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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Aug 21, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
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Have Y'all read Tortilla Curtain by TC Boyle?
Not that this is the same story, but it seems relevant in this context.
Give it a try, it's a powerful novel.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 21, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
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Glad it all ended well Skip. As far as them being Mexican, stupidity follows all races. This kind of thing (having a campfire during fire season on a hot day) is usually overweight white people who listen to country music. Commonly derided as "rednecks". I normally live and let live too, but sometimes you can't walk away from angry stupidity. At least they weren't slamming their empty beer bottles down on the rocks after downing them (short version: local f*#khead Russians).
They could have been nice and listened, and their day would have been much better.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Aug 21, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
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I have to agree that certain socioeconomic strata of certain ethnic groups have a culture of outdoor use vastly different from mine.
John.... true but it was not always so.
I was just a kid at the time but I remember Lady Bird Johnson and her "clean up America campain" or something like that.
I think about 99% of America was tossing trash and all sorts of stuff out into the environment.
All of the PSA adds and becoming a Boy Scout helped me change my attitude about tossing trash, cleaning up after others and becoming a steward of our landscape.
I think it would be a good thing to re-start these kinds of programs....
We could start by taking $$$$$$$ from the NSA.
Oh yea.... SKIP. THX for standing up, it took guts.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Aug 21, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
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I didn't actually "stand up".. it was another climber that actually spoke to them and made the call before I had a chance...
I didn't say nothin'... just gave them a polite chit chat so that I could sneak off to rat on them behind their backs.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Aug 21, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
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LA has a huge immigrant population that never received the education we locals got in the 1960s. Prior to the "Crying Indian" commercial pretty much everyone was trashing everything.
These newcomers need the same program. I don't think that today's land managers have figured this out.
Also, a campaign needs to be done to redefine "camping." To some in means total anarchy and trashing the land, burning weird crap, firing weapons, getting ripping drunk, blasting amplified music.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Aug 21, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
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These newcomers need the same program. I don't think that today's land managers have figured this out.
Spider... bingo.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 21, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
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can count at least five violations:
1. Illegal camping
2. Unpermitted fire
3. Off-leash dog
4. Defacing Forest Service Land
5. Illegal vegetation cutting
wasnt it you ewolfe, who carried a machete into a national park to help the approach out? is that not defacing? if i recall you guys had a fire in your TR, was that permitted in the North Cascades?
and god forbid a climber would let their dog run around! the horror!
OTOH if it were friends of yours camping out there and the rangers wrote them up for all this crap we would be seeing a tooling thread no doubt.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Aug 21, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
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Well,
Regardless of what some of you are pissed at E for, this is/was still a big problem.
Yes - the Iron Eyes Cody commercials. Those were pretty effective actually. A campaign is needed again and probably won't happen.
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Leggs
Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
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Aug 21, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
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I didn't say nothin'... just gave them a polite chit chat so that I could sneak off to rat on them behind their backs
That sounds about right.
~peace
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MisterE
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
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Thanks for the considerate responses
and not so much for the others.
Hawkeye, you forgot littering
when we left the card at the top of Mox Peak.
You have remembered it before.
Gotta stay on your game, Pal - you are losing the comprehensive element of your obsession.
Ghost, I haven't kept up on the WCC stuff for a few years...what's going on? I should have gotten a hit from Matt Perkins?
As Skip pointed out, I am married to a "Hispanic". Try being less reactive - it helps your active life.
Edit: Haha! Thanks BJ. Nicely timed - cheers. :)
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Aug 22, 2013 - 12:57am PT
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The Maid is of Hispanic heritage?!
I though she was full blood muppet.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Aug 22, 2013 - 09:38am PT
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"Full blood Muppet"
Ok, that right there was funny, I don't care who you are!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Aug 22, 2013 - 11:17am PT
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Oh.. there are Hispanic Muppets. Picture of my cousin Butcho...
@Dave.. I've seen that a few times at Malibu Creek. Entire picnic laid out.. plates, plastic utensils, soda bottles, wrappers partially eaten food even the paper picnic blanket left behind after the family is long gone. Always a head-scratcher WTF.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
California
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Aug 22, 2013 - 11:30am PT
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same happens on Tahoe beaches. visitors come and leave plastic cups and all kinds of crap floating in the water. serious wtf moment if people can't realize how wrong that is.
i personally think the situation was handled about as well as possible. lack of environmental stewardship transcends ethnicities.
a buddy of mine was backpacking in one of the few wilderness areas east of the MS with his little brother and sister out on a peninsula on a reservoir one night. right about the time they went to sleep a boat pulled up about 100' away, soon, loud country music blared from boombox and shortly thereafter, a chainsaw was started and trees were felled for their gasoline fueled fire. he was trying to introduce his siblings to backpacking, didn't turn out so well.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Aug 22, 2013 - 11:58am PT
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I'm glad the cool heads won the day, and things didn't escalate past conversation.
