexican, stupidity follows all races. This kind of thing (having a campfire during fire season on a hot day) is usually overweight white people who listen to country music. Commonly derided as "rednecks". I normally live and let live too, but sometimes you can't walk away from angry stupidity. At least they weren't slamming their empty beer bottles down on the rocks after downing them (short version: local f*#khead Russians).

They could have been nice and listened, and their day would have been much better.

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 21, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
I have to agree that certain socioeconomic strata of certain ethnic groups have a culture of outdoor use vastly different from mine.

John.... true but it was not always so.

I was just a kid at the time but I remember Lady Bird Johnson and her "clean up America campain" or something like that.

I think about 99% of America was tossing trash and all sorts of stuff out into the environment.

All of the PSA adds and becoming a Boy Scout helped me change my attitude about tossing trash, cleaning up after others and becoming a steward of our landscape.

I think it would be a good thing to re-start these kinds of programs....
We could start by taking $$$$$$$ from the NSA.

Oh yea.... SKIP. THX for standing up, it took guts.

Jim Henson's Basement
Aug 21, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
I didn't actually "stand up".. it was another climber that actually spoke to them and made the call before I had a chance...

I didn't say nothin'... just gave them a polite chit chat so that I could sneak off to rat on them behind their backs.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Aug 21, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
LA has a huge immigrant population that never received the education we locals got in the 1960s. Prior to the "Crying Indian" commercial pretty much everyone was trashing everything.

These newcomers need the same program. I don't think that today's land managers have figured this out.

Also, a campaign needs to be done to redefine "camping." To some in means total anarchy and trashing the land, burning weird crap, firing weapons, getting ripping drunk, blasting amplified music.

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 21, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
These newcomers need the same program. I don't think that today's land managers have figured this out.

Spider... bingo.


State of Mine
Aug 21, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
can count at least five violations:

1. Illegal camping
2. Unpermitted fire
3. Off-leash dog
4. Defacing Forest Service Land
5. Illegal vegetation cutting

wasnt it you ewolfe, who carried a machete into a national park to help the approach out? is that not defacing? if i recall you guys had a fire in your TR, was that permitted in the North Cascades?

and god forbid a climber would let their dog run around! the horror!

OTOH if it were friends of yours camping out there and the rangers wrote them up for all this crap we would be seeing a tooling thread no doubt.


Santa Monica, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 05:39pm PT

Regardless of what some of you are pissed at E for, this is/was still a big problem.

Yes - the Iron Eyes Cody commercials. Those were pretty effective actually. A campaign is needed again and probably won't happen.

Messages 21 - 40 of total 63 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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