Me, whenever I'm in a situation where I'm going to drop a dime, or beat someone's ass, one thing I don't ever do is telegraph my intentions. Cop calls and ass whooping is at its effective best when it's a surprise for those on the receiving end.
Even though I come from a line of educators, my educating skills are sorely lacking, and I would only be making things worse by trying to set people straight myself. Gots to know my limitations.
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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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Aug 22, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
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With the Rim fire going this thread takes on a whole new meaning.
In 1976 I was with a group from my high school at a lakeside park here in Alabama. One of the kids said "this used to be such a nice place" as he tossed his beer can into the woods. I asked him to describe what was different. He got it and got up and started picking up trash.
In another conversation my father pointed out that when he was a kid all the trash you tossed went away. Glass broke, cans rusted and there wasn't all this disposable plastic stuff that doesn't degrade.
Glad things worked out.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 22, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
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I blame the Spaniards and the catholic church ;-).
Yep. This is all the result of the state doing something that should have remained privatized!
;>)
John
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plasticmullet
climber
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Aug 22, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
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My trash camper experience.
We had my son’s fifth B-Day party at a small campsite in McCain Valley in the mountains of San Diego. We had about five families with us, including grandma whose last time camping was years and years ago. In our group are about 10-kids, most 5 to 6 some 8 or 9, including the parents.
We showed up Thursday and had the entire place for ourselves. We took a large space so our party could all fit. The next day another group of about 6 men and a young teenage boy show up and make camp directly next to us. The immediately crank-up their Sirius Radio with the comedy channel on, Raw Dog, the channel with adult language, and have it at full blast. F-bombs echo all over the campground. Many cases of beer are removed from their truck and their drinking begins. Guns come out. Within an hour there was a huge raging fire (there was a fire restriction in place), they were drunk, they were walking around with their guns, etc. Grand ma was freaked. I talked to one of the guys but I could tell it was in vain.
We all moved our camp to get away, but not far enough.
As night fell their drinking increased as was evidenced by the now larger fire, the cranked to 11 music, gunshots, and yelling. As our group was settling in to sleep around 10, it was apparent that a severe fight was occurring in their camp. I was hoping they would beat themselves senseless but got really concerned when I heard one of the men tell the teenager something like, I just beat the sh#t out of your dad, I am going to throw you in this f-en fire and kill you next. The guy was dead serious and it was not a fun thing to have to listen to. Crying and yelling ensue until I hear the kid tell the guy to get away from him or he would shoot him. My wife is now crying so I get up and go over to see what I can do to get the kid safe. I was freaking scared out of my mind. There were two guys on the ground passed out and beat senseless, one guy by the fire all bloody, one majorly drunk big dude amped up because he just destroyed his camp mates, the other guys just doing nothing, and then the kid with the gun. I beat around the bush and tried to entertain the big drunk dude. I walked up with a beer in hand hoping they would not be all pissed if I too was drinking. After some time, the drunk dude sits down and starts to forget what had just happened. I talk to the least drunk of the men and ask for them to just keep it quiet, I tell the kid to either come with me or go and hide. It all seemed to work out but my wife is still really afraid for the kid.
In the morning we find the kid hiding in a rock outcrop. We tell the kid to hide all day and we bring him food and water. This kid is scared senseless.
As I go into town to call police, I run luckily into the only BLM ranger who has to patrol all of the land out there and in the Valley. I stop him and give him the low down. He calls sheriffs and they begin to stake out their camp looking for whatever violations they can. Pretty funny seeing these guys stalk through the bush with their rifles. In meantime we go and get the kid and deliver him to the sheriff, who then takes kid back to his home. Never seen a kid so happy.
The BLM dude finally sees enough and approaches their camp with rifles aimed. I was surprised that they were not taken away but in the end they had to spill out all their beer, put out the smoldering fire, promise to be good etc. All guns were confiscated as far as I could tell. The BLM guy was pretty rookie but whatever, the kid was safe. I was concerned that they would retaliate but nothing came of it.
My wife refuses to return to that camp.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Aug 22, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
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Plastic Mullet,
That is one of the reasons I own a old Land Rover, my wife refuses to camp anywhere the general public can get to easily. We typically camp several miles out in the middle of the middle of nowhere on old BLM or NFS 4x4 roads. The further off the beaten path the better.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Some pics I snapped last weekend ...
Aside from the fire danger potential, it looks like most of the destruction was random machete-chopping and carving. The trees should survive.. with a few battle scars. The huge pile of debris that was piled on the trail has been cleared to the sides. Some burned rocks were kicked down in the stream bed too.
Worst/stupidest thing is this:
Brainiacks^^^
Need I say "meh"?
